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  #181  
Old 10-05-2007, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Well, may be... you are right. She was just a disillusioned and deeply hurt woman, who did not master the highest art of sophistiacted revenge.
So many excuses for Diana, so many blame for Charles.... Why doesn't that tell you something? It's so easy to sit back in your (probably cozy) computer chair and write that "Charles and Camilla reaped what they had sown" when you are not in the least involved, when you are just an outstander delighting on your own ability to pass judgments on people you'll never, ever meet.
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  #182  
Old 10-05-2007, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
I think it's overstating it to say she was severely mentally ill. She did have some problems as a result of her early experiences, and they weren't helped by her high-profile marriage to someone with whom she was fairly incompatible on a personal level. I think had she not been beautiful and famous, she'd have found it easier to control her problems and seek help; it's also very possible that she wouldn't have had the level of problems that she had.
There really is only one thing that has led me to that conclusion and it is the report(s) that she pushed her stepmother down a flight of stairs. She could have gravely injured her if not killed her in doing so. I think someone either has to be criminally inclined or severely mentally ill to do such a thing. I believe her bulimia and her self acknowledged emotional problems add to that.
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  #183  
Old 10-05-2007, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
I think the question of who was good and who was evil is rather irrelevant. Diana is dead and gone and she herself cannot affect the status of the monarchy any more but the question for the British people now is whether the British monarchy is worth saving.

Unless Charles dies before the Queen, he and Camilla are going to be the face of the future British monarchy and so the state and condition of the monarchy are going to be irretrievably tied up with the status and condition of Charles and Camilla. I know there is talk about Charles dying before the Queen but people shouldn't count on it to prevent Charles from ascending the throne.

If the British people care about the status of the British monarchy, at some point they have to care about the status and condition of Charles and Camilla - and William who comes after. Right now, the whole purpose of the monarchy is to protect the status of the Queen who is its figurehead; at some point, the focus needs to change to protect the status of Charles and Camilla since they are to follow in the Queen's footsteps.

If the British people don't care, then they can get rid of a 1000 year old tradition but once they do, they can't go back.
I agree with you completely. Prince Charles will become a King, unless there is another Cromwell, who will aptly capitalize on external developments and persuade people into getting rid of the monarchy altogether.
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  #184  
Old 10-05-2007, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by diamondBrg View Post
No, she was severely mentally ill and traumatized from a very neglected childhood and expected Prince Charles to make right everything that had gone wrong in her life. Had she not been blond, blue eyed and beautiful and titled, she most likely would have ended up in an Institution for the Mentally Ill. Instead her family and Prince Charles Grandmother manipulated him into a marriage with her.
Although I admire your ability to make such bold assumptions, I would not go that far by presuming that Princess Diana would have ended up in the mental institution.
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  #185  
Old 10-05-2007, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
So many excuses for Diana, so many blame for Charles.... Why doesn't that tell you something? It's so easy to sit back in your (probably cozy) computer chair and write that "Charles and Camilla reaped what they had sown" when you are not in the least involved, when you are just an outstander delighting on your own ability to pass judgments on people you'll never, ever meet.
I am nobody to judge Princess Diana, Prince Charles, Duchess of Cornwall, and other parties involved. It is just my personal observations. I have got my views as well as you have yours. Actually I do blame Princess Diana for poisoning her sons’ lives with acrimonious divorce, bad publicity, and somewhat cloudy and controversial legacy.
I am glad, if you are an insider that have got a right to pass the judgments in question.
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  #186  
Old 10-05-2007, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Although I admire your ability to make such bold assumptions, I would not go that far by presuming that Princess Diana would have ended up in the mental institution.
Allow me to repeat myself, as I don't think it is a bold assumption at all;

"There really is only one thing that has led me to that conclusion and it is the report(s) that she pushed her stepmother down a flight of stairs. She could have gravely injured her if not killed her in doing so. I think someone either has to be criminally inclined or severely mentally ill to do such a thing. I believe her bulimia and her self acknowledged emotional problems add to that."
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  #187  
Old 10-05-2007, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Although I admire your ability to make such bold assumptions, I would not go that far by presuming that Princess Diana would have ended up in the mental institution.
Why not? Two of the queen's Bowes Lyon-cousins ended up there. So the nobility obviously has no problem of taking proper care of their own - even if this includes care at a mental institution.
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  #188  
Old 10-05-2007, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Why not? Two of the queen's Bowes Lyon-cousins ended up there. So the nobility obviously has no problem of taking proper care of their own - even if this includes care at a mental institution.
If you say so ... It is obvious that we are unable to understand each other's views.
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  #189  
Old 10-05-2007, 03:29 PM
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Ladies, help me please.

I'm having a hard time understanding how Diana's mental illness or lack of mental illness is going to affect whether Charles ascends the throne.

One could say that part of Charles and Camilla's lack of popularity and acceptance is because of the publicity campaign that Diana waged against them and because of her mental instability, Diana's truthfulness during the campaign can rightfully be questioned.

But I'm not getting that understanding from your comments. What impact exactly do you find that state of Diana's mental health (good or bad) had on Charles' ability to ascend the throne?
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  #190  
Old 10-05-2007, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
I am nobody to judge Princess Diana, Prince Charles, Duchess of Cornwall, and other parties involved. It is just my personal observations. I have got my views as well as you have yours. Actually I do blame Princess Diana for poisoning her sonsí lives with acrimonious divorce, bad publicity, and somewhat cloudy and controversial legacy.
I am glad, if you are an insider that have got a right to pass the judgments in question.
The divorce was Charles' idea and Diana wasn't the only one who had bad publicity theres also their father.

And how does this pertain to Charles becoming King?
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  #191  
Old 10-05-2007, 04:58 PM
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Actually, HM told the pair of them to divorce, none of which has anything to do with Charles becoming King!
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  #192  
Old 10-05-2007, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Ladies, help me please.

I'm having a hard time understanding how Diana's mental illness or lack of mental illness is going to affect whether Charles ascends the throne.

One could say that part of Charles and Camilla's lack of popularity and acceptance is because of the publicity campaign that Diana waged against them and because of her mental instability, Diana's truthfulness during the campaign can rightfully be questioned.

But I'm not getting that understanding from your comments. What impact exactly do you find that state of Diana's mental health (good or bad) had on Charles' ability to ascend the throne?
I would say that Diana's mental illness played a part in whether or not Charles would ascend the throne because I think it was a major factor in the divorce itself and most especially how it affected her behavior that led up to the divorce both in Charles's eyes and most especially in HM eventually agreeing to the divorce and urging Diana to proceed with it in a timely fashion. The divorce and remarriage of Prince Charles to Camilla certainly had a potential impact and had not the government and major opposition of the day decided not to make an issue of it, could have potentially resulted in Prince Charles not ascending to the throne?
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  #193  
Old 10-05-2007, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by diamondBrg View Post
I would say that Diana's mental illness played a part in whether or not Charles would ascend the throne because I think it was a major factor in the divorce itself and most especially how it affected her behavior that led up to the divorce both in Charles's eyes and most especially in HM eventually agreeing to the divorce and urging Diana to proceed with it in a timely fashion. The divorce and remarriage of Prince Charles to Camilla certainly had a potential impact and had not the government and major opposition of the day decided not to make an issue of it, could have potentially resulted in Prince Charles not ascending to the throne?
Thanks for answering DiamondBrg. Well a divorce can have an impact on opinions about Charles ascending the throne but do you think the divorce in and of itself would have caused public opinion to turn against Charles?

I am thinking of the divorce of Prince Joachim and Princess Alexandra and while Joachim was not heir to the throne, there are hints that either one or the other person was unfaithful in the marriage and the public reception to Joachim and his new wife seems to be much better than that experienced by Charles and Camilla.

I realize that Joachim is not heir to the throne; however, I don't believe that is the only reason that Joachim got a different reception upon his divorce and remarriage than Charles did.
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  #194  
Old 10-05-2007, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Thanks for answering DiamondBrg. Well a divorce can have an impact on opinions about Charles ascending the throne but do you think the divorce in and of itself would have caused public opinion to turn against Charles?

I am thinking of the divorce of Prince Joachim and Princess Alexandra and while Joachim was not heir to the throne, there are hints that either one or the other person was unfaithful in the marriage and the public reception to Joachim and his new wife seems to be much better than that experienced by Charles and Camilla.

I realize that Joachim is not heir to the throne; however, I don't believe that is the only reason that Joachim got a different reception upon his divorce and remarriage than Charles did.
Had Diana conducted herself properly, not have engaged in multiple intimate liaisons while still married to Prince Charles, not have engaged in a public relations war with both Prince Charles and the monoarchy as a whole, not have made obvious attempts to "upstage" and embarass him and Prince Charles had simply divorced her because he wanted his mistress?

I think that could have possibly cost him the throne?
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  #195  
Old 10-05-2007, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by diamondBrg View Post
No, she was severely mentally ill and traumatized from a very neglected childhood and expected Prince Charles to make right everything that had gone wrong in her life. Had she not been blond, blue eyed and beautiful and titled, she most likely would have ended up in an Institution for the Mentally Ill. Instead her family and Prince Charles Grandmother manipulated him into a marriage with her.
The idea Diana was "mentally ill" or manipulated into her marriage has been debunked over and over again. It's true she suffered from an eating disorder, as did her sister, Lady Sarah, and bulimia certainly contributes to depression. She sought treatment and eventually was able to overcome her problem.

Diana and Charles both have stated they got married because they loved each other and for no other reason. While they both may have had doubts about the other, they did have a relatively happy marriage in the early years and enjoyed each other's company. The boys were a joy in their lives and both worked hard in carrying out their public duties.

Diana knew all about Camilla from the start and she did have bouts of jealousy over their friendship. Only when she herself turned outside her marriage for comfort did Charles do the same by resuming his relationship with Camilla. That was the beginning of the end and they both contributed to the eventual failure of the marriage.

Diana became paranoid and angry with the idea Charles fought comfort and friendship with Camilla. The more she focused on it, the more her negative side came out. She became convinced there was a plan to ease her out in favor of eventual remarriage. She refused The Queen and Prince Philip's assurances and offers of help. Eventually, she took her case to the media and tabloids, which was the final nail in the coffin.

Despite all of this, Diana was treated with the highest level of respect and dignity by The Queen, even when she didn't always deserve it. She was the mother of a future king and the weight of her position was always given full support by The Queen.

Once the divorce was over, Diana and Charles became friends again and were rebuilding their relationship for the sake of the boys. She had a good relationship with The Queen and was on her way to regaining a worthwhile public role. Sadly, her time had come and she passed away in a tragic accident.

It's time to let The Princess rest in peace. Charles has remarried and Camilla is now his wife. When the time comes, they will be King and Queen and that's how life goes.
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  #196  
Old 10-05-2007, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by diamondBrg
Had Diana conducted herself properly, not have engaged in multiple intimate liaisons while still married to Prince Charles, not have engaged in a public relations war with both Prince Charles and the monoarchy as a whole, not have made obvious attempts to "upstage" and embarass him and Prince Charles had simply divorced her because he wanted his mistress?

I think that could have possibly cost him the throne?

.
Well I agree that playing all the troubles in the marriage on a public stage had to have affected both Diana's and Charles reputation in the long run and with Charles' reputation goes the reputation of the monarchy as an institution to some extent because he is the heir.

I also agree that Diana preferred more than Charles to play her pain on a public stage.

But I don't necessarily think that mental illness caused Diana to do this; one doesn't need to be mentally ill to want to show the world how horrible another person is. If someone is mentally ill though, one would question that person's judgment though of how horrible the other person really was.

The effects though would be the same whether one is mentally ill or not , don't you think?

Do you think that the aftereffects of playing the marriage troubles on a public stage will still have an impact on whether Charles will be King?

.
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  #197  
Old 10-05-2007, 06:13 PM
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It's time to let The Princess rest in peace. Charles has remarried and Camilla is now his wife. When the time comes, they will be King and Queen and that's how life goes.
Well it appears that what DiamondBrg is saying is that it will affect Charles' ability to be King which is why I am asking the question of why she thinks this way.
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  #198  
Old 10-05-2007, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Well I agree that playing all the troubles in the marriage on a public stage had to have affected both Diana's and Charles reputation in the long run and with Charles' reputation goes the reputation of the monarchy as an institution to some extent because he is the heir.

I also agree that Diana preferred more than Charles to play her pain on a public stage.

But I don't necessarily think that mental illness caused Diana to do this; one doesn't need to be mentally ill to want to show the world how horrible another person is. If someone is mentally ill though, one would question that person's judgment though of how horrible the other person really was.

The effects though would be the same whether one is mentally ill or not , don't you think?

Do you think that the aftereffects of playing the marriage troubles on a public stage will still have an impact on whether Charles will be King?

.
Perhaps you are right. I do agree that if even a few more years pass before HM deceases, there really is no doubt that Prince Charles will become King.
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  #199  
Old 10-05-2007, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by diamondBrg View Post
I would say that Diana's mental illness played a part in whether or not Charles would ascend the throne because I think it was a major factor in the divorce itself and most especially how it affected her behavior that led up to the divorce both in Charles's eyes and most especially in HM eventually agreeing to the divorce and urging Diana to proceed with it in a timely fashion. The divorce and remarriage of Prince Charles to Camilla certainly had a potential impact and had not the government and major opposition of the day decided not to make an issue of it, could have potentially resulted in Prince Charles not ascending to the throne?
Diana's "illness" had nothing to do with whether Charles could or would ascend the throne. The Act of Settlement governs the succession and Charles is next in-line after the death of The Queen as the lineal descendant of The Electress Sophia. Unless Parliament acts otherwise, he will automatically be King.

The divorce did raise questions as to whether The Church would accept a divorced King on the throne. While these were important issues, there is nothing in the law stopping The King from being a divorcee or marrying a divorcee. Technically, the Church is subordinate to the King as Supreme Governor.

The comparisons to Edward VIII and his proposed marriage to Wallis Simpson do not apply whatsoever. For one thing, Charles is already married to Camilla and she shares his titles and rank. For another, The Church accepted his remarriage and there is no longer a prohibition on divorce or remarriage in the faith.
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  #200  
Old 10-05-2007, 06:21 PM
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Branchg wrote:

"The idea Diana was "mentally ill" or manipulated into her marriage has been debunked over and over again."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you consider someone who literally pushes an older lady down a flight of stairs on purpose mentally stable?
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