Charles and Camilla: Visit to Japan, Brunei & Indonesia - October 27-November 4, 2008

[Skydragon]

Had no idea that the Duchess posted here.

You don't have to be a royal to go on a tour representing you country or industry. It seems very easy to judge something you have never done.

The same way someone will say they hate sushi, never having tried it! I tried it and hated it, so I can say I hate sushi, love smoked salmon though, (must be wild caught not farmed).

 

[Mermaid1962]

Slighty off topic, but I remember that the Queen was considered an "honourary man" during her Gulf Tour of the late 70s. So I'm sure that any Muslim country could make exceptions for certain females if they wanted to.

I'm not sure if you realise this but Indonesia isn't Iran, muslim countries aren't all like Iran or Saudi Arabia...

 

[COUNTESS]

The problem isn't whther she is doing this or not, it is what is expected of her by her subjects. Some will see this as shirking, others don't care. She is not that old, I am much older and log many miles each years, standing for hours to meeting and greeting people. It is tiring, more so, when you don't have a retinue to take care of all your bags, etc.

As for charters, which the prince will be flying to and from, so it is already paid for, the small charter, charge per passenger, when you charter a full size jet, there is an hourly cost and you can bring along as many as allowed. Her absence won't save a penny.

She needs time to regroup to fly to go to serveral Memorial Services, where she will arrive and leave and then to France, 1/2 flight to sit and then a birthday party. What is she going to do when she is older?

 

[Madame Royale]

If Camilla is as lazy as a number of people seem to think, then surely she wouldn't go on the trip at all and would stay at home? To ask a 61 year old woman - royal or not - to do everything you want her to do is abit much isn't it?

61? I know she isn't part of a 'reigning team' yet, but seriously...when compared to the work ethics of other senior members of the royal family who are themselves older or near enough the same age, I see not that her age should be an acceptable pretext. That would certainly portray an image of a feeble woman unable to go the yards that are, and rightly so, expected of her. Certainly in an official capacity.

If it's health related then I could understand, but as there is nothing to suggest that is the case...

Menarue has made mention of bad PR, and she may well be on the money. The reasons given do not justify the decision, imo.

 

[milla Ca]

When Camilla is doing a great job (day by day) only some people here mention this and have some good words for her,
but when she maybe shows a little weakness she gets such a harsh criticism from so many of you.
Is this fair?

 

[Madame Royale]

Personally, I've never subjected Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall to any criticism that could be perceived as anything but encouraging or supportive. I don't follow all her engagements but when I do have a look at what she's been up to I've not had a bad word to say, besides perhaps a comment on an a particular item of clothing I've not much liked. Other than that I generally never find fault with the way she handles herself or the way in which she undertakes her duties. Quite the contrary!

And my criticisms in this instance, are anything but harsh.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

If it's health related then I could understand, but as there is nothing to suggest that is the case...

If a reference to the climate is not "health related", then I wonder what it is. In fact, have we seen her going on holiday to a region with a hot climate ever since her surgery? I know she was in Egypt, India, the Caribbean but that were official trips. Holidays, anyone? I only recall Scotland since which is rarely hot, though could be humid...

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Had no idea that the Duchess posted here.

There are other kinds of official trips. I'm eg am a journalist travelling on representing the readers of the paper/magazine who will print my article. Thus my hosts are interested that I be pampered and meet the right people in order to get the right impression of their country. So these trips have some similarities to official trips, it's only without paparazzi. But it's not only journalists who do such travels, businesspeople or politicians do the same.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

A boss in working life would not accept if a businessman or woman decided to fly home during a tour of the Middle East to negotiate business contracts just because he/she thought a country was too hot and humid, the same goes for the royals.

But a boss would be informed about the real background and then decide if it was right. We do not know the whole situation but some here assume that they do when even the queen and the government okayed Camilla's decision. Maybe they have a good reason for it? For I doubt they are simply more charitable than the esteemed members of this forum?

 

[Menarue]

I have never criticized Camilla before and I am not even criticizing her now, I questioned whether she is ill. If she is not it was very very bad PR.
If she is ill perhaps it is being covered up and someone was asked to make excuses and these came out very badly.
I also think it useless to compare her with the Queen who seems to have wonderful health, but I remember how HM carried on as soon as she could after her knee operation and the Queen mother had serious health problems that were never heard of until after her death.
Then again I have had people in my family who haved died of old age over 90 years old and others that have died of old age at under 80.
Right at the beginning of their marriage it was said (hearsay from newspapers) that there was a little friction in the family about Camilla´s reluctance to carry out royal engagements. As Prince Charles´s confidant she was completely in the background and enjoyed this. Now as the future Queen she is expected to carry out these engagements and perhaps she finds this tiring (or perhaps boring) and finds excuses.
Unfortunately for her the BRF is being scrutinized in a way it never has before and in times where everyone has to tighten his belt, expenditure or let us say what is considered excessive expenditure, is increasingly being frowned upon.
In this particular case the idea of Camilla returning earlier (only a few days earlier which is surprising too) it is not her simply getting on a plane! She has her own security, ladies, probably a hairdresser, secretary etc. Will they all get on the plane and return. Prince Charles is going to have to fork out quite an amount on what seems to most of us (his own money or not) an unnecessary expense.
There lies another difference from the normal corporate business trip which may be with a group of colleagues or alone in a scheduled flight or a small charter plane..... in Camilla´s case she and the people accompanying her will need either a small charter plane or most of first class.
This said, I don´t believe that an executive of any corporation asked to go on a business trip to a hot climate will tell his superiors or employers that he finds it too hot and tiring, stays home and WILL NOT get passed by for the next promotion.
This won´t happen to Camilla, of course, but if she is not ill she will just have to suffer criticism from the British tax payers.

 

[Menarue]

For I doubt they are simply more charitable than the esteemed members of this forum?

What a condescending way to address people who are taking part in a debate!

 

[Elspeth]

I realise that this is a contentious and sensitive topic, but that's no excuse to resort to insults about other members or to indulge in bashing, speculation, or mean-spirited comparisons where the royals are concerned. We're going to have to start deleting posts if this level of unpleasantness keeps up.

Elspeth
British Royals moderator

 

[tommy1716]

Have we had any details of the programme yet? I wonder who they will be meeting on this trip?

 

[Menarue]

I don´t think this topic should be contentious. I sincerely hope that Camilla is not ill and that if it is bad PR this will be fixed.
I absolutely agree that tours can be gruelling but then again they come with the "job" that is the tragedy, someone marrying into the BRF is expected to not only be a wife and mother but to take on royal responsibilities. It not just a case of a woman marrying a man because she is in love with him, it entails much much more. I think this is another reason for anyone even contemplating this step should think very carefully to see if they are up to it.
Actually I haven´t seen the itinerary and I would like to, if anyone has it.

 

[ysbel]

This looks bad. I think she needs to attend every single function she possibly can.

A trip to Japan is high-profile and deserves her full presence. It may be a tougher trip but the high-profile trips need to take priority and a greater effort needs to be made than normal.

 

[Skydragon]

Prince Charles, heir to the British throne, will visit Japan for five days beginning Oct 27, the Japanese Foreign Ministry said Tuesday.

Prince Charles, Camilla to visit Japan Oct 27-31 › Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

That's as much as has been released, to date.

 

[Menarue]

Thanks Sky, I am especially looking forward to photographs of the Japanese visit and to see what she is going to wear, especially jewellery....
If the very generous Sultan of Brunei gives her some little memento I would like to see that too.....

 

[Madame Royale]

If a reference to the climate is not "health related", then I wonder what it is. In fact, have we seen her going on holiday to a region with a hot climate ever since her surgery? I know she was in Egypt, India, the Caribbean but that were official trips. Holidays, anyone? I only recall Scotland since which is rarely hot, though could be humid...

And if this isn't an official trip, then what is it?

You said yourself her official duties have seen her visit, Egypt, India and the Carribean, since undergoing her procedure. And as we all know, all three mentioned can be very warm or humid places..the Carribean was said to be especially humid during their time there. Was it necessarily comfortable for those who went? No, but that's to be expected when your agenda is to visit those countries. There's no surprise here.

I fail to see the relevance of Scotland, as we are not talking of private holidays.

 

[ysbel]

I just read that she's skipping the trip to Indonesia but not Japan. That's a little better but on the world stage, it might look that the Brits see Indonesia as 'less important' which is not exactly the sentiment you want to convey when staging an important visit.

Right now, I simply hope that she doesn't have serious health problems that BP doesn't want to disclose but I fear that may be the case.

 

[Madame Royale]

Right now, I simply hope that she doesn't have serious health problems that BP doesn't want to disclose but I fear that may be the case.

That would indeed be the last thing anyone (well anyone with a heart) would wan't. I sincerely hope that isn't that case, either. Id rather be a tad temporarily "miffed" with the reasons that were given, than learn that the Duchess is suffering from poor health.

 

[Skydragon]

I just read that she's skipping the trip to Indonesia but not Japan. That's a little better but on the world stage, it might look that the Brits see Indonesia as 'less important' which is not exactly the sentiment you want to convey when staging an important visit.

The reasons will have been given to the Indonesian authorities and so far, it would appear that they are perfectly happy with them. From what has been published about the trip, Camilla would just be a spectator anyway.

 

[Menarue]

Actually Ysbel that is what I have been thinking, they might have thought that the "too tiring" excuse was a good one to cover up another more serious one. All we can do is hope that this is not so as I think that many people have come to like Camilla.
I was already warming to her but when I saw her laughing with Prince Charles at the Highland Games(?) I really thought they made a wonderful couple.

 

[Nico]

Tss tss what a fuss foR nothing, as usual.....

-The DOC will not undertake the complete tour. So what?. It's the POW the britain representative. She's only the wife of this representative. Her presence is expected but not obligatory. (Carla "Jackie O" Sarkozy was not with her Little Big man for the last G8 summit in Japan. Who cares?)

-"If Diana was...blah blah blah". The never ending discussion, and of course a total nonsense. No comment.(Only one thing perhaps:during royal tours i prefere an always beaming Duchess (Caribean 2008) than a "Where's the camera OMG look at me i'm so sad" Princess (Korea 1992). Personnal taste of course.

-"She's lazy". Frankly for a 61 years old woman, royal for only 3 years, she's doing a very decent job and and the number of her engagements is far to be shameful. If i remember well the number of engagements of a 19 years old Princess of Wales 3 years after the wedding was not spectacular. (Of course if you compare with the Princess Royal, but she's hyperactive isn't she?).

-"The costs". Well next time TRH will stay at home. But of course at home they will be considered as lazy. Royals do royal things. Royal things are not cheap. It's not a discovery. (And republican things (the french ones for exemple) are often far more expensive).

-The "carbon footprint". Of course TRH would prefere to go to Japan on a Duchy original labeled raft. Find me a plane 100% eco-friendly? (I wonder how was the carbon footprint of Air Force one during the Mr Bush 's farewell europen tour some months agao).

 

[Jo of Palatine]

And if this isn't an official trip, then what is it?

You said yourself her official duties have seen her visit, Egypt, India and the Carribean, since undergoing her procedure. And as we all know, all three mentioned can be very warm or humid places..the Carribean was said to be especially humid during their time there. Was it necessarily comfortable for those who went? No, but that's to be expected when your agenda is to visit those countries. There's no surprise here.

I fail to see the relevance of Scotland, as we are not talking of private holidays.

Ah, Première Fille de France, I think you misunderstood me. My point was that although Camilla did undertake a couple of trips to a hotter climate-zone, she did not make any private trip as far as I know to a place with a hot and humid climate. She went to a cruise to Greece, but then the climate on the sea in Greece is quite healthy: dry, sunny and with enough wind coming in from the sea to cool you. Other than that, she holidayed "at home".

I always wondered if they decided on renting the "Leander" for the trip to Jamaica because Camilla had felt comfortable on this boat. It's not the luxuries such a yacht supplies to make you feel comfortable but the way the climatronic can be controlled, I found. Sometimes the smaller, less luxurious yacht is more comfortable because climatronic and the way the air reaches certain places on the boat and leaves other out of the wind are working perfectly together. That's why some people buy their yacht from specialized builders while others are only interested if the "Laura Ashley"-outfit of the cabins "are the real stuff".

And no, I have no information about Camilla's health, only the cues I take out of reading articles and a bit of experience with "female" medical issues.

 

[Madame Royale]

Ah, Première Fille de France, I think you misunderstood me. My point was that although Camilla did undertake a couple of trips to a hotter climate-zone, she did not make any private trip as far as I know to a place with a hot and humid climate. She went to a cruise to Greece, but then the climate on the sea in Greece is quite healthy: dry, sunny and with enough wind coming in from the sea to cool you. Other than that, she holidayed "at home".

Nein, meine liebe dame.

I understood you quite well, I assure you. Though the private vacationing interests of the Duchess were not what was being discussed as far as I was aware.

and a bit of experience with "female" medical issues

Funny that. Me too..

 

[Menarue]

We seem to get very patronising posts here. When I learned how to debate, good schools do have debating teams usually, we were taught to give a balanced argument and to be ready to argue exactly the opposite if asked. We were told never to get insulting but to think about things in a rational way and not to get emotionally involved.
I am not for Camilla or against her. The subject being debated is whether she was justified in giving a lame excuse for not accompanying her husband on a visit or not.
No one knows if she is ill or not, if she is then she has a legitimate reason for cutting short the journey. Whether the very lovely Carla Sarkhozy goes with her husband or not has absolutely nothing to do with this subject. We are not talking about private holidays at whatever clime, we are talking about an official visit that seemingly is going to be cut short because of the heat.
In my opinion it is just bad PR. If it is for health reasons I think that Camilla should say so and stay home.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

If it is for health reasons I think that Camilla should say so and stay home.

But with this sentence you say a lot of things: first you don't think that Camilla's inclusion in these trips have any kind of value. Otherwise you would be glad she could at least make part of the trip.

Plus you are of the opinion you have a right to be informed about anything. But why? Why is the "heat" not enough, why must they say anything more to the public? I guess it is undisputed that such an argument would not be enough to convince HM and the government - it surely is too "lame". So I am convinced that HM knows more about this and agreed on Camilla going only for part of the trip.

And Madame Royale, my argument about private holidays was to emphasize the fact that Camilla really has a problem with "heat" and does try to cope with it on her official trips as good as she can. If this "heat"- problem, whatever it is in reality, was just a "lame excuse", her enjoying these climates in her private time surely would count as a contra-argument. As she doesn't, this fact should work in her favour.

 

[grevinnan]

Why is there an assumption that she needs to be by Charles' sides during the entire trip? Is the focus the same for all countries they will visit? This is not an official state visit. Besides it is really irrelevants why she is going back home before P. Charles.

 

[Madame Royale]

And Madame Royale, my argument about private holidays was to emphasize the fact that Camilla really has a problem with "heat" and does try to cope with it on her official trips as good as she can. If this "heat"- problem, whatever it is in reality, was just a "lame excuse", her enjoying these climates in her private time surely would count as a contra-argument. As she doesn't, this fact should work in her favour.

If it were of private interest and recreation, then I'd not be phased. But it isn't and sometimes we must do things we don't necessarily wish to do for whatever reasons we may have. Completing an official visit being one of those 'things', I'd have thought.

Though, no one would (well I wouldn't) wish the Duchess to be in extreme discomfort if it were infact a medical condition (?) stopping her from continuing alongside her husband.

 

[Al_bina]

...[snipped]
-The "carbon footprint". Of course TRH would prefere to go to Japan on a Duchy original labeled raft. Find me a plane 100% eco-friendly? (I wonder how was the carbon footprint of Air Force one during the Mr Bush 's farewell europen tour some months agao).

I fail to see the relevance of mentioning President Bush in this thread. He is neither Mr.Gore nor Prince Charles, who are eco-fanatics obsessed with carbon footprints and other green stuff. Why to make unfavourable remarks for no good reason? Given the fact that Prince Charles is keen on eco-friendly/organic stuff and promotes it in every possible way, naturally people will question carbon-footprint related to his trips.

We seem to get very patronising posts here. When I learned how to debate, good schools do have debating teams usually, we were taught to give a balanced argument and to be ready to argue exactly the opposite if asked. We were told never to get insulting but to think about things in a rational way and not to get emotionally involved.
I am not for Camilla or against her. The subject being debated is whether she was justified in giving a lame excuse for not accompanying her husband on a visit or not.
... [snipped]

Your observations are very insightful.