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  #521  
Old 10-13-2005, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
But I think the Counsellors of State are a subset of the Privy Council, right, Elspeth?
The Counsellors of State are more of a 'subset of a chairperson' :) of the Privy Council--they act as substitutes to the monarch, which incudes presiding at the Privy Council meetings when the monarch is unable to do it.
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  #522  
Old 10-13-2005, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caroline mathilda
Remember this is a global society and we all take an interest in what is going on in other countries. As is human nature, people express all sorts of opinions on issues which might not directly concern them. Ig, "everybody" has an opinion on political issues in the States even those which might not have international impact.
I speak to many from the United Kingdom who constantly express to me that they are not enamoured of the President of my country. I am not enamoured either, but they express their views to me quite vehemently. It has nothing to do with them either--they do not vote here. I would say the score is even. Everyone has an opinion on just about everything and that is that.
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  #523  
Old 10-13-2005, 06:50 PM
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Re;

I speak to many from the United Kingdom who constantly express to me that they are not enamoured of the President of my country.

I think thats a little different considering the circumstances. Mr Bush has alot to answer for here in the UK.
  #524  
Old 10-13-2005, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
Everyone has an opinion on just about everything...
And THAT dear friends is what makes these Royal discussion boards so very delightful!

Caroline Mathilda
  #525  
Old 10-13-2005, 08:27 PM
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Well, without getting into a political discussion, I think there's truth on both sides of this one. The US president certainly does have more influence on the UK than Charles and Camilla do on the US, but that isn't the only reason why people in the UK express opinions about him. I'm sure people in the UK also express opinions about politicians in countries that don't really affect the UK directly, because news these days is global so we all know more about what's going on worldwide than we used to.
  #526  
Old 10-13-2005, 09:23 PM
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Back to the question of the thread, I think Charles will succeed his mother and if he does it in five years or so Camilla will be queen.

I hope the Coronation ceremony doesn't get cut down too much. I want to see St. Edwards crown, the Scepter with Cullinan diamond, the Sword of State, the Coronation Ring, the armills, the spurs, the Royal orb, the robes and St. Edwards chair. I think the coronation ceremony will get cut down by the time William becomes king and I want one last time to see how its really done.
  #527  
Old 10-13-2005, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
The Counsellors of State are more of a 'subset of a chairperson' :) of the Privy Council--they act as substitutes to the monarch, which incudes presiding at the Privy Council meetings when the monarch is unable to do it.
Ah thanks, so who are the Counsellors of States? The Queen, Prince of Wales, Prince Philip?
  #528  
Old 10-13-2005, 09:51 PM
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I dont want the coronation ceremony to be cut down either or changed that much. It has been pracitcly the same for the past 1000 years. It would be a real loss to lose it. I hope they dont change the acension ceremonies either. I have to see the coronation as it has always been for the past 1000 at least once in my life. I hope it doesnt change or disappear, whats the point of having a monarchy if we cant celebrate it and have its grand traditions. Maybe the monarchies are set to collapse soon.
  #529  
Old 10-13-2005, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I speak to many from the United Kingdom who constantly express to me that they are not enamoured of the President of my country.

I think thats a little different considering the circumstances. Mr Bush has alot to answer for here in the UK.
If we follow your line of reasoning, you should be taking it up with Mr. Blair. We Americans vote for our president, and you vote for your Prime Minister. Mr Blair is the one who is leading Great Britain down the path it is going. He doesn't have to listen to our President. The person who has a lot to answer for in Great Britain is Mr. Blair. In the USA, it is President Bush.
  #530  
Old 10-13-2005, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Ah thanks, so who are the Counsellors of States? The Queen, Prince of Wales, Prince Philip?
The Queen isn't one, because the Counsellors of State act for the Queen when she's out of the country or incapacitated in some way. At present they're Prince Philip, Prince Charles, Prince William, Prince Harry, and Prince Andrew.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page344.asp
  #531  
Old 10-14-2005, 01:24 AM
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Question

I have a question. Were the queen to be in a situation analagous to the situation George III encountered in the early part of the 19th century (i.e. mental illness, some other illness or other thing which impaired her mental or physical faculties enough to prevent her from adequately fulfilling her duties), is there still a law on the books under which Prince Charles could become regent? I know that such a move was put into practice only once before in recent British history (the regency of George, Prince of Wales- who later became George IV- during the so-called "madness of King George).
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  #532  
Old 10-14-2005, 02:10 AM
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Yes, Prince Charles would become regent.

During George VI's reign before Princess Elizabeth turned 18, the Duke of Gloucester (father of the present Duke and brother closest in age to the King) was Regent Designate. I think that Princess Margaret was Regent Designate for Prince Charles in the early part of the Queen's reign but was replaced by Prince Philip at some point, but the need disappeared when Charles turned 18. Charles would be Regent if the Queen was permanently unable to carry out her duties, whereas the Counsellors of State would take over if she was only temporarily incapacitated. I'm not sure if new legislation would be needed to activate a regency, though. I expect some of our more learned constitutional scholars will be able to supply an answer.
  #533  
Old 10-14-2005, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Yes, Prince Charles would become regent.

During George VI's reign before Princess Elizabeth turned 18, the Duke of Gloucester (father of the present Duke and brother closest in age to the King) was Regent Designate. I think that Princess Margaret was Regent Designate for Prince Charles in the early part of the Queen's reign but was replaced by Prince Philip at some point, but the need disappeared when Charles turned 18. Charles would be Regent if the Queen was permanently unable to carry out her duties, whereas the Counsellors of State would take over if she was only temporarily incapacitated. I'm not sure if new legislation would be needed to activate a regency, though. I expect some of our more learned constitutional scholars will be able to supply an answer.
I'm not sure about Princess Margaret, but the Duke of Edinburgh was named as a regent-designate in the Regency Act 1953: 'His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, if living, shall be the Regent unless, or (as the case may be) until, there is a child or grandchild of Her Majesty and His Royal Highness who can under the provisions of the said Act be the Regent.'

That Act is still in force, and now it allows the Prince of Wales to assume regency were the Queen incapacitated. I'm pretty sure, though, that if Charles were to become a regent, a new law to this effect would be passed by the UK Parliament.
  #534  
Old 10-14-2005, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
I'm not sure about Princess Margaret, but the Duke of Edinburgh was named as a regent-designate in the Regency Act 1953: 'His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, if living, shall be the Regent unless, or (as the case may be) until, there is a child or grandchild of Her Majesty and His Royal Highness who can under the provisions of the said Act be the Regent.'

That Act is still in force, and now it allows the Prince of Wales to assume regency were the Queen incapacitated. I'm pretty sure, though, that if Charles were to become a regent, a new law to this effect would be passed by the UK Parliament.
I'm surprised a new act wasn't passed when Charles came of age.
  #535  
Old 10-14-2005, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I'm surprised a new act wasn't passed when Charles came of age.
I suppose the fact that the original act states something about there being a child or grandchild of the Queen and Duke being able to take over the duties of regent means that there is no need to have a new act during the reign of the present Queen as the situation is that there are now 8 people who qualify under that definition - Prince Charles, Prince William, Prince Harry, Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, Princess Anne, Peter Philips and Zara Philips are all old enough to take on the role of regent and within a year Princess Beatrice will also qualify.

I would expect a new Act at some time in the next reign.

It reminds me of my father's will - written on 3rd Feb., 1952 the day after he got married. He has never changed it in any way and it covers every contingency (ihncluding the possibility of children on said marriage - there were two) - as does this act.
  #536  
Old 10-14-2005, 06:25 AM
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Regency Procedure Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I'm surprised a new act wasn't passed when Charles came of age.
I would think there are two aspects to a Regency: the Regency Act where who can be Regent is defined (thanks Mapple); and there would have to be an "instrument" which legally grants the Regent the powers of a defacto Monarch.

What is the procedure for declaring the Monarch "incapacitated"? Is this action the trigger for an automatic state of "Regency", or does this require another Act of Parliament?
How many stages are there from assessing and determining an incapacity to the formal declaration of a "Prince Regent"?
.
  #537  
Old 10-14-2005, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
I would think there are two aspects to a Regency: the Regency Act where who can be Regent is defined (thanks Mapple); and there would have to be an "instrument" which legally grants the Regent the powers of a defacto Monarch.

What is the procedure for declaring the Monarch "incapacitated"? Is this action the trigger for an automatic state of "Regency", or does this require another Act of Parliament?
How many stages are there from assessing and determining an incapacity to the formal declaration of a "Prince Regent"?
.
Good question Warren. And I guess the other question, who out of all the possible Regents would be Regent. (I know it should be Charles, but given how the act is written how will it actually be determined that it is Charles?)

I hope people don't think this topic is too morbid. No disrespect to the Queen is intended. I wish Her Majesty good health until she goes.

The monarchy though is quite unique that some of its most defining moments come at a death or an incapacitation and sometimes its interesting to ponder those what-ifs.
  #538  
Old 10-14-2005, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
I would think there are two aspects to a Regency: the Regency Act where who can be Regent is defined (thanks Mapple); and there would have to be an "instrument" which legally grants the Regent the powers of a defacto Monarch.

What is the procedure for declaring the Monarch "incapacitated"? Is this action the trigger for an automatic state of "Regency", or does this require another Act of Parliament?
How many stages are there from assessing and determining an incapacity to the formal declaration of a "Prince Regent"?
.
From the Regency Act 1937: 'If the following persons or any three or more of them, that is to say, the wife or husband of the Sovereign, the Lord Chancellor, the Speaker of the House of Commons, the Lord Chief Justice of England, and the Master of the Rolls, declare in writing that they are satisfied by evidence which shall include the evidence of physicians that the Sovereign is by reason of infirmity of mind or body incapable for the time being of performing the royal functions or that they are satisfied by evidence that the Sovereign is for some definite cause not available for the performance of those functions, then, until it is declared in like manner that His Majesty has so far recovered His health as to warrant His resumption of the royal functions or has become available for the performance thereof, as the case may be, those functions shall be performed in the name and on behalf of the Sovereign by a Regent.'

Thus, surprisingly, a separate Act of Parliament is not required for establishing a regency--a declaration of three eminent persons suffices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Good question Warren. And I guess the other question, who out of all the possible Regents would be Regent. (I know it should be Charles, but given how the act is written how will it actually be determined that it is Charles?)

...
Again I'm quoting the Regency Act 1937: '
  1. If a Regency becomes necessary under this Act, the Regent shall be that person who, excluding any persons disqualified under this section, is next in the line of succession to the Crown.
  2. A person shall be disqualified from becoming or being Regent, if he is not a British subject of full age and domiciled in some part of the United Kingdom, or is a person who would, under section two of the Act of Settlement, be incapable of inheriting, possessing, and enjoying the Crown; and section three of the Act of Settlement shall apply in the case of a Regent as it applies in the case of a Sovereign.'
So, an earlier law establishes Charles as a regent-designate.
  #539  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:11 AM
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Re:

The person who has a lot to answer for in Great Britain is Mr. Blair.

Oh don't worry - he's getting a good grilling too!

As to Counsellors of State, Princess Alexandra served as one during the sixties I believe.

I think we might see a kind of regency. It always make me wonder why these people think that the Queen will outlive Prince Charles - she is nearly 80 and he is in his late 50s - why on earth would he pop off so early?

The Queen has done a marvellous job and I think a regency would ease Charles into the role of King.
  #540  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:41 AM
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That declaration is sort of interesting because hasn't Tony Blair abolished the post of Lord Chancellor? If the Queen outlives the Duke of Edinburgh, and in the absence of a Lord Chancellor, to say nothing about Blair's tinkering with the House of Lords such that one of these days there may not be a Lord Chief Justice either, we may run out of enough eminent people to make this declaration.

I see the Prime Minister isn't on the list. Interesting omission.
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