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  #41  
Old 08-23-2006, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
Something superficial - I personally am a little bored with being exposed to Maxima as if I were her dental hygenist- can she not smile without showing us her tonsils and what is more the calm regal baby that Amelia was (impressive at her baptism) is now turning into Mini-Max. The latest photo shoot with the Japanese royals showed a difference in the regalness of the two crown princes' families. Come on Beatrix- you are in charge and I really like you, can't you have a better influence over your adult family or do we see Maxima's influence at the fore now?




As stated in a post earlier in this thread, also Princess Beatrix was very much a lady showing a big smile from ear-to-ear. Even now and then she falls out her role as the dignified, distant and aloof Beatrix Regina.

As Princess she was nicknamed 'Princess Smile', for her ever-and-always joyful smile or even laughter. As a Queen she suddenly became much more distant, as if she feels the weight of the kingship on her shoulders.

The same will happen with Princess Máxima. Now she is the young and popular Princess with two adorable daughters. In the future she is the Consort to His Majesty. She will feel the weight of her spouse's kingship as well. Prince Willem-Alexander said that he hoped the royal life would not change 'the Máxima on which I became so in love with'.
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  #42  
Old 08-23-2006, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana

I agree with Princess Olga. I suppose the huge support that CPs get in their new countries is a good thing for them, and why would the citizens want to criticise when they either love their royals or are ambivelent towards them. Most of the scepticism comes from those outside the nations - from those who don't wear rose coloured spectacles.




Something superficial - I personally am a little bored with being exposed to Maxima as if I were her dental hygenist- can she not smile without showing us her tonsils and what is more the calm regal baby that Amelia was (impressive at her baptism) is now turning into Mini-Max. The latest photo shoot with the Japanese royals showed a difference in the regalness of the two crown princes' families. Come on Beatrix- you are in charge and I really like you, can't you have a better influence over your adult family or do we see Maxima's influence at the fore now?








Oh dear, a laughing and cheerfull toddler, now that is horrible indeed. Toddlers should be regal. I am sure HM The Queen will do something about it

Believe it or not, not only people with rosed spectacles like Maxima (or other royals) btw.
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  #43  
Old 08-23-2006, 02:27 PM
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I would hesitate to say that the photoshoot shows the regalness in the royal families or rather the lack of one in the Dutch. It showed to me that the perhaps the personalities of one family (the Japanese) if nothing else are being stifled. But again..those are my thoughts from the pics. See how we can all look at a picture and think differently? I don't think Maxima and her daughter acted in a non regal way. As for showing her tonsils...Maxima laughs alot (which is now apparently a negative thing) and the photos capture her this way.

And I agree with Marengo...a laughing toddler. With all that is going on in the world..there is nothing more pure and beautiful than to see a child smile. And that goes for an exbuerant Amalia to a hesitant and shy Aiko.
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  #44  
Old 08-23-2006, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk1189
And that goes for an exbuerant Amalia to a hesitant and shy Aiko.
Children reflect what they see: a laughing mother and a dad who is more like a teddybear when it comes to his kids. Isn't it sweet? While little Aiko surely realizes that something is wrong with her Mum. The fact that Aiko is such a loving kid shows IMHO that even though her mother is ill the family feels love for each other.
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  #45  
Old 08-23-2006, 03:12 PM
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It was interesting to get an insight into what Willen-Alexander and Maxima do, in the article Henri translated.

It follows the same pattern that the Queen and Prince Charles have, in inviting politicians, media people (actors, directors, tv presenters, etc.), and a range of 'ordinary' people for lunch or dinners. It is a good way to get the feel of what their subjects (or future subjects) are thinking. If it gives people with more republican views an insight and understanding of the Monarch and Heir, so much the better.

Living in Scotland, I don't get to see and hear much of other royal families, except from what I read in Point de Vue and Neue Post. But Maxima seems very open, even emotional, compared to Willem-Alexander's more northern reserve. But I think as a couple they seem to be in love with each other, and comfortable with each other's different characters. (The problem with Charles and Diana was that they were not in love and Diana used her popularity to belittle Charles.)

As to whether Maxima was a social climber? Who knows? So long as she does the 'job' well and makes the people of the Netherlands (and W-A) happy, then her original motives are unimportant. But I can understand that her parents might well have thought that marrying into a Royal Family brought a lot of stress and publicity, and a life-time of commitment, and that simply marrying an unknown wealthy man might have been better!
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  #46  
Old 08-23-2006, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison20
As to whether Maxima was a social climber? Who knows?
In a sense most people are social climbers - whether they succeed or only dream about a chance. Isn't anyone who tries to get a better education than his/her parents had, to earn more money or find a more interesting job a "social climber" on trying to better their fate? Today women have the same possibilities as men to climb either via marriage or through a career. While getting a good job seems to be socially accepted, marrying up seems to be a problem for many on-lookers. But if you think about it, it takes a lot to make a man from a higher social level asking for marriage and keep him. Some men are content to marry a wife who is just an asset when it comes to socializing. These women do not necessarily be "nice" and may even appear openly materialistic to the onlooker. Still, if they don't have what their husband requires, they won't be a social climber for long. or a lonely, divorced one.

In my opinion most of the current Crown princes were looking for lmuch more, they looked for love and obviously (hopefully?) found it. But their spouse had to be all: romantic lover, loving mother, educated partner and full of discipline and understanding. Yes, they climbed to the top but they brought a rich dowry in form of their personality with them into the marriage.

People who look down on them because they were successful in their "social climb" should ask themselves if they aren't suffering from the "sour grapes" syndrome or really find a reason to pass a negative judgment about girls who only did what mankind has done ever since the evolution started.
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  #47  
Old 08-23-2006, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
People who look down on them because they were successful in their "social climb" should ask themselves if they aren't suffering from the "sour grapes" syndrome or really find a reason to pass a negative judgment about girls who only did what mankind has done ever since the evolution started.
Why would you want to make a personal snide remark about those with whom you obviously disagree? Present an argument and counter it, both with intelligent facts and observations and it makes a sensible debate with no need for the personal stuff.

Social climbing depends on what status we already hold in society- and if we have got there through personal hard work and education then that is admirable. I don't know any social climbers; most of the people we know may attend the same sort of schools, make friends and find partners with those they feel comfortable with, that is probably the same sort of families. Social climbing is a big no no and can end unpleasantly - it is taking advantage of a partners assets- Nouveau riche is the ancient word.
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  #48  
Old 08-23-2006, 05:00 PM
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I don't know if miss Máxima Zorreguieta Cerruti did qualify as a social climber or a gold digger anyway.

She comes from a privileged family, with a house in Recoleta (residential area in Buenos Aires), with an hacienda (studfarm) in Pergamino, with a house in Punta del Este (Uruguay) and a chalet in San Carlos de Bariloche (the Sankt Moritz of South America). The family uses to be in polo sports, quite an upper class activity. As an adolescente Máxima already had a subscription on the Opera (not for the music, but as THE place to meet and greet 'our sort of people'). She did attend a private primary school led by German nuns, went to a private bilingual (English-Spanish) British style secondary girls' school, the most expensive of Buenos Aires (Northlands College). She went to university and soon, as a foreigner (with a green card) managed it to settle in the Manhattan haute finance, living in a $ 4000 per month appartment. That is not 'mainstream' life.

Yes, marrying a royal Prince is hors categorie, but really 'gold digging' and 'social climbing' seems not at order here. The financial and social 'gap' between bride and groom seems much smaller than between Letizia-Felipe, Mette Marit-Haakon, Mary-Frederik, etc.
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  #49  
Old 08-23-2006, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
As stated in a post earlier in this thread, also Princess Beatrix was very much a lady showing a big smile from ear-to-ear. Even now and then she falls out her role as the dignified, distant and aloof Beatrix Regina.

As Princess she was nicknamed 'Princess Smile', for her ever-and-always joyful smile or even laughter. As a Queen she suddenly became much more distant, as if she feels the weight of the kingship on her shoulders.

The same will happen with Princess Máxima. Now she is the young and popular Princess with two adorable daughters. In the future she is the Consort to His Majesty. She will feel the weight of her spouse's kingship as well. Prince Willem-Alexander said that he hoped the royal life would not change 'the Máxima on which I became so in love with'.
Thank you for the information about Beatrix, Henri.
I did mention that my opinion was a superficial comment but I would still like to see Maxima being happy without the mouth wide open - every photograph seems to show that. The time when Beatrix was growing up did people outside The Netherlands see any photos- no probably, because it was not the same then as it is now- Beatrix has done a good job and I can hardly imagine her doing the howling thing that Maxima does- but we all see it everywhere and it makes her seem exuberant, that is copious and lavish . Beatrix even in her youthful photos, that we can see today, does not come across as over the top like that.

Smiling is a good thing for all the royals - and it must hurt their cheeks sometimes but if Beatrix felt it was the right thing to calm down why not give a little insight to Maxima. And I am glad that she took the route of regalness and serenity which I believe all the European queens regnant and consorts have. I just hope their successors can keep up the standard. It worries me if they don't.

Just saw your other post I agree with you about the social status of Maxima , only Mathilde and Camilla had a higher social status I would think as they both are from aristocratic backgrounds.
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  #50  
Old 08-23-2006, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine



People who look down on them because they were successful in their "social climb" should ask themselves if they aren't suffering from the "sour grapes" syndrome or really find a reason to pass a negative judgment about girls who only did what mankind has done ever since the evolution started.
Hey now, no need to heap on syndromes to us hardworking non-social climbers.
I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say I don't have anything against social climbers per se. I said that in a former post. The thing that annoys me about Maxima is that in the past at least, she'd go out of her way to explain that she is anything but! That's all.
Also, I think there is a difference between people who work their way up the financial ladder, and those who merely marry up that ladder. Personally, I'd rather belong to the first, but maybe that's just me.
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  #51  
Old 08-23-2006, 05:50 PM
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I think Maxima is great. I have written before that at times I think she seems to be careening out of control with enthusiasm, the big smile, etc. but she always manages to rein it in before it gets too far, IMO. She is one smart cookie, with a generous, good heart, I believe. I think Marengo's comments about different CP's being appropriate for certain countries is right on. Sure, we're all free to express our opinions on this board but I think it is worth remembering that we are commenting on actions in photos/writing, which removes all the cultural content and that is a huge missing element in our interpretations and commentaries.
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  #52  
Old 08-23-2006, 06:03 PM
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When you sit high up on a horse...

I would say that apparently many Argentineans sees a 'snub' in Princess Máxima. That might sound weird in our Dutch eyes, with such an exuberant and accessible Princess.

But during the State Visit to Argentina, earlier this year, there were many Dutch media in Argentina and they made background reports etc.
In some media they sensed a sort of 'Máxima has an air': being arrogant and looking down to people. This was quite surprising for the Dutch: Máxima arrogant? Haveing an 'air'? This seems to be something which Argentineans understand but for which the Dutch have no radar.

An Argentinean stated in one of the Dutch newspapers: 'Look, she comes from upper class, you know. The gap between the haves and the have-nots is enormous in our country. In your country, the rich Netherlands, you can not make any imagination of that. There are plenty of Máxima's in Buenos Aires, that type of ladies. They are very friendly, but in their heart they look down on us. You know: in Argentina we have a saying: 'When you sit high up on a horse, you can only look down...'
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  #53  
Old 08-23-2006, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
I would say that apparently many Argentineans sees a 'snub' in Princess Máxima. That might sound weird in our Dutch eyes, with such an exuberant and accessible Princess.

But during the State Visit to Argentina, earlier this year, there were many Dutch media in Argentina and they made background reports etc.
In some media they sensed a sort of 'Máxima has an air': being arrogant and looking down to people. This was quite surprising for the Dutch: Máxima arrogant? Haveing an 'air'? This seems to be something which Argentineans understand but for which the Dutch have no radar.

An Argentinean stated in one of the Dutch newspapers: 'Look, she comes from upper class, you know. The gap between the haves and the have-nots is enormous in our country. In your country, the rich Netherlands, you can not make any imagination of that. There are plenty of Máxima's in Buenos Aires, that type of ladies. They are very friendly, but in their heart they look down on us. You know: in Argentina we have a saying: 'When you sit high up on a horse, you can only look down...'
Henri,
There are many people here(in Argentina) that do not like Máxima(mainly becuase of her father) but many people also love her .
On the first day of the State visit, when Máxima came down from the car, everybody started clapping and shouting "Máxima! God blessed you!"I was there, and nobody shouted anything bad to her.


On their visit to MALBA Museum in Buenos Aires, there was an argentine girl with a poster that said "We love you Willem-Alexander"



Magazines sell better when Máxima is on the cover, and for us, Amalia is the "little argentine princess"

(victoria rm/ Foto van tellingen)
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  #54  
Old 08-23-2006, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Oh dear, a laughing and cheerfull toddler, now that is horrible indeed. Toddlers should be regal. I am sure HM The Queen will do something about it
This is off topic but Amalia's mischievous gene may well stem from her father! In their younger days, Alexander and his brothers were very mischievous. Wish I had a link to hilarious footage of a young Constantijn deliberately kicking a soccer ball into a small crowd of reporters, who had gathered at their vacation spot for a photo shoot! And a then princess Beatrix who couldn't help smiling as she reprimanded her youngest. All boys turned out fine, so Amalia will in all likelyhood too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Believe it or not, not only people with rosed spectacles like Maxima (or other royals) btw.
Marengo I do believe it, after all, Maxima does seem to have a gregarious attitude so that is a definite plus. The other thing I do applaud about her is her attempt to learn the Dutch language as quick as she could. Again if it hadn't been some of the things she (and Alexander) said in a few interviews that really made me roll my eyes from here to Tokio, I might have a different opinion. After all, I'm not a strict defender of the concept of monarchy per se, and yet I can't help but adore Beatrix, who in my view personifies the perfect monarch.
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  #55  
Old 08-23-2006, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
I can't help but adore Beatrix, who in my view personifies the perfect monarch.
Her Majesty: 'We are touched...' (with a smile from ear-to-ear)




Picture: ANP / bucketed via my webspace
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Old 08-23-2006, 06:45 PM
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To proof that there are plenty of pictures without Princess Máxima showing her 10.000 megawatt smile ('showing her tonsils') here a few (also a nice display of jewelry):















The pictures are from ANP and bucketed via my webspace.
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Old 08-23-2006, 07:03 PM
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A little bit late, but thank you very much Henri M. for your translation of this article! I found it very enlightening.

I agree that Maxima is an asset to the House of Orange. I think she has rejeuvenated and shaken it up in a good way. While I adore Queen Beatrix, the royal house was a bit boring but with Maxima's energy and her exuberance and enthusiasm, she has infused the rest of the royal family with her energy.

I can see the change in Willem, too, if only through pictures. As the article noted, Willem has gained confidence with Maxima's love and support as a constant presence in his life. (I've noticed a similar change in Phillippe of Belgium through his marriage with Mathilde.) While in some pictures pre-Maxima, Willem seemed a bit bored and not too happy, post engagement/marriage, one can see how much more he smiles (and how broad, too!), and how (as the article notes) he makes more of an effort to engage with people during his royal engagements (especially during Queensday).

And being a father with his two adorable daughters, Willem is the epitome of happiness. It was very evident to me during the Japanese and Dutch photoshoot how happy and proud he is of Maxima and his daughters.

I also agree with the article of how Maxima has stood "upright" since the engagement announcement, how her father's past might've hurt her but she found a way to get the public to look beyond that and to see her for who she was, not who her father was or what his past actions had been.
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Old 08-23-2006, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Her Majesty: 'We are touched...' (with a smile from ear-to-ear)

Picture: ANP / bucketed via my webspace
It is the smile that matters, not smiling is OK but this is a perfect smile Henri, send it to Maxima please. Merci.
What a great woman having to live with watching the awful deterioration of her husband's Parkinson's and still able to do a good job as a queen. She has all of my respect. Wish I could transfer it to her d-i-l; though maybe you could persuade me, but what with the new charges against members of the Videlia regime do we think that there is going to be more controversy surrounding the Zorreguietas?
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Old 08-23-2006, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by juliana


Something superficial - I personally am a little bored with being exposed to Maxima as if I were her dental hygenist- can she not smile without showing us her tonsils


This is personally one of the things I love about Maxima: How exuberant she is and how she radiates with enthusiasm and spreads it wherever she goes. It appears to me that her enthusiasm is infectious with her husband, her daughters, her in-laws and people she meets. I love that she wears her heart on her sleeves.

I find her broad grin much more genuine than sometimes when we see (any) public figure smiling politely, as if they are willing themselves to smile because they know there are photographers in their presence. It makes me think that they might be bored or would rather be a hundred other places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
and what is more the calm regal baby that Amelia was (impressive at her baptism) is now turning into Mini-Max.


Just as I like Maxima for the above qualities, I like the same qualities in Amalia. I like that she is aware of her surroundings and engages with the media when she's in their presence rather than hiding behind her parents or crying.

With her future as queen, and the decades ahead of her of life in the public eye, I think it bodes well for Amalia to be cheerful and enthusiastic. It bodes much better for the royal house, too, than a future queen who is grumpy and has a frown on her face all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
The latest photo shoot with the Japanese royals showed a difference in the regalness of the two crown princes' families.


I think that's something to be respected: The differences between the two royal courts and the differences between the two crown princely couples and their families.

It would be rather boring if all the families were like the Japanese royals or if all the families were like the Dutch royals. Each royal court has its own unique history and its own personalities that make it interesting to watch as royal fans.

You can simultaneously admire the grand pageantry of the British royal court, the ancient traditions of the Japanese court, the party-loving Queen Margrethe and her festive balls and the humbleness of the Spanish court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
Come on Beatrix- you are in charge and I really like you, can't you have a better influence over your adult family or do we see Maxima's influence at the fore now?

Although it's often said about women not marrying men hoping to change them, I don't think (and hope not) that Beatrix wants to change her daughter-in-law into something less than she is or something different than what she is.

Look what happened in the Japanese court when the IHA tried to stifle the success and achievements of Masako. Would the Dutch really want a Maxima toned down a few notches or worst, a situation like Masako, with Maxima so stressed by expectations of her to be something else that she has to withdrawal from royal life altogether? To me that would pose more harm to the House of Orange than an overly enthusiastic Crown Princess.

What's wrong with a little (or a lot) of enthusiasm anyways? Enthusiasm never killed anyone or brought down a royal house before.
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Old 08-23-2006, 07:29 PM
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Its not the enthusiasm that I dislike it is purely and superficially the way she laughs- like this! Ha Ha! We regularly see the photos with a wide open mouth. As I said to Henri- show Maxima the lovley photo of Beatrix- wide, cheek to cheek smile. Enthusiasm is necessary and a good thing but with little ones, especially royals, please keep them calm in public.
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