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  #201  
Old 12-03-2006, 08:56 PM
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I sometimes wonder if these threads are really about analysing someone or whether its more to do with character assassination I hope I'm wrong.
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  #202  
Old 12-03-2006, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Its the same situation in a private company where the owner puts all his sons in key VP positions, just because they're his sons and its his company. There's nothing any of the other employees can do about the sons being incompetent except leave the company. When its a large company, that could impact the livelihood of a lot of people.
Very, very well said, Ysbel. That is a perfect analogy.

This is why, at the end of the day, I'm not much of a monarchist, despite the fact that I can see the value of having one. And despite the fact I love Beatrix. And despite the fact that by all accounts, Maxima is not so bad in the grand scheme of things. In fact, she may qualify better as 'king' of the Netherlands than her cipher of a husband.
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  #203  
Old 12-03-2006, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
I sometimes wonder if these threads are really about analysing someone or whether its more to do with character assassination I hope I'm wrong.
To use the info Henri dug up:

"At present this means:

Queen Beatrix € 3.896.000,-- ( appr. $ 5,064,800.--), free of taxes

Prince Willem-Alexander € 933.000,-- (appr. $ 1,212,900.--), free of taxes

Máxima € 822.000,-- (appr. $ 1,068,600.--), free of taxes"

Hello people, let's keep things in perspective here: you mean Maxima can receive over a million dollars annually, doesn't actually have to be accountable to ANYONE over that money, can use it at her own discretion TAX FREE while, if she wouldn't show up in public now and then, leave us to wonder what on the planet she's actually up to?

In other words, this woman is a public character, get's paid for it, and then some, and we mere mortals aren't allowed to make fun of her hair cuts?

She should, just like all the other paid-for royals, be <happy> she has the gig at all. Don't get me wrong, Maxima of all royals seems to get this, seems to be grateful and putting in the hours to justify her extrordinarily cushy and privileged life. Kudo's to her on that.

And sure, and this is of course what you mean, she is human too. Sure she is. But if she wants to live a spoofed-free life, if she wants to have her cake and eat it, too, she should get out of the kitchen. Now.
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  #204  
Old 12-03-2006, 09:17 PM
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Interesting post...
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  #205  
Old 12-03-2006, 09:37 PM
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Wow...I haven't been to this thread since it's first couple pages and it's turned vicious! Maxima is here to stay. She isn't going anywhere. Even if WA and Maxima divorce (let's hope not) she's still not going anywhere. Maxima can arguably be the most loved Crown Princess in Europe. Technically, Maxima has done nothing wrong, she has fulfilled her duties. She's provided an heir and the spare to the throne, and another spare is in the making. Maxima seems dedicated to her causes and I've heard she even writes her own speeches. Yes, she can do something with her hair (comb, anyone?) and sometimes her hat choices are just bloody awful (huge flower hat at Alexia's christening?) but overall she fulfills her duties just fine. The only thing I would like to see Maxima doing more of is participating in more Dutch organizations. I don't know her patronages very well but from what I've seen they're more internationally focused.
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  #206  
Old 12-03-2006, 09:49 PM
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To be quite honest....the discussion of money as it relates to the monarchy is just nonsense. Everytime someone has an issue or a concern with a royal....the whole tax payer money comment comes up. And we hear the comments....if they can't handle it...they need to move on. Well I disagree with that. Whether or you believe it in a monarchy or democracy....we all have traditions that we ALL count on. And we get those from both a democracy or monarchy. There maybe a time when the monarchy in the Netherlands is not needed but if it goes down....its not because Maxima has unkempt hair or is wearing a leopard dress!

Face it folks.....it doesn't matter what form of government that you live in....its all being supported by the tax payers. We are all ALL paying for it in someway or another. You can compalin about the Danish, Dutch, British royal families being supported by tax dollars and I can complain that I am paying for Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, Lady Bird Johnson, both Bushes and a Clinton! Its all relative.

I am almost 40 years old...and I got to tell you when I was younger I put much more emphasis on what I looked like before I went out. Going to the mall or the grocery store was a major production before I could leave the house. Now don't get me wrong....I still take care in my appearance but now...you will find me running the streets not looking my best! There are more important things I need to focus on and I can't always take that extra time to be "fashion show ready." And perhaps its like that with Maxima...maybe she didn't take that extra moment to brush her hair because Amalia or Alexia needed her attention. And she is more focused on her next engagement or speech. Its a thought.

I totally understand that we expect the royals to maintain a certain image and they are not "ordinary" people even though in some aspects they are. What disturbs me about this entire argument about Maxima and what qualifies as appropriate represenation for the Princess of Orange is the message that we are sending. And yes, we are a sending a message. This world has become so shallow and "fashion" focused that we are more concerned what a person looks like on the outside than what type of person they are on the inside.
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  #207  
Old 12-04-2006, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk
We are all ALL paying for it in someway or another. You can compalin about the Danish, Dutch, British royal families being supported by tax dollars and I can complain that I am paying for Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, Lady Bird Johnson, both Bushes and a Clinton!
The difference is that the Americans have voted Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, etc. as their head of state and of course, like all other heads of state, they are paid and the functional costs of the presidency are covered.

This does however not mean that their son-in-law or daughter-in-law are getting paid an allowance, aren't they? And once again I would like to stress that there is only one thing asked from the spouse to the King, the Prince of Orange or the abdicated King: shut up and be pretty.

Thát is their core business.

Well, if they are interested in arts, or have warm feelings for micro-credits or involvement in AIDS, wonderful. But no one asks that from them and it is no requirement whatsoever. In essence Máxima only needs to glitz and glam and be in the shadow next to her spouse, the future King.
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  #208  
Old 12-04-2006, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
shut up and be pretty


Support, proceed with diligence and look the part. Yes, quite fitting I think
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  #209  
Old 12-04-2006, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
To use the info Henri dug up:

"At present this means:

Queen Beatrix € 3.896.000,-- ( appr. $ 5,064,800.--), free of taxes

Prince Willem-Alexander € 933.000,-- (appr. $ 1,212,900.--), free of taxes

Máxima € 822.000,-- (appr. $ 1,068,600.--), free of taxes"

Hello people, let's keep things in perspective here: you mean Maxima can receive over a million dollars annually, doesn't actually have to be accountable to ANYONE over that money, can use it at her own discretion TAX FREE while, if she wouldn't show up in public now and then, leave us to wonder what on the planet she's actually up to?

In other words, this woman is a public character, get's paid for it, and then some, and we mere mortals aren't allowed to make fun of her hair cuts?

She should, just like all the other paid-for royals, be <happy> she has the gig at all. Don't get me wrong, Maxima of all royals seems to get this, seems to be grateful and putting in the hours to justify her extrordinarily cushy and privileged life. Kudo's to her on that.

And sure, and this is of course what you mean, she is human too. Sure she is. But if she wants to live a spoofed-free life, if she wants to have her cake and eat it, too, she should get out of the kitchen. Now.
She IS accountable! If you read The Watchers post, only one page ago, you would have found this:

Under the Constitution and the Royal House Finances Act, the State pays allowances directly to Queen Beatrix, Prince Willem-Alexander and Princess Máxima.

The other members of the Royal House do not receive allowances.
The allowances consist of 3 components:
  • Component A, which relates to staff costs;
  • Component B, which relates to other expenses;
  • Component C, which is the income component.
The following table shows the estimated allowances for 2007.
(in thousands of euros)

The Queen
A 1,511
B 1,795
C 762
Total 4,068

Prince Willem-Alexander
A 294
B 457
C 226
Total 977

Princess Máxima
A 294
B 343
C 266
Total 863


------

So the sum that is free for her to do with as she pleases is 266.000 euros, still enough, but hardly exhuberent.
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  #210  
Old 12-04-2006, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
The other members of the Royal House do not receive allowances.
The allowances consist of 3 components:
  • Component A, which relates to staff costs;
  • Component B, which relates to other expenses;
  • Component C, which is the income component.
The following table shows the estimated allowances for 2007.
(in thousands of euros)

The Queen
A 1,511
B 1,795
C 762
Total 4,068

Prince Willem-Alexander
A 294
B 457
C 226
Total 977

Princess Máxima
A 294
B 343
C 266
Total 863


------
Interesting that she gets more than Willem-Alexander when you look at component C. Probably there's children's allowance or something like that...
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  #211  
Old 12-04-2006, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Nonsense.
Denis Thatcher had to shut up and be pretty next to Margaret.
Prince Philip has to shut up and be pretty next to Elizabeth.
Prince Henrik has to shut up and be pretty next to Margrethe.
I'm sure Queen Beatrix wishes her father had shut up and been pretty next to Juliana....
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  #212  
Old 12-04-2006, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Interesting that she gets more than Willem-Alexander when you look at component C. Probably there's children's allowance or something like that...
No a typo They both have 226.000 in the income component.
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  #213  
Old 12-04-2006, 07:39 AM
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Accountable

The accountability of Máxima is relatively.

Her allowance is set up as a personal income and to cover costs which derive from her position as the spouse to HRH The Prince of Orange. It was the intention of the lawmaker that 'it is desirable that the prestige and the dignity of the kingship is uphold and maintained' and therefore these six members of the Royal House are given financial support.

How exactly these millions in the private allowances are spent, only the Thesauriër der Koningin (The Queen's Treasurer) knows. We do know that the Queen does pay the functional costs from her Hofdames and Dames du Palais, as they are not in the service of the state but in her very personal service.

We may argue how Máxima has spent her millions succesfully 'to maintain and uphold the prestige and dignity of the kingship'. My opinion is that she could do better, especially the last months. That is all.
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  #214  
Old 12-04-2006, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
The accountability of Máxima is relatively.

Her allowance is set up as a personal income and to cover costs which derive from her position as the spouse to HRH The Prince of Orange. It was the intention of the lawmaker that 'it is desirable that the prestige and the dignity of the kingship is uphold and maintained' and therefore these six members of the Royal House are given financial support.

How exactly these millions in the private allowances are spent, only the Thesauriër der Koningin (The Queen's Treasurer) knows. We do know that the Queen does pay the functional costs from her Hofdames and Dames du Palais, as they are not in the service of the state but in her very personal service.

We may argue how Máxima has spent her millions succesfully 'to maintain and uphold the prestige and dignity of the kingship'. My opinion is that she could do better, especially the last months. That is all.
Henri, you make a very good point here which is a valid topic of discussion. Its unfortunate that you initially used the term 'shut up and be pretty' because it really didn't explain fully what you were talking about and it needlessly alienated a lot of members.
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  #215  
Old 12-04-2006, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
The accountability of Máxima is relatively.

Her allowance is set up as a personal income and to cover costs which derive from her position as the spouse to HRH The Prince of Orange. It was the intention of the lawmaker that 'it is desirable that the prestige and the dignity of the kingship is uphold and maintained' and therefore these six members of the Royal House are given financial support.

How exactly these millions in the private allowances are spent, only the Thesauriër der Koningin (The Queen's Treasurer) knows. We do know that the Queen does pay the functional costs from her Hofdames and Dames du Palais, as they are not in the service of the state but in her very personal service.

We may argue how Máxima has spent her millions succesfully 'to maintain and uphold the prestige and dignity of the kingship'. My opinion is that she could do better, especially the last months. That is all.
Agree with the entire post, except for the end. I think that especially actually in recent months, <inhoudelijk bekeken>, when strictly looking at the content of what she's been up to, there isn't all that much to comment about I think.

For example, I watched the interview with the couple when in Australia, and was pleased with the way they conducted themselves. As well as the fact that it was clear, from their answers, that they had done their home work on the countries they were visiting and were able to talk intelligently about differences or lack thereof, of their host countries versus the Netherlands. And mind you, I am one of the <original> sceptics, aka critics, of this couple on this very Forum, but even I can see how this couple has, well, grown, if you will, over the past years.

I agree they could do more, though. I also agree Maxima needs a hair cut.
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  #216  
Old 12-04-2006, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
She IS accountable! If you read The Watchers post, only one page ago, you would have found this:

Under the Constitution and the Royal House Finances Act, the State pays allowances directly to Queen Beatrix, Prince Willem-Alexander and Princess Máxima.

The other members of the Royal House do not receive allowances.
The allowances consist of 3 components:
  • Component A, which relates to staff costs;
  • Component B, which relates to other expenses;
  • Component C, which is the income component.
The following table shows the estimated allowances for 2007.
(in thousands of euros)

The Queen
A 1,511
B 1,795
C 762
Total 4,068

Prince Willem-Alexander
A 294
B 457
C 226
Total 977

Princess Máxima
A 294
B 343
C 266
Total 863


------

So the sum that is free for her to do with as she pleases is 266.000 euros, still enough, but hardly exhuberent.
I see your point and agree partly, for the most part however I'm with Henri on this one in that their accountability is relative.

Especially if these people still manage to take the governmental plane to some (many) of their private trips--understandable if it's to, say, Valentino in Rome to try on 'work clothes, but how do we know they don't use the thing to, say, attend a rendez vous with friends and family, say (which they do, it is said.)? As long as this is still a murky area in the royal accounting, I am with Henri in that these people's accountability is relative.
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  #217  
Old 12-06-2006, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
I see your point and agree partly, for the most part however I'm with Henri on this one in that their accountability is relative. .
According to some, most things are relative, so maybe Maxima is just a projection of our minds. And maybe we even don't exist.
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  #218  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Denis Thatcher had to shut up and be pretty next to Margaret.
That's not true at all. Dennis Thatcher chose to take a back seat role as his knowledge of politics was extremely small compared to his wife's knowledge. Dennis would actually give reporters and journalists the silent treatment and would blantantly ignore them. He never wanted Margaret to be Prime Minister and so he refused to do the things previous Prime Ministerial consorts had done. He regularly refused to accompany Margaret in public and usually stuck to golf, whisky and Chequers. He was controversially quiet. He should have done alot more than he did. Lady Eden had done alot, Lady Douglas-Home had also taken on a more prominent role but Mrs Wilson refused to just as Dennis did. The Prime Ministerial PR team then got into a fluster because Dennis was seen as a slacker and not really that bothered. Thats the problem of not having a pre-defined role for a Prime Ministerial consort. So no, Dennis didn't shut up and look pretty at all. He chose to do nothing.

Thats completely the opposite to what is expected of Princess Maxima so I don't quite get the comparison.
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  #219  
Old 12-26-2006, 11:29 AM
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I've noticed on various occasions as Maxima to be refferd as Princess and not Cprincess, is there a reason for this, and is she reffered to as the Princess of Orange? will she be Queen one day? or only princess consort?!
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  #220  
Old 12-26-2006, 06:11 PM
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The title crownprince(ss) does not exsist in the Netherlands. The Crownprince has the title Prince of Orange and is called 'the presumtive heir to the throne'.
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