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  #21  
Old 10-07-2008, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by milla Ca View Post
´If Diana had´...that´s the comparison i´m waiting for.......always again...
Ok, let's substitute ....

Like Charles, heir to the throne: Willem Alexander, Haakon. Felipe, Frederik

Like Camilla, the wife: Maxima, Mette-Merit, Letizia, Mary

Granted, none of the above women are Camilla's age, but Maxima, Letizia and Mary have all given birth in the last year or so --- all have young children, many responsibilities
If one of them had opted out of going to Indonesia with the excuses which Camilla is giving, don't you think that there would an uproar in their respective countries?
Camilla sure trots down to the Caribbean whenever she can and I don't think of that area of the world as being a cold climate.
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  #22  
Old 10-07-2008, 05:34 PM
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Camilla sure trots down to the Caribbean whenever she can and I don't think of that area of the world as being a cold climate.
Different type of heat and humidity, no having to 'dress up', no traveling here there and everywhere, just a nice restful time, with the opportunity to lay down when the H&H gets to you!
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  #23  
Old 10-07-2008, 05:57 PM
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Since Camilla must have known what sort of response this decision would elicit from the Daily Mail and others who think she's a basic waste of space, there must have been a reason for it. I doubt their handlers would have let her throw that part of the trip just because she didn't fancy going.
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  #24  
Old 10-07-2008, 07:31 PM
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BUT how do we know this is true? That she is leaving early because of the heat. The London Evening Standard was the same 'paper' that reported that Camilla vacationed with her ex only to later print a small retraction that it was all untrue. (this was after APB sued the paper). This article was picked up by many other news outlets and generated a lot of discussion. I think everyone needs to wait until the actual trip.Maybe a more important question -is this really a diplomatically important trip. Important enough to justify the cost at this time.
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  #25  
Old 10-07-2008, 07:51 PM
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I am older than Camillia and I hate heat, too, but if I have to be somewhere and it is hot, I go. Camilla does what she wants. That's seems to be good enough, so that is okay. Yes, if it were Diana, she would be "petulant, uncooperative, etc." She is a non-negotiable part of Charles' life, so she does what she wants.
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  #26  
Old 10-08-2008, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
It is unknown whether or not Duchess of Cornwall will get any special presents from Sultan of Brunei or Queen Saleha...I am not sure whether the British Royal family does the same though.
The Sultan of Brunei and the Prince of Wales are friends of long-standing and any gift of jewellery (if there is one) will be a personal gesture on behalf of the Sultan.
Queen Elizabeth generally offers signed and framed photographs as official (as opposed to personal) gifts.
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  #27  
Old 10-08-2008, 06:24 AM
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Duchess of Cornwall will cut short ‘arduous’ royal tour - Times Online

It's not very sensitive to give hot weather or a full diary as an excuse - if there is another health related background they should be honest about it -, especially not when there are inlaws who keep on showing an iron attitude despite being well in their 80ies.

Camilla should get her act together, this won't help her reputation at all. Yes, the climate is not nice and a 62 year might feel the strain but it is part of her job. What kind of message is she sending out in times like these where people are losing their jobs? C & C are being pampered during this trip as much as possible anyway - on other people's expenses - and then go and say, no sorry it's too hot, I'll cut it short?

If C & C want to survive as monarchs they will have to work on their attitude and media relations big time - currently they don't have the right strategy to convince people of their capabilities, I'd say.
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  #28  
Old 10-08-2008, 06:56 AM
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I have to admit, even though I like the Duchess very much, that I think this rather lax. It doesn't look good. Infact it looks rather negligent and precious, imo.

The courts excuses as to why, seem particularly flimsy much of the time...whether true or not they know any excuse can be given and nothing has to be proved, publically.

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especially not when there are inlaws who keep on showing an iron attitude despite being well in their 80ies.
So so true!
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  #29  
Old 10-08-2008, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I have to admit, even though I like the Duchess very much, that I think this rather lax. It doesn't look good. Infact it looks rather negligent and precious, imo.
Didn't prince Henrik of Denmark leave his queen alone on a recent trip to Asia and returned home prematurely because of his health? I recall that nobody called him workshy but people just showed compassion. Why is it that some publications are supported when claiming that she is lazy even though CH gives as explanation that the climate is too hard on her? Her surgery of last year is usually followed by hormone problems which can be controlled most of the time but can be heavy on a lady her age in a hot and humid climate. Plus problems with the cardiovascular system are observed in many cases after such a surgery which would also make travelling to such a climate more problematic as need be. Especially as the prince wants to address muslim topics and I doubt the men he is going to meet care much if presented with his lady wife or not.
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  #30  
Old 10-08-2008, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by milla Ca View Post
´If Diana had´...that´s the comparison i´m waiting for.......always again...
totaly agree, always the tradition comparison betwen the duchess and diana! i think there is no way to any comparison , diana was a yong women , camilla is 61 !
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  #31  
Old 10-08-2008, 08:03 AM
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Didn't prince Henrik of Denmark leave his queen alone on a recent trip to Asia and returned home prematurely because of his health? I recall that nobody called him workshy but people just showed compassion.
IMO there is a difference between falling ill during a visit (Henrik suffered from brochitis in South Korea and even had to go to hospital) and skipping a part of a visit in advance because of climate concerns.

For me this is just desastrous PA and even Camilla must have understood that people will judge her on the bar her future predecessor keeps on setting at the age of 87. Ill is ill but this message comes across as "oh, it doesn't sound convenient therefore I better cut it short" without even trying. There are aircons down in Indonesia and if she doesn't feel well enough to do a jungle trip - fine but no need to cancel this part of the trip completely.
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  #32  
Old 10-08-2008, 08:14 AM
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To me it seems you want Clarence House to post all of Camilla's medical reports so you and anyone else can judge them at your leisure. Why is it so difficult to accept that not all people are the same and that while some are healthier than others and work till their old adage others can't, not because they don't want to but simply because they can't? Do cripples have to prove to you the degree of their handicap when they ask you to stand up in a train when you occupy a place reserved for disabled persons? Or is it okay if they just say they don't feel well and could they please sit on the place reserved for them?

For me the explanation that Clarence House gave is enough: Camilla has a full diary and the climate is too hot for her. So she needs a period of time to relax before the next round of events. That's an honest declaration. What more could she do except release her medical records?

Really, your reaction is very narrow-minded and I wonder if you'd find it okay if any of your indispositions at work would be publically discussed in the staff cafeteria of your employer after someone had posted his explanation of the background of your indispositions at the black board at the entrance.
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  #33  
Old 10-08-2008, 08:56 AM
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[quote=Jo of Palatine;833935]
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Do cripples have to prove to you the degree of their handicap when they ask you to stand up in a train when you occupy a place reserved for disabled persons? Or is it okay if they just say they don't feel well and could they please sit on the place reserved for them?
This is quite an insulting interpretation of my post to be honest and has nothing to do with the message I intended to bring across.

Quote:
Really, your reaction is very narrow-minded and I wonder if you'd find it okay if any of your indispositions at work would be publically discussed in the staff cafeteria of your employer after someone had posted his explanation of the background of your indispositions at the black board at the entrance.
It's my opinion Jo and if you find it narrow-minded I can live with that. I think it's wrong though to compare Camilla's terms and conditions to those of any ordinary employee or member of the public. These trips are paid for by taxpayers' money and therefore it must be allowed to voice an opinion on Camilla's or CH's attitude, whether you like it or not.
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  #34  
Old 10-08-2008, 10:28 AM
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I believe this was very bad PR. It was an unfortunate excuse, surely they could have come up with something more palatable. She seems truly to have forgotten that her lifestyle, which is far from Spartan, is being paid for by the tax-payers and I am sure that no-one would make Camilla do anything too strenuous. If she is ill, then it is better to say so but to announce before hand that she doesn´t like the heat, is a bit much. I agree wholeheartedly with what Duke has said and that remark about cripples was uncalled for, these days they are called handicapped people BTW.
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  #35  
Old 10-08-2008, 11:33 AM
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She seems truly to have forgotten that her lifestyle, which is far from Spartan, is being paid for by the tax-payers
People, please start to realise that Camilla's lifestyle is not payed for by the taxpayer. It will be once she is queen consort but as long as she is the wife of The Prince of Wales her husband pays for her private life out of his private, tax-payer independant income and funds. If they travel on duty for Britain, then of course the taxpayer pays for these travels, but the thing is that as she does not travel to Indonesia, she is actually saving the taxpayer a lot of money while she makes her husband pay for the days she is not on public duty but privately recovering in London.

It is always so easy to shout: They are living off the taxpayer so have to work! And: How dare she be ill or not longer able to do all we think is fitting for a woman in the 60ties? She must be lazy, lazy, lazy.

Come on, would you dare tell that kind of things to your mother when she decides while spending a family holiday with you that this walk is too heavy for her so you better go alone with Dad while she takes a little nap? Would you really dare telling your mother that she is just plain lazy and has to come along in order to amuse whoever has invited her to come along?

But obviously it is quite okay to tell that to a woman who never took money from you for whatever ( I don't think you're a British taxpayer) and who is so obviously supporting her husband in all things important to him that she must have a good reason not to go where he goes and help him there.

I call that lack of breeding, while IMHO a cripple is just that: a handicapped person due to the possession of crippled limbs. Sorry, but this is an English word and can be used when simply describing that this person is bodily handicapped, not mentally. IMHO, at least, judging from the usage of "cripple" in German. And believe me, I personally know a lot about people crippled by war or accidents - my uncle used to be vice-president of the Bund deutscher Kriegsversehrter which originally cared for injured soldiers but today actively supports as a charity the victims of accidents at sports who in most cases have no sufficient insurance to help cover their rehabilitation costs. Most men from my family in my father's generation were actually permanently injured as soldiers in WWII so it was quite naturally for me to volunteer at the VDK just as my son today volonteers on caring for people as member of the Maltese order's help programme.
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  #36  
Old 10-08-2008, 11:44 AM
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Actually on this occasion the taxpayer is paying. Overseas tours are paid for by the Foreign Office, thats why CH has said that "The Government has requested...".
I think that Camilla is entitled to privacy and if she is ill then she has the right to keep that private but to be honest in looks so bad for her to not even try to finish the tour. Even if she'd gone and only done one engagment on the last leg that would be better than saying "I won't even bother trying."
Given that there is so much critisim of Camilla's percieved lack on public duties then this is very bad PR that could have been avoided. I really do wonder whether CH staff simply don't realise or whether the Prince and Duchess are just so insistent to get their own way beacause i do feel the many, many well paid staff advising them are not doing their job here.
I also wonder what message it sends out to the country she's not visiting that she's not making it?

For everyone who goes on about "her choice whether to attend or not" you are of course right, but if she can't or doesn't want to complete a tour, for what ever reason, then in my opinion she shoudn't go on any of it. I don't think she should be able to pick and choose that much.
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  #37  
Old 10-08-2008, 12:00 PM
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There are lots of words that some years back one could use without criticism. Nowadays in a politically correct world one has to chose one´s terms. It is only a word but it can offend. Of course someone who is using English as a foreign language cannot be blamed for not knowing some of these.
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  #38  
Old 10-08-2008, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Didn't prince Henrik of Denmark leave his queen alone on a recent trip to Asia and returned home prematurely because of his health? I recall that nobody called him workshy but people just showed compassion. Why is it that some publications are supported when claiming that she is lazy even though CH gives as explanation that the climate is too hard on her? Her surgery of last year is usually followed by hormone problems which can be controlled most of the time but can be heavy on a lady her age in a hot and humid climate. Plus problems with the cardiovascular system are observed in many cases after such a surgery which would also make travelling to such a climate more problematic as need be. Especially as the prince wants to address muslim topics and I doubt the men he is going to meet care much if presented with his lady wife or not.
I have no idea, he may have. And I know not why you refer to Henrik in this isntance as if I were expected to know what he does. Because I take an interest in his daughter in-law and her Crown Princely family doesn't necessarily mean I therefore follow her father in-law with the same enthusiasm...haha.

And the difference being, if that were the case, that at least Henrik actually made the trip before deciding upon an early departure. His reasons were medical (as you have suggested and as DofM has confirmed) and were made known as such, hence the 'compassion' you talk of, I'd imagine.

It's only been confirmed that Camilla can't be bothered with the southern heat and needs a rest before a Sunday service or two and her husbands birthday festivities...

It looks quite poorly, I'm affraid.
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  #39  
Old 10-08-2008, 12:08 PM
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For everyone who goes on about "her choice whether to attend or not" you are of course right, but if she can't or doesn't want to complete a tour, for what ever reason, then in my opinion she shoudn't go on any of it. I don't think she should be able to pick and choose that much.
You obviously have never been on any kind of "offcial tour" - it's definately no pleasure to have to fly to a foreign land, be carried around there and attend event after event, breakfast, lunches, dinners with dignitaries, always late on the time schedule with staff trying to make things work on scrapping your small leisure times pre-planned but never coming. Yes, castles and palaces and the suites of luxury hotels are nice if you stay there on holiday but on a business trip they are just places to clean yourself up, change clothes or at least renew your make-up if female and your dress handkerchief if you are a man. And off it's again, smiling and listening and appearing or even being interested (the memory of the last one helps on deciding if you accept another of "those invitations" ).

And every night you have heavy feet from standing too long or walking around admiring things you've seen before and your digestion doesn't work due to the stress of flying, travelling and the need to finish your plates at each meal in order to appear well-pleased with everything. In my case I read the programme of the proposed tour and think: yes, I want to do that. Then I read some more about the place where I would go and went there, only returning wishing that I could have seen more things and more on my own pace. And I have always travelled on trips which aimed at my professional interests and widened my professional horizont. So I feel quite lucky compared to HRH The Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall whose schedule is not determined by her personal interests but by the interests of the country she represents.

As an addition: in my field of work we say: three days travel, three days rest.
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  #40  
Old 10-08-2008, 12:19 PM
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And the difference being, if that were the case, that at least Henrik actually made the trip before deciding upon an early departure. His reasons were medical (as you have suggested and as DofM has confirmed) and were made known as such, hence the 'compassion' you talk of, I'd imagine.

It's only been confirmed that Camilla can't be bothered with the southern heat and needs a rest before a Sunday service or two and her husbands birthday festivities...
Of course it would look much better if she accepted the trip to Indonesia knowing she can't make it for medical reasons and then drop out because of an emergency while letting the British taxpayer foot the bill and her hosts be disappointed while her image remained ultra-white and people feel comapssion for her? Or she could have asked Charles to not accept such a long trip and both settled for a shorter one?

Why can't she just say, as CH did: sorry, this is too much for Camilla, so she travels home while her husband is travelling to Indonesia?

As for all those advisors, private and government ones: surely they were told that the duchess can't make it and they decided that it's better this way than any other? Why can't you simply accept that without blaming Camilla for not being perfect?
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