Belgian Official Visit to Germany (Thuringia & Saxony-Anhalt): July 9-10

[Marika86]

[Wim Dehandschutter] @WDehandschutter ???? Back to the roots.

On July 9-10, Belgian King Philippe and Queen Mathilde will pay an official visit to Germany (Thuringia & Saxony-Anhalt).

They will visit e.g. the city of Gotha. The Belgian royal family descends from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

https://www.monarchie.be/nl/agenda/...duitse-deelstaten-thuringen-en-sachsen-anhalt

Their Majesty the King and Queen made an official visit to the German states of Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt on 9 and 10 July 2019. At their invitation, the Princes were accompanied by the Prime Minister of the German-speaking Community, Oliver Paasch.

The visit is dominated by the excellent bilateral relations with Germany. In Thuringia, the Princes are received by Prime Minister Bodo Ramelow. They visit the city of Gotha, one of the cities of origin of our Royal family. Then they went to the former Nazi concentration camp Buchenwald (link is external) where tribute is paid to the victims of the Second World War. In Weimar they visit the exhibition of the Belgian artist and architect Henry van de Velde in the Neues Museum (external link) , and the newly opened Bauhaus Museum (external link) in the context of the 100 th anniversary of Bauhaus in Germany .
On the second day, the King and Queen move to Lutherstadt Wittenberg in Sachsen-Anhalt, the birthplace of the Protestant Reformation, where They are received by Prime Minister Reiner Haseloff. In the afternoon they visit the Bauhaus Institute (link is external) in Dessau. The official visit ends with a company visit to the Belgian investment of DOMO Caproleuna (link is external) on the site of Infraleuna, one of the largest chemical sites in Germany.

 

[Mbruno]

[Wim Dehandschutter] @WDehandschutter �������� Back to the roots.

On July 9-10, Belgian King Philippe and Queen Mathilde will pay an official visit to Germany (Thuringia & Saxony-Anhalt).

They will visit e.g. the city of Gotha. The Belgian royal family descends from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

https://www.monarchie.be/nl/agenda/...duitse-deelstaten-thuringen-en-sachsen-anhalt

Since this event will take place in the future, why was the past tense form of the verbs used in the English translation ? That was very confusing for the readers as it conveyed an impression that the visit had already taken place.



I also believe that, in the original Dutch text, the present tense form of the verbs (denoting near future time) was used instead. If the text was google translated, could it be that the automatic translator got lost in the grammar ? That would be a major flaw (for the translator program, I mean) if it indeed happened.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

They visit the city of Gotha, one of the cities of origin of our Royal family.

I wonder why Gotha is characterized in the announcement as "one of the cities of origin of our Royal Family" and this is apparently the incentive for the visit to the city. As the duchy of Gotha only became the dominion of the future King Leopold I's brother many years after Leopold's marriage into the ruling family of Great Britain, I imagine Leopold and his descendants had no attachment to it.

King Philippe himself apparently considers his dynasty to be the House of Saxe-Coburg rather than Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.
https://www.monarchie.be/en/royal-family/history/origins-of-the-dynasty

 

[Mbruno]

I wonder why Gotha is characterized in the announcement as "one of the cities of origin of our Royal Family" and this is apparently the incentive for the visit to the city. As the duchy of Gotha only became the dominion of the future King Leopold I's brother many years after Leopold's marriage into the ruling family of Great Britain, I imagine Leopold and his descendants had no attachment to it.

King Philippe himself apparently considers his dynasty to be the House of Saxe-Coburg rather than Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.
https://www.monarchie.be/en/royal-family/history/origins-of-the-dynasty

Princess Élisabeth will be the last Belgian monarch of the dynasty anyway when she becomes queen, unless she marries another Coburg, or her children take their mother's family name instead of their father's (which is possible in Belgium, but not sanctioned by the Association of the Belgian Nobility for the transmission of hereditary titles if I understand it correctly).


Again, that is one of the pitfalls of equal primogeniture. The Belgian branch of the Saxe-Coburg dynasty will continue with the descendants of Prince Gabriel, Prince Emmanuel and Prince Laurent's sons, but it may no longer be on the throne.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Princess Élisabeth will be the last Belgian monarch of the dynasty anyway when she becomes queen, unless she marries another Coburg, or her children take their mother's family name instead of their father's (which is possible in Belgium, but not sanctioned by the Association of the Belgian Nobility for the transmission of hereditary titles if I understand it correctly).

Again, that is one of the pitfalls of equal primogeniture. The Belgian branch of the Saxe-Coburg dynasty will continue with the descendants of Prince Gabriel, Prince Emmanuel and Prince Laurent's sons, but it may no longer be on the throne.

It is really a pitfall of adhering to male line dynastic systems inconsistent with the change to equal primogeniture. But as you said, it remains to be seen whose family name Princess Elisabeth's children will take - Luxembourg, Monaco, and Britain give separate consideration to female heads of the family in spite of adhering to the male line system with respect to all other members of the family.

But my point was that leaving Gotha out of the Belgian branch's name further boosts the appearance that the Belgian royal family is lacking historical attachment to Gotha, and so I wonder why they are now claiming the city for one of their places of origin.

 

[Marengo]

I visited Gotha and Weimar two years ago. There isn't much to do in Gotha, it is very small. The castle Friedenstein is enormous and parts of it were under renovation. The art work inside is second rate at best but the size makes it impressive enough. Coburg is a charming town & is slightly larger and looks much better than Gotha as it was never part of Eastern Germany. It was also the main seat of the dukes of Coburg, while Gotha was indeed added much later to this branch of the family and the castle was not often used by the later dukes.

Schloss Weimar was also partly under renovation at the time, the castle was more delicate inside but mostly empty. Weimar is a much more interesting (and larger) town to visit than either Gotha or Coburg of course, indeed mostly due to Bauhaus and Goethe.

 

[JR76]

I wonder why Gotha is characterized in the announcement as "one of the cities of origin of our Royal Family" and this is apparently the incentive for the visit to the city.
https://www.monarchie.be/en/royal-family/history/origins-of-the-dynasty

Due to the frequent rearrangements of the Ernestine duchies between different branches of the House of Wettin, King Leopold was a male line descendant of the Dukes of Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg so saying that the city is one of the Royal family's place of origin isn't wrong.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Due to the frequent rearrangements of the Ernestine duchies between different branches of the House of Wettin, King Leopold was a male line descendant of the Dukes of Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg so saying that the city is one of the Royal family's place of origin isn't wrong.

That certainly explains it. It seems their concept of the Belgian royal family's origin extended further into history than mine did.

 

[Gawin]

It is really a pitfall of adhering to male line dynastic systems inconsistent with the change to equal primogeniture. But as you said, it remains to be seen whose family name Princess Elisabeth's children will take - Luxembourg, Monaco, and Britain give separate consideration to female heads of the family in spite of adhering to the male line system with respect to all other members of the family.

I agree! The practice of limiting surnames to the male line only seems even more absurd considering the dynasty is only entitled to call itself Saxe-Coburg-Gotha due to marriage with heiresses, who brought Coburg, Gotha, and even Thuringia itself into the family.

Ditto for countless other royal families. The Oldenburgs of Denmark based their claim to Schleswig & Holstein on their descent from an heiress and the founder of the Hessian dynasty acquired Hesse through his mother. The Bourbons are only Bourbons because their ancestor Robert Count of Clermont married Beatrix the heiress of Bourbon.

So women could bring territory into a family but their female descendants couldn't transmit the surname based on that same territory.

 

[iceflower]

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King Philippe and Queen Mathilde arrived for an official visit to the German federal states Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt today, July 9.



** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 ** Pic 4 ** Pic 5 ** gettyimages gallery **


** belga gallery ** video 1 ** video 2 ** video 3 ** video 4 **


** rex gallery ** tlz gallery: Ankunft des belgischen Königspaares in Thüringen **

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Rick Evers wrote that the head of the German branch of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and his family would participate in the visit to Gotha as well.

 

[dbarn67]

Hereditary Prince Hubertus and Princess Kelly von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha were part of welcoming ceremony for the King and Queen,

 

[JR76]

The King is the godfather of one of their sons I believe

 

[Stefan]

The King is the godfather of one of their sons I believe

Yes of their only son Prince Philipp. He will once become the Head of the Family.

 

[theroyalfly]

More photos:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzsdNrkoafj/

 

[Hannelore]

Here's a report of the visit, if you'd like to follow it: Queen Mathilde: Official Visit to Germany

 

[iceflower]

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King Philippe and Queen Mathilde arrived in Wittenberg, Saxony-Anhalt, this morning, July 10:



** belga gallery - day 2 ** video ** video 2 **


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 ** Pic 4 ** Pic 5 ** gettyimages gallery **


** Pic 6 ** Pic 7 ** Pic 8 ** Pic 9 ** Pic 10 ** video 3 ** video 4 ** video 5 **


** updated rex gallery ** mz-web: Royals in Wittenberg Belgisches Königspaar trifft in der Lutherstadt ein **

 

[Tatiana Maria]

More photos:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzsdNrkoafj/

They have promoted Gotha from "one of the cities of origin of our Royal Family" to "the city of origin of the Belgian Royal Family". I am not sure if that is historically appropriate, but the population of Gotha must be honored.

Here's a report of the visit, if you'd like to follow it: Queen Mathilde: Official Visit to Germany

Hubertus says they see one another once or twice per year, so it appears they are friendly but not exceptionally close. I wonder how they met, and whether King Philippe was made his son's godparent for being the head of the Belgian branch.

It is nice to see the head of a Catholic royal family visiting the birthplace of the Protestant Reformation, five centuries after. Have Protestant royal families paid similar visits commemorating Catholic history?

 

[theroyalfly]

The King and Queen looking so sweet!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1148972741317603333

 

[Mbruno]

They have promoted Gotha from "one of the cities of origin of our Royal Family" to "the city of origin of the Belgian Royal Family". I am not sure if that is historically appropriate, but the population of Gotha must be honored.



Hubertus says they see one another once or twice per year, so it appears they are friendly but not exceptionally close. I wonder how they met, and whether King Philippe was made his son's godparent for being the head of the Belgian branch.



It is nice to see the head of a Catholic royal family visiting the birthplace of the Protestant Reformation, five centuries after. Have Protestant royal families paid similar visits commemorating Catholic history?

Yes, Protestant Kings and Queens have visited the Vatican many times.

 

[An Ard Ri]

It is nice to see the head of a Catholic royal family visiting the birthplace of the Protestant Reformation, five centuries after. Have Protestant royal families paid similar visits commemorating Catholic history?

They Belgian Royal Family have Protestant roots ,Leopold Ier was Lutheran and Queen Astrid was raised Lutheran also.

 

[Stefan]

They Belgian Royal Family have Protestant roots ,Leopold Ier was Lutheran and Queen Astrid was raised Lutheran also.

Yes they became only catholic because the children of King Leopold I. and his second wife Louise Marie where raised in the catholic faith iof their mother.

 

[maria-olivia]

I don't know if the King and the Queen are speaking German fluently .

 

[An Ard Ri]

Yes they became only catholic because the children of King Leopold I. and his second wife Louise Marie where raised in the catholic faith iof their mother.

That was not the only reason as Catholicism was also the faith of the vast majority of their Belgian subjects and yes the kings second wife was a French Roman Catholic Princess.

 

[Marchesina]

I don't know if the King and the Queen are speaking German fluently .

An interpreter was provided. Mathilde doesn't speak a word of German, I don't know how fluent Philippe is.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

An interpreter was provided. Mathilde doesn't speak a word of German, I don't know how fluent Philippe is.

According to Wim Dehandschutter, it appeared that Queen Mathilde relied on the interpreter but King Philippe did not.

 

[Hannelore]

Mathilde indeed speaks French, Dutch, English and Italian. Her Spanish is quite good as well.

As for German, like everyone who speaks Dutch, she'll understand most of what's being said. Speaking it is another matter of course, and it seems she only knows a few basics. There's always an interpreter by her side when visiting German speaking countries.

Philippe does speak German, but I have no idea how well.

The children receive private lessons in German. So they won't be needing an interpreter later on

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Mathilde indeed speaks French, Dutch, English and Italian. Her Spanish is quite good as well.

As for German, like everyone who speaks Dutch, she'll understand most of what's being said. Speaking it is another matter of course, and it seems she only knows a few basics. There's always an interpreter by her side when visiting German speaking countries.

Interesting! When and for what reason did the Queen learn to speak Italian and Spanish?

 

[wartenberg7]

That was not the only reason as Catholicism was also the faith of the vast majority of their Belgian subjects and yes the kings second wife was a French Roman Catholic Princess.

Indeed. I am sure because of that he chose a catholic woman to be his 2nd wife. How else, if not even one parent was catholic, could they raise their children in that faith which was vital for a new dynasty to reign in Belgium!

 

[JR76]

Indeed. I am sure because of that he chose a catholic woman to be his 2nd wife. How else, if not even one parent was catholic, could they raise their children in that faith which was vital for a new dynasty to reign in Belgium!

Anything is possible. King Leopold's grand-nephew King Ferdinand of Bulgaria had, to the horror of his wife and their royal relatives, his eldest son, the future King Boris II, converted at age two to the Bulgarian Orthodox faith because he felt that a king should share the faith of his people and to appease his Russian neighbours. Not very religious himself it's still strange that given that reason he didn't convert as well. He did get excommunicated for the move, but gained both the approval of his people and his Russian allies in the north.