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  #441  
Old 10-10-2005, 03:21 PM
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Thanks iowabelle. I think it would be very silly if he does though even if its for his grandmother. It would look like he's trying to create a new image when the world already knows him as Charles.

JMHO, which I know doesn't mean much to those who count, I think he's better off with Charles III and living with his past both the triumphs and the mistakes.
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  #442  
Old 10-10-2005, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowabelle
Charles has said he wants to rule as George VII. It's a fitting tribute to his grandparents, especially his beloved grandmother. (Don't forget his grandfather was George VI!)

It's difficult to describe the reigns of either Charles I or Charles II as particularly auspicious.

I don't think he would ever choose Philip, given the problems with his father... and the specter of the previous Philip, husband to Queen Mary (Tudor).
Charles has never been quoted as saying he would reign as George VII. People close to his Household have said this, but we don't know if that's true or not.

If he wants to pay tribute to his grandfather, then he should reign as King Albert I. George VI was simply a gesture to signal continuity with his father's values and reign after the damage to the monarchy by the Duke of Windsor.
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  #443  
Old 10-10-2005, 05:04 PM
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Re:

and reign after the damage to the monarchy by the Duke of Windsor.

That is if you count it to be damage. I think he showed that Royals are human beings too and fall in love with the same passion and devotion as commoners do.
Maybe Charles should become Edward IX as that could apply to him.
  #444  
Old 10-10-2005, 06:13 PM
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Prince Charles could never become King Albert for the same reason his grandfather did not. Queen Victoria wrote in her will or something that she wishes no future monarch take the name of her beloved husband or after herself. So there will never be another Queen Victoria. I think sticking with Charles would be a very english thing to do. But, I actually really like George and would want him to be George VII. George is more kingly to me and it would follow tradition. There are many parallels between Q Victore and P Edward and Q Elizabeth and P Charles. Both Queens are highly respectable and both over saw major changes in their empires. They became monarchs young and lived for a long time. Their sons were both scandalous prince of wales. But, Prince Edward became a popular King so I have great hope for Charles.
  #445  
Old 10-10-2005, 06:49 PM
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I too hope Charles will reign as Charles III. To modern eyes and ears it would seem a bit archaic to be known by your Christian name for most of your life and then chuk it to become "somebody else."

I know Popes do this, but I trust that Prince Charles would rather the monarchy be more relevant, modern, and simplified and thus would not want to stand "behind" a ceremonial name.

Yet not only does he admire his grandfathaer George VI, but he is an avid fan of GeorgeIII. Thus we might indeed see a George VII.

Caroline Mathilda
  #446  
Old 10-10-2005, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
tiaraprin, wasn't it you who said the discussion of which crown prince would succeed first was morbid because it was speculating on which monarch was going to die first?

How is it different when you have a ferverent wish that Charles die before he has a chance to acceed the throne? He may well die before his mother but praying and wishing that he die before her is like putting a death wish on him. That's morbid.
It wasn't me.
  #447  
Old 10-10-2005, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
If I had my way, William would never be King. His mother was nothing but a damaging force to the Monarchy - if he follows her example and not his grandmothers then the Monarchy will become a laughing stock and will crumble.

I'd much prefer to see Queen Beatrice after King Charles but unless William and Harry are killed, illegitimate or marry catholics - it aint gonna happen.

And no, I'm not wishing them dead, insinuating that they are illegitimate or are set up with catholics!
If it were not for Diana, the Monarchy would not have woken up to the fact of how old fashioned and stuffy it was. It needed a breath of fresh air and Diana provided it. She also showed she cared about people. Despite her personal errors, Diana was a great attribute to the Monarchy in many ways and William will continue that caring tradition.

To quote Christopher Wilson from The Windsor Knot:

Diana was the brightest shining star in The British Royal Family in nearly 500 years. In her time as princess she brought luster, freshness, and a new sense of purpose to a tired and rudderless institution. . .Diana was able to use the fascination people retain for credible royalty to draw attention to other matters. . .Her celebrity was a positive force for good--that much cannot be denied, despite the revisionist theories which have been floated (mostly by Prince Charles' camp) since her death in 1997. She gave a new zest and a new meaning to royalty. (pp 8)
  #448  
Old 10-10-2005, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caroline mathilda
I too hope Charles will reign as Charles III. To modern eyes and ears it would seem a bit archaic to be known by your Christian name for most of your life and then chuk it to become "somebody else."
I agree. I don't see any reason why he would not be Charles III. This so-called "tribute" to his grandfather doesn't make any sense to me. His name was Albert, not George.
  #449  
Old 10-10-2005, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
It wasn't me.
My apologies, tiaraprin. I thought in the thread that someone else had said it and you agreed. When I looked back I found I was mistaken.
  #450  
Old 10-10-2005, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by branchg
I agree. I don't see any reason why he would not be Charles III. This so-called "tribute" to his grandfather doesn't make any sense to me. His name was Albert, not George.
Plus Charles says he doesn't even remember his grandfather. It would be different if they were close when he was a child.
  #451  
Old 10-10-2005, 07:53 PM
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I dont think it is ment as a tribute to his grandfather but rather that he likes George more. Like I said choosing Charles would be the english and modern thing to do but I still would love a George VII. I think it is the bigger number. It sounds more regal to me.
  #452  
Old 10-10-2005, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
and reign after the damage to the monarchy by the Duke of Windsor.

That is if you count it to be damage. I think he showed that Royals are human beings too and fall in love with the same passion and devotion as commoners do.
Maybe Charles should become Edward IX as that could apply to him.
I don't believe Edward abdicated because he was in love with Wallis. She was a convenient excuse for him to relinquish the throne he really never wanted in the first place. He wasn't stupid enough to believe the Establishment would ever sanction a marriage to a person of such poor character and background.
  #453  
Old 10-10-2005, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
Prince Charles could never become King Albert for the same reason his grandfather did not. Queen Victoria wrote in her will or something that she wishes no future monarch take the name of her beloved husband or after herself. So there will never be another Queen Victoria. I think sticking with Charles would be a very english thing to do. But, I actually really like George and would want him to be George VII. George is more kingly to me and it would follow tradition. There are many parallels between Q Victore and P Edward and Q Elizabeth and P Charles. Both Queens are highly respectable and both over saw major changes in their empires. They became monarchs young and lived for a long time. Their sons were both scandalous prince of wales. But, Prince Edward became a popular King so I have great hope for Charles.
Actually quite the opposite was true. Victoria wished to see an unbroken line of Albert's & Victoria's. Her son was Albert Edward and most of her grandchildren had either Albert, Victor, Victoria or Alberta in their list of names.
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  #454  
Old 10-10-2005, 08:22 PM
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I wasnt talking about names of Prince and Princess but rather Kings and Queens. I am nearly 90% sure it was Queen Victorias wishes that no monarch use Albert or Victoria as their name when they become king or queen. That is why Prince Albert became King George.
  #455  
Old 10-10-2005, 08:26 PM
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I thought Victoria didn't want a King Albert either?
  #456  
Old 10-10-2005, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
I don't believe Edward abdicated because he was in love with Wallis. She was a convenient excuse for him to relinquish the throne he really never wanted in the first place. He wasn't stupid enough to believe the Establishment would ever sanction a marriage to a person of such poor character and background.
How do we know that Wallis was "of poor character & background"?

In fact she came from one of the leading society families of Baltimore and her mother was a member of another of these families. The Warfields were quite wealthy but, as Wallis's father died when she was a baby and her mother had little income of her own. Wallis's uncle Solomon Warfield supported his sister-in-law and niece during Wallis's childhood and he funded her launch into society.

As far as her character, we have made much of the fact that Diana was right to free herself from a loveless marriage & yet we castigate Wallis for divorcing her first husband who was abusing her both physically and mentally. In that day and age a divorcee was not socially acceptable so Wallis obviously took the first chance of "protection" in Ernest Simpson. I'm sure she didn't anticipate (or plan) falling in love with the Prince of Wales.
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  #457  
Old 10-10-2005, 09:05 PM
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Charles will rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by grecka
As disliked as he is now, in both Britain and abroad, will Charles ever become king or will the British send him packing?
Of course Charles will become king. Being king is based on birth not a meritocracy or who is best suited for the job at the time. If that were the case, the Duke of Kent might have been king instead of George the VI after the abdication. The idea was floated about by the gov't of the time and the Royals refused...heredity ruled.
  #458  
Old 10-10-2005, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I thought Victoria didn't want a King Albert either?
Hello ysbel,

Actually, His Majesty the King Edward VII was infact meant to be known as King Albert Edward upon his mothers highest expectations. Her Majesty the Queen Alexandrina Victoria wished for 'Bertie' to be known as Albert Edward as a tribute to his beloved father (and was actually highly in favour of her husbands name being used by future Monarchs aswell). There had never been a British sovereign to use two joint names before.

Its was 'Bertie' who chose not to take the title Albert Edward as this was his way of freeing himself from his mothers grasp (it shows how influential the Queen/Empress was even in death) and defining his own position within the new Edwardian era.

My kind regards,

"MII"
  #459  
Old 10-10-2005, 11:39 PM
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I think he's going to stick with Charles. His mother didn't change her name when she assended the throne and I think some people (the press especially) will find it confusing if he were to change his name. If he wished to honor his grandfather then why didn't he want William's name to be George? Didn't he want William's name to be Arthur or something?
  #460  
Old 10-10-2005, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
I don't believe Edward abdicated because he was in love with Wallis. She was a convenient excuse for him to relinquish the throne he really never wanted in the first place. He wasn't stupid enough to believe the Establishment would ever sanction a marriage to a person of such poor character and background.
I doubt he took up with her just so that he'd have an excuse to abdicate (although I assume that isn't what you're suggesting). It sounds as though he was infatuated with her in the same way that his brother the Duke of York was infatuated by Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon and his great-nephew was/is infatuated by Camilla. If he'd ended up being infatuated by someone eminently suitable to be Queen, I wonder if he'd have tried getting out of kingship in some other way or what he'd have done.

I think Wymanda has a good point about Wallis's character and background. If she'd been a single woman with whom the King had fallen in love, no doubt the press would have devoted gallons of ink to her position as a member of two of America's oldest and most aristocratic families, with the "poor relation" aspect romaticised to the point where she'd have been presented as a latter-day Cinderella.

She showed a lot of courage in standing up to her family and getting out of what seems to have been a dangerously abusive first marriage; if the Prince of Wales hadn't become attached to her, she probably would have stayed with her second husband. It's one of the unfortunate aspects of society until relatively recently that respectability was considered more important than physical safety. It sounds as though her Uncle Solomon would have been happier if she'd have stayed with Win Spencer at the risk of her life; attending her funeral and squeezing out some crocodile tears at the sad "accident" that had ended her life would have appealed to him a great deal more than being related to a divorced woman. Personally I'm glad those days are, for the most part, behind us.
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