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  #181  
Old 08-17-2005, 09:28 AM
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Part of the fascination with a monarchy is the fact that the throne does not go to the most capable, most popular, but to the eldest son of the monarch and his wife whoever they happen to be and however disgusting they are to some people. And the outstanding thing is that the monarchy has survived for hundreds of years despite this crazy succession planning.

A list of terrible kings and nasty queens of England would be quite long and yet the institution survives into the 21st century. Its a modern marvel to say the least and I find it fascinating to see an institution carry on no matter the personal defects of its individual members.

Charles does have his faults but two things people fault him for have actually earned my admiration: he decided in middle age that Camilla was the woman for him and he stuck to his guns. He'd never before stuck it out and fought for what he needed. It showed guts and a level of self-awareness and self-preservation that he hadn't shown before. Its impossible to be there for others unless you take care of yourself first.

Secondly, his outspoken opinions on issues of importance. We all have opinions on things around us and while I agree the royals shouldn't try to step in and actively interfere with politics, to hold them to a standard that they never express an opinion makes them even more out of touch with the rest of us who do have an opinion and express it. It makes them look more wooden and unnatural. The Queen doesn't express an opinion but that is her nature. And you'll notice that its very hard to change the Queen's mind once she has it set. That is the problem dealing with people who don't express an opinion. We learn and we grow by sharing our beliefs and opinions and interacting with others. Public figures grow in their public role by interacting with the public and occasionally expressing an opinion and catching some flak for it. Its all how humans are supposed to live together on this planet. Cutting that right from Charles just because he's Prince of Wales is unnatural.
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  #182  
Old 08-17-2005, 09:36 AM
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People also need to remember that the whole Charles and Diana thing isn't the first scandal to hit the royal family and it won't be the last. All you have to do is look at the history of the Monarchy in Britian to see every couple of Kings/Queens you get a few "interesting" folks. But no one has stopped the monarchy yet. People are not going to end the monarchy b/c of Charles and Charles alone.

Plus, I don't think he is as bad as people make him out to be. He was extremely popular before he married Diana.

Diana was no saint either. Yes, she looked great, and did a ton of Charity work. But she had issues long before she met Charles.

Charles did bad stuff too. But is only place the blame on him at 50%. I am glad he and Camilla finally got married. I wish them well. I think we have to wait until he becomes king before we condem him.

Besides, I think he will make sure William has a much easier time of it than he did. He is extremely supporitve of William and Harry in a private way. He doesn't need publicity about it. There are many ways in which Wills/Harry have been raised as opposed to Charles. Diana isn't solely responsible for it. Both Charles and Diana made the decisions. I"m sure Charles will allow William to marry a girl he loves as opposed to having to only marry a blue blood.
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  #183  
Old 08-17-2005, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
I do understand what you are saying iowabelle. I will be really honest here. I don't care if Charles gets "smacked in the face" but I do care about William. I see your point of letting him have a normal life for as long as possible and I do advocate for that on the threads. I lost sight for my concern for William due to my antipathy for Charles.

I fear what will happen when and if Charles becomes King and what he is going to do, what title Camilla is going to get that she doesn't deserve. It could destroy the monarchy. I want to know that the monarchy is going into the 21st century stronger with a good heir to the throne.

I am trying to express what I truly feel here without using base, common language. I am trying to explain in the most proper way possible my feelings on this subject.
Tiaraprin, I think you were responding to the quotation from Alexandria in your last post (not to my comments).

I agree, I'm not thrilled with Charles' behavior. But unless something astonishing happens the British are stuck with him.
  #184  
Old 08-17-2005, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
I fear what will happen when and if Charles becomes King and what he is going to do,
I wouldn't worry about it; most people, including the government, know that he won't have a long reign, and they'll be looking at him as a place-holder more than anything. His inclination to meddle in government matters will have been noted, and I doubt he'll be a match for the combined determination of the Cabinet and the senior civil service.

Quote:
what title Camilla is going to get that she doesn't deserve. It could destroy the monarchy.
If the Abdication didn't destroy the monarchy, this won't. I think the most likely thing that'll destroy the monarchy is a combination of public apathy and Prime Ministerial personal ambition. The way people feel about Charles, Camilla, and William isn't best described as apathy. However much people dislike Charles and Camilla, there are still crowds in evidence in photos of their public engagements, and the country has survived knowing that she's now de facto Princess of Wales using the title of a senior royal Duchess. The monarchy is more likely to be harmed if William comes to the throne before having a chance to have a life and goes off the rails as a result or has his family life damaged by his duties.

Quote:
I want to know that the monarchy is going into the 21st century stronger with a good heir to the throne.
Personally I think William will be a better heir for waiting a bit longer. If Charles predeceases the Queen, as she gets yet older she'll be relying on William, who isn't old enough himself to take on the responsibility.
  #185  
Old 08-17-2005, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicky
What are the "political views" that everyone keeps mentioning? I know about his stance on architecture, on organic farming and the like lol, but what are his political views?
He was rather critical of Mrs Thatcher and Thatcherism in the 1980s, believing that the political direction of those times was too focused on ideology and indifferent to the effects of the ideology on the lives of vulnerable people. It was felt at the time that as the heir to the throne, he shouldn't be giving the impression of trying to undermine the government even if he disagreed with it.
  #186  
Old 08-17-2005, 12:31 PM
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Thanks Elspeth. I was also thinking of a particular event, it must have been in the seventies, where there were race riots or something in England (London?), and he invited the rioters into Buckingham Palace to talk to them......I know that's pretty vague and probably wrong but that's all I can recall.
  #187  
Old 08-17-2005, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
I fear what will happen when and if Charles becomes King and what he is going to do, what title Camilla is going to get that she doesn't deserve. It could destroy the monarchy. I want to know that the monarchy is going into the 21st century stronger with a good heir to the throne.
I don't think Charles will have, as a monarch, such a free reign that we should be fearful of what might happen. I wouldn't be too worried either way though lol.

And as far as Camilla not deserving the title, a title is not a mark of one's humanity, one's goodness or one's self really, it is a title. Maybe some see a lot of symbolism in it, but after all Diana was never Queen, and she never displayed any aspiration to be Queen. I just don't see the association. Camilla, if Charles becomes King, will be the Queen. Even if they keep the whole 'Princess Consort' deal, she's still Queen. And I don't mean to sound harsh but that's just how it works. :o
  #188  
Old 08-17-2005, 01:00 PM
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In my opinion, most of the issues are already settled and there isn't going to be any controversy with Charles' reign or Camilla becoming Queen Consort. William is too young and inexperienced to be doing anything other than being himself and learning about life right now. He is already taking on some duties on behalf of the Queen and will continue to do so as time goes on.

Today's royal life is dramatically different compared with the Queen or Prince Charles' childhood experiences. In order to be effective and carry out his duty, William must be able to grow as an individual, while being guided by the Queen and Prince Charles in royal duties. Forcing him onto the throne unprepared would be a disaster.
  #189  
Old 08-17-2005, 01:58 PM
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I think that Charles will be accepted, perhaps with no much enthusiasm, but he will. He's criticised for things concerning both his private and public life, but I think he's also been doing a good work.
People should also understand that skipping a generation could force William on the thone when he's still too young, unless the Queen reaches 100 years or more.
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  #190  
Old 08-19-2005, 08:46 PM
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I think Charles will be accepted with great love and joy that will surprise many of the commentators on this forum. Don't you agree branch?

The wedding was a great success and Camilla is now admired as a style icon. There's a groundswell in her favour where ladies her age - mums and middle aged women - are saying good for her.

It depends how long the Queen lives as to whether Camilla gets to become Queen in name.
  #191  
Old 08-19-2005, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
I think Charles will be accepted with great love and joy that will surprise many of the commentators on this forum. Don't you agree branch?

The wedding was a great success and Camilla is now admired as a style icon.
Don't include me in the great love and joy acceptance of Charles. I will never be a member of that group!

Camilla a fashion icon?? Never in a million years!!
  #192  
Old 08-19-2005, 10:22 PM
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It was style icon, not fashion icon.

I mean, some of us are sort of old too, you know, and it's nice to see that the old gal can step out looking halfway reasonable at her advanced age.
  #193  
Old 08-19-2005, 10:31 PM
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I guess. While I don't really see Camilla becoming one of the beloved members of the royal family, I don't see her becoming one of the most hated. As she's turned into an older lady who hobbles around in tailored suits and big hats, I think that the evil masterminding image a lot of people had of her has softened. I hear that the majority of the British public is pretty apathetic towards the whole thing anyway.
  #194  
Old 08-19-2005, 10:38 PM
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The only way Charles was going to be excepted as a King was as long as Diana was living.When Charles announced his infedelity towards Diana,the whole world(maybe just me)was shocked.To me Camilla is a constant reminder of what Diana went through.Sure,she can be happy and a "style icon,"and ,maybe even a step mother to Harry and William,but I just can't see her as a Queen along side Charles.:(
  #195  
Old 08-19-2005, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polop
The only way Charles was going to be excepted as a King was as long as Diana was living.When Charles announced his infedelity towards Diana,the whole world(maybe just me)was shocked.To me Camilla is a constant reminder of what Diana went through.Sure,she can be happy and a "style icon,"and ,maybe even a step mother to Harry and William,but I just can't see her as a Queen along side Charles.:(
Thank you!! Someone who understands me!!!
  #196  
Old 08-19-2005, 10:58 PM
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I can see Camilla as Queen with Charles a heck of a lot better than I could see Diana as Queen with Charles! :p
  #197  
Old 08-19-2005, 11:11 PM
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I think Diana left a mixed legacy. She had an uncanny ability to connect with people but she also declared open war against the Windsors and a lot of people got tired of the War of the Windsors to the point that they didn't care who started it. I was one of them. It was embarassing and unseemly.

People are not so glad to see Camilla as Queen but relieved to find the war has stopped.
  #198  
Old 08-19-2005, 11:37 PM
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Well said Ysbel. Neither Diana or Charles were saints. I'm just happy that the war of the Wales is all over and charles is moving on with his life.
  #199  
Old 08-19-2005, 11:41 PM
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I know that some of you will say what about Diana, she can't get on with her life, she's dead. Well I'm afraid to say, that should she have used the personal protection officers that the UK govt. wanted her to use, she probably would not have ended up dead by a drunk driver. I wish that she had lived long enough to find real happiness. Nobody deserves to be as miserable as those two were while married to each other.JMO
  #200  
Old 08-20-2005, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
I think Charles will be accepted with great love and joy that will surprise many of the commentators on this forum. Don't you agree branch?
"Great love and joy" is probably pushing it, Frothy! But, unless the Queen suddenly passes away, I think sufficient time will have passed by the time Charles ascends the throne for the public to accept Camilla as Queen Consort. So far, she seems to be doing very well in her public appearances and is a solid addition to the team.
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