What name does Marius call Haakon?

[Jo of Palatine]

I wonder if one reason why Prince Sverre Magnus did not receive the style HRH was to make clear to Marius that - while Ingrid is the second in line and thus will become queen one day - his brother Sverre is just a boy like himself. Okay, he is "prince" Sverre but then his father is a prince, too, but he does not have a title that Marius doesn't have.

It would fit in with what is heard about the way Haakon and Mette-Marit really care for others - a way to give Marius the feeling that he is just as worthy as his "royal" siblings. Of course, it fits in as well with the carefulness the norwegian Royals handle their public image - in times when quite some "subjects" are convinced they don't need a Royal family, it is wise to reduce the amount of Royals who have a right to a special style.

[KikkiB]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

I wonder if one reason why Prince Sverre Magnus did not receive the style HRH was to make clear to Marius that - while Ingrid is the second in line and thus will become queen one day - his brother Sverre is just a boy like himself. Okay, he is "prince" Sverre but then his father is a prince, too, but he does not have a title that Marius doesn't have.

It would fit in with what is heard about the way Haakon and Mette-Marit really care for others - a way to give Marius the feeling that he is just as worthy as his "royal" siblings. Of course, it fits in as well with the carefulness the norwegian Royals handle their public image - in times when quite some "subjects" are convinced they don't need a Royal family, it is wise to reduce the amount of Royals who have a right to a special style.

I think you are on to something here! I think the Royal family of Norway is trying not to elevate themselves from the rest of the people. I mean, historically, royals were very distant from their subjects. But nowadays, royals are more or less like the rest, just with an unusual career. And that is what I think CP Haakon and CP M-M is trying to do for their boys, giving them a broader variety of possibilites than they might have had, considering the family relations.

And for Marius, I do believe his father is very involved in his life, but that they manage to keep it private. Though, I have read that Marius often spend school holidays with his father and his new family. And I think they also have been on vacations abroad together. My impression of Marius' relationship with his father, is very similar to a lot of kids in Norway today. Marius' father being a weekend and holiday dad. But Marius have an advantage, his father lives quite close by, in Oslo, and not in the other end of the country, which is the case for a lot of kids.

My conclusion is that the Norwegian royal family is just like a lot of other families. Containing mine, yours and ours, exes and new partners. But as long as they get along and are agreeing on how to do things, I think it will be all right.

[HRH Kerry]

I believe you guys have pretty much summed up the roles Marius' dad and CP Haakon play in his life. I don't think a kid could ask for more being in a situation like that but I have to agree with some of what Norge said in an earlier post that it seems a little disrespectful in his address of Haakon.

In the states, for the most part a child, regardless of the relationship, doesn't call a grown up by their first name without attaching a Mr., Ms., or Mrs. to it. But on the other hand I'm quite sure that this issue came up while discussing marriage. I guess the bottom line is that as long as the parties involved are content then who are we to speculate. JMO :)

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by kerry

I believe you guys have pretty much summed up the roles Marius' dad and CP Haakon play in his life. I don't think a kid could ask for more being in a situation like that but I have to agree with some of what Norge said in an earlier post that it seems a little disrespectful in his address of Haakon.

In the states, for the most part a child, regardless of the relationship, doesn't call a grown up by their first name without attaching a Mr., Ms., or Mrs. to it. But on the other hand I'm quite sure that this issue came up while discussing marriage. I guess the bottom line is that as long as the parties involved are content then who are we to speculate. JMO :)

The situations in which someone is called by Mr./Ms./or Mrs. in Norway are extremely limited nowadays. I think the only ones I can recollect using it are the Palace around Mette-Marit and Haakon's engagement, when she was Miss Tjessem Høiby in speeches.

The only adults I can recall adressing in that manner, and not by their first names, are my grandmother's friends, and then only because I didn't know their first names. There have been some teachers that has been adressed by their last names, but then it's not usually prefixed by a Mr/Mrs/Miss - it's more like a first name.

Other than the grandparent generation, I think most people adress each other by first or last names in Norway - we don't stand much on formality

[HRH Kerry]

norwegianne,

Wow, things are so different on each side of the Altantic. :) So it was probably evident from the beginning how CP Haakon would be addressed by Marius.

[Smilla]

Originally Posted by norwegianne

Other than the grandparent generation, I think most people adress each other by first or last names in Norway - we don't stand much on formality

Especially within families, you wouldn't call anybody by their last names, especially not your stepfather or stepmother. I don't think it's disrespectful either, how else would you address your stepfather? You couldn't say "dad" - that one's taken - you wouldn't say "Mr. X", what else is left? First names.

[HRH Kerry]

It's all about where you're from. My step-son actually calls me Mrs. Kerry. I love him no differently than my children with my husband but the fact remains that I'm not his natural mother. He's 16yrs old and I've been in his life since he was 20 months. Addressing me as Mrs is a sign of respect. Don't get me wrong, I would love for him to call me Mommy but I wouldn't dare disrespect his mother like that especially since she is alive and well and is an important part of his life.

It isn't considered old fashioned or grandparent generation-ish to be addresses as such. I'm only Kerry to my friends or piers and that's only if I grant them liberty to do so. Being on a first name basis here implies that you are on the same level, i.e., work together, drink and party together, being an adult, etc.

I'm sure if I had been raised somewhere else then my country/heritage/ generation would dictate otherwise. I'm not knocking it but just want for others to see how different things are on this side of the pond.


But back to little Marius...he seems to be very happy with whatever the arrangement is.:) :) :)

[Smilla]

Originally Posted by kerry

It's all about where you're from.
I'm sure if I had been raised somewhere else then my country/heritage/ generation would dictate otherwise. I'm not knocking it but just want for others to see how different things are on this side of the pond.
:) :) :)

Thanks for bringing this up, Kerry, it's so interesting to see which cultural differences there are.
Things have losened up considerably in Europe: my grandmother, who is about ninety, adressed her mother or father respectfully as "Ihr" (German), which can't be translated since you haven't got that grammatical form, but is a form that was used to talk to royalty or ones "betters".

Being a stepfather or stepmother is hard enough - it's great that Hakoon seems to be doing so well in that role.

[Kelly]

What exactly is the role for Marius within the royal family? (besides the crown princess's son)

[Lillia]

Originally Posted by Smilla

Thanks for bringing this up, Kerry, it's so interesting to see which cultural differences there are.
Things have losened up considerably in Europe: my grandmother, who is about ninety, adressed her mother or father respectfully as "Ihr" (German), which can't be translated since you haven't got that grammatical form, but is a form that was used to talk to royalty or ones "betters".

Being a stepfather or stepmother is hard enough - it's great that Hakoon seems to be doing so well in that role.

Interesting, my grandparents always wanted (and still expect) to be addressed as Sir and Madame. It's how he raised his children and he expected the grandchildren (and most everyone else) to call him and my grandmother by a proper address.

Everybody does not do that though. I prefer the much more relaxed approach too.:p

OK - back to the subject of Marius and his role in the royal family.

I think his role is to be a normal little boy, and a big brother, like every other little boy out there.

There will be plenty of time to figure out any sort of 'role' or something

[Princess BellyFlop]

Originally Posted by Smilla

Thanks for bringing this up, Kerry, it's so interesting to see which cultural differences there are. .

Well, I'm also from the other side of the Atlantic, in North America like Kerry, but my experience is more likely like yours. Mind you I'm Canadian, and French-Canadian to top it. My brother who has young step-children (4 and 6 years old) is addressed by them by his 1st name «X», they sometimes call him «Papa X». Like Haakon, he plays in important role in their lives.

Originally Posted by Smilla

Things have losened up considerably in Europe: my grandmother, who is about ninety, adressed her mother or father respectfully as "Ihr" (German), which can't be translated since you haven't got that grammatical form, but is a form that was used to talk to royalty or ones "betters". .

Would that «Ihr» be the equivalent of the French «tu» (2nd person singular) versus «vous» (2nd person plural or respectful singular)? As a child I used «vous» with my parents, I still do with people I do business with or if 'm not close to them as a sign of respect. Unfortunately with the English effect, this form of politeness is being lost around here.

[Smilla]

Princess Bellyflop, I can't quote your message, so I've got to write a new one.
That "Ihr" would be like "vous", even more respectful. You say "Du" to someone you know really well, "Sie" to somebody you don't know that well, as a mark of respect. And the third form, "Ihr" was used to address superiors, like kings or aristocrats. I can't really think of an equivalent in English or French.
Did you use "vous" to address your parents like, "maman, vous etes fatiguee?" (sorry, I've forgotten most of my French). Is that typical of Canadians? I used to work as an au pair in France, and the kids just used the "tu" form to talk to their parents.

[magpie]

usually canadians will use "tu" with their parents - "vous" these days is really reserved for people you really don't know well at all. in elementary and high schools generally the teachers are also addressed as "tu" but this obviously changes at the post-secondary level

[Jenilynn]

Originally Posted by Charlotte1

Marius' biological father has unlimited access to Marius. When Marius began school Mette-Marit, Haakon and Morten Borg all accompanied him. All three (plus Marius' paternal grandmother) have been photographed at one of Marius' sports days.
The day Haakon's and MM's engagement was announced Marius' father took him to spend the day in the mountains to protect him from the media.
Marius goes on summer holidays with his father and spends weekends at his home. His father has remarried, ( Marius was at the wedding) and Marius now has a half-brother as well as a step-brother as his step-mother had a son by a previous relationship.
He has a father who is a very active participant in his life, so that's who he calls papa. Haakon is his stepfather and he calls him by his first name.

I believe also that when Haakon and Mette-Marit were married, Haakon thanked MM in his wedding speech for having had the privilege of helping to raise Marius.

[Maud Alexandra]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

I wonder if one reason why Prince Sverre Magnus did not receive the style HRH was to make clear to Marius that - while Ingrid is the second in line and thus will become queen one day - his brother Sverre is just a boy like himself. Okay, he is "prince" Sverre but then his father is a prince, too, but he does not have a title that Marius doesn't have.

It would fit in with what is heard about the way Haakon and Mette-Marit really care for others - a way to give Marius the feeling that he is just as worthy as his "royal" siblings. Of course, it fits in as well with the carefulness the norwegian Royals handle their public image - in times when quite some "subjects" are convinced they don't need a Royal family, it is wise to reduce the amount of Royals who have a right to a special style.

I think the decision to not style Prince Sverre Magnus HRH is a continuation of the norwegian tradition to keep the Royal House a small one.
When King Haakon, Queen Maud and Crown Prince Olav arrived in our country 100 years ago, Norway was a quite poor country with strong republican sympathies. The main reason for choosing a King (There was a referendum between republic and monarchy and whether Prince Carl of Denmark was the right candidate) was to secure a strong ally in Great Britain. The norwegian Royal House has ever since been a modest and down-to-earth monarchy. And won the hearts and loyalty of their people for it.
Crown Prince Olav was an only child and when Princesses Ragnhild and Astrid married the lost their “HRH” both marrying commoners, leaving the Royal House to consist of only King Olav and Crown Prince Harald after the death of Crown Princess Märtha until Crown Prince Harald married Sonja Haraldsen. Princess Astrid functioned as Norway’s First Lady up until their marriage in 1968 but she was not a member of the Royal House. All decenders from King Haakon and Queen Maud are of course members of the Royal Family. Both Princess Märtha Louise and Prince Haakon was styled “HRH” at birth, but when Princess Märtha Louise married Mr Ari Behn, she like her aunts gave up her “HRH”, but unlike them she didn’t take her husbands last name. (Many norwegian women keep their maiden/family name when they marry.) Her aunts are styled: Princess X, Mrs. Y.
The decision that the Royal House should just consist of the Monarch, his/her spouse, the Crown Prince/ess and spouse, and their firstborn is just a continuation and clarification of a policy from early days.
The King not giving Price Sverre Magnus the style “HRH” is not a dramatic shift like the media makes it out to be. If/when Sverre Magnus marries in the future he would in accordance with established protocol give up his “HRH” if he were so styled.
The effect that it also seem to equal the two brothers, is a side effect I’m sure the King and the Crown Princely couple have considered.

When it comes to Marius father Morten Borg, it seems like some people think he was a junkie or worse. Like Mette-Marit he was part of the Oslo club- and houseparty scene where they met. Mette-Marit has admitted to experiencing and pushing boundaries during that period. Morten Borg was convicted for possession of drugs and got a sentence for that. He comes from a respectable Oslo-family and his parents have been acquaintances of the King and Queen for years. Marius’ father have had visitation rights all along and from the time Marius no longer was an infant have had him for weekends and holidays like any normal part-time father. When Mette-Marit and Marius moved to Oslo from Kristiansand it also became easier to meet frequently. Morten Borg seems to be a supportive and loving father who show up for normal parent’s activities. CP Haakon, CP MM and Morten Borg with his new family seem to have a healthy functional relationship for Marius’ best interest.

[bbb]

Originally Posted by Jenilynn

I believe also that when Haakon and Mette-Marit were married, Haakon thanked MM in his wedding speech for having had the privilege of helping to raise Marius.

what a beautiful example of adults putting the child first. its a shame all step families can't be so fortunate and have this unconditional love. Marius is a lucky little boy and i bet he grows up to make them all proud.

[Rebafan81]

I was reading a interview where Haakon talked about Princess Ingrid and how he will raise all the children the same. He included Marius in this. He said he has learned a great deal about fatherhood from Marius. He said he already had two kids, so three wouldn't be an issue. I think it is great that Marius has the chance to be a part of such a great family, regardless whether they are royalty or not.

[asma]

I think if Marius calls Hakon ''Uncle'' is more appropriate than Papa or Mr.