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  #81  
Old 11-18-2008, 01:43 PM
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I can't see the Archbishop of Canterbury refusing to annoint the next monarch ... there have been some truly reprehensible characters who were crowned without any protest from the clerics. I have to agree, this might open a whole new can of worms about the relationship between the Crown, the church and the people, that Dr. Williams might not wish to pursue.
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  #82  
Old 11-18-2008, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
(snip) About remarriage St. Paul says (in Corinthians) that remarriage should only occur when the divorcees have completely solved their inner connection to their former partner and then they should marry the person the adultery was committed with because it's better to be married to the person one has desired so much that one committed adultery (and thus broke the unity given by the Lord to the wedded couple) than stay alone. (snip)
Ooooh! How very interesting.
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  #83  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pamk View Post
Camilla will be known as the Queen. Period.
Charles as King would not allow his wife, Camilla, to curtsey to any other King or Queen which she would have to do as a mere Duchess or Princess.
She will be Queen.
We don't know at this point whether Camilla will be Queen. It will depend greatly on public opinion when the time comes.

If the public remains opposed at the same level it is now, Parliament will pass legislation stating she will not hold the rank and title of Queen Consort. At that point, she will merely be a princess of the UK in her own right for her lifetime (albeit with precedence and place next to The King as first lady of the land).

That's the way it goes.
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  #84  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by iowabelle View Post
I can't see the Archbishop of Canterbury refusing to annoint the next monarch ... there have been some truly reprehensible characters who were crowned without any protest from the clerics. I have to agree, this might open a whole new can of worms about the relationship between the Crown, the church and the people, that Dr. Williams might not wish to pursue.
Yes but back then :
1. The King held true power in the land
2. The subjects held true ignorance in the land
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  #85  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:33 PM
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Yes but back then the church held a lot more power too, so major decisions by the Archbishop of Canterbury would have carried a lot more weight. Nowadays if the Church tries to meddle in the succession, the Church will come off the loser.

Look, you might as well get used to it - if Charles is alive when the Queen dies, he'll become King, and if he's still alive when Coronation Day rolls around, he'll be crowned. Doesn't matter how hard you wish it was otherwise; it isn't going to happen otherwise. There's more at stake than people wanting to see Charles and Camilla humiliated on Diana's account.
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  #86  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:50 PM
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Could you please give me the reference to the Corinthian epistle that you mention, Jo? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
About remarriage St. Paul says (in Corinthians) that remarriage should only occur when the divorcees have completely solved their inner connection to their former partner and then they should marry the person the adultery was committed with because it's better to be married to the person one has desired so much that one committed adultery (and thus broke the unity given by the Lord to the wedded couple) than stay alone. It's not something that is recommended or encouraged but it's possible.
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  #87  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:51 PM
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Yes, I think that it depends very much on public opinion...whether that's "fair" or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
We don't know at this point whether Camilla will be Queen. It will depend greatly on public opinion when the time comes.

If the public remains opposed at the same level it is now, Parliament will pass legislation stating she will not hold the rank and title of Queen Consort. At that point, she will merely be a princess of the UK in her own right for her lifetime (albeit with precedence and place next to The King as first lady of the land).

That's the way it goes.
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  #88  
Old 11-18-2008, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
We don't know at this point whether Camilla will be Queen. It will depend greatly on public opinion when the time comes.

If the public remains opposed at the same level it is now, Parliament will pass legislation stating she will not hold the rank and title of Queen Consort. At that point, she will merely be a princess of the UK in her own right for her lifetime (albeit with precedence and place next to The King as first lady of the land).

That's the way it goes.

Parliament will actually have to pass legislation that strips her of her title of Queen, which is more serious as it introduces the idea of a morganatic marriage and the idea that certain women aren't worthy of taking their husband's title. Parliament will try to avoid any such problem.
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  #89  
Old 11-19-2008, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Parliament will actually have to pass legislation that strips her of her title of Queen, which is more serious as it introduces the idea of a morganatic marriage and the idea that certain women aren't worthy of taking their husband's title. Parliament will try to avoid any such problem.
The morganatic precedent was established in 1937 when The Duke of Windsor married Wallis Simpson. She was denied via letters patent what was rightfully hers by common law as the wife of a son of the Sovereign.

It could happen again.
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  #90  
Old 11-19-2008, 02:45 AM
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Whether people want it or not, and I am fairly sure they will want it, the person who matters is Charles when he is King. He will make Camilla Queen and quite rightly so.
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  #91  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Could you please give me the reference to the Corinthian epistle that you mention, Jo? Thanks.
It is quite complicated and I have it only in German, but I found a book about a scientific colloquium which has a paper that deals with the quotes from the Corinthians and the different interpretations theologists have given to them, so one can form their own opinion about what is actually said, how the Greek original text is to be translated and interpretated according to the time and situation it was written in:

The Corinthian Correspondence: [papers of the Forty-third Session of the Colloquium Biblicum Lovaniense (August 8-10, 1994)]
Von E. Peters, Reimund Bieringer
Mitwirkende Personen Reimund Bieringer
Veröffentlicht von Peeters Publishers, 1996
ISBN 9068317741, 9789068317749
791 Seiten

In the book it's this paper:F. Neirynck (Leuven): The Sayings of Jesus in 1 Corinthians.

You can get a lot information if you google bible, divorce and remarriage but as this paper points out, most of what you find is interpretation, so one need to learn more about the background of St. Paul's letters and about the meaning of certain words of greek language of his time when it comes to social positions and thus the paper is surely very helpful.
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  #92  
Old 11-19-2008, 03:51 PM
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Okay, thanks. I have a theological library at home here, but my job would be easier if I knew the actual texts that are quoted. I can use a concordance to find them, though. Thanks again.
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  #93  
Old 11-19-2008, 03:54 PM
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Ah, but the King of the UK can't override the wishes of the majority of the people. If people are really opposed to a Queen Camilla in 10 years time--which I doubt--Charles might find some the Prime Minister knocking on his door with urgent business.

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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
Whether people want it or not, and I am fairly sure they will want it, the person who matters is Charles when he is King. He will make Camilla Queen and quite rightly so.
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  #94  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:45 PM
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And you know this how? Have you perhaps met her and discussed the role with her, is there a book we can read to judge her by?
Here we go again. What book or author do you accept as being truthful and accurate Skydragon? Because you make a career on this board of arguing every quote from every book that is anything other than a glowing review of Charles and Camilla. Once again you are back to 'nothing other than a statement from Charles or Camilla is definative'...because they dont have an axe to grind, right....
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  #95  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Ah, but the King of the UK can't override the wishes of the majority of the people. If people are really opposed to a Queen Camilla in 10 years time--which I doubt--Charles might find some the Prime Minister knocking on his door with urgent business.
Exactly. There is no doubt Charles will have no choice in the matter. If the public is opposed, the Prime Minister will advise the Crown, which is compelled to accept it.

Since Camilla has already made it clear she wishes to be HRH The Princess Consort, rather than Queen, it would seem Charles will once again have to learn to get in touch with reality.
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  #96  
Old 11-19-2008, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Exactly. There is no doubt Charles will have no choice in the matter. If the public is opposed, the Prime Minister will advise the Crown, which is compelled to accept it.
I don't think they would be so greatly opposed for the government to be concerned about it without a pretty big scandal moving that opinion. The most opposition I can see right now is around 60% of people somewhat mildly being opposed, most of whom will stop caring by the time the sun sets.
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  #97  
Old 11-20-2008, 03:07 AM
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I don't think they would be so greatly opposed for the government to be concerned about it without a pretty big scandal moving that opinion. The most opposition I can see right now is around 60% of people somewhat mildly being opposed, most of whom will stop caring by the time the sun sets.
Which would be (is ?) quite the percentage of people, whether mildly opposed or otherwise. That's not something that could be blindly overlooked in any way, shape or form. 10 years from now, who knows how people will react to the likeliness of a Queen Camilla, but let us not dismiss, though none of us know for certain (only what is intended) what infact HRH wants and it could very well be that Camilla wishes to be known as HRH the Princess Consort.

I don't claim to know what will happen when their time comes, or the mood that'll ensue, but if Charles were to succeed tomorrow (of course that won't be happening), then Princess Consort I believe she'd be.
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  #98  
Old 11-20-2008, 04:11 AM
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Here we go again. What book or author do you accept as being truthful and accurate Skydragon? Because you make a career on this board of arguing every quote from every book that is anything other than a glowing review of Charles and Camilla. Once again you are back to 'nothing other than a statement from Charles or Camilla is definative'...because they dont have an axe to grind, right....
But Scooter, even you know that there are a lot of unreliable books around and that one should be careful with wordings that need a direct counterstatement from the person featured if it is untrue - especially when the person featured is known not to do that. Sentences like: "Charles knew in his heart that..." or the content of a dialogue where only two people were present and none of them ever talked about it. It is so easy to mix fact with fiction, especially when it comes to biographies and the fact that it is printed does not mean that it's true.

As I guess most people here are more interested in the facts than the fiction I at least second Skydragon's questioning of sources and quotes.
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  #99  
Old 11-20-2008, 04:39 AM
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I "third" her questioning.
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  #100  
Old 11-20-2008, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skydragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by princessistanbul
She's not fit for "Queen" title
And you know this how? Have you perhaps met her and discussed the role with her, is there a book we can read to judge her by?
Four pages on and still the question remains! Why?
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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Here we go again. What book or author do you accept as being truthful and accurate? . . . . . Once again you are back to 'nothing other than a statement from Charles or Camilla is definative'...because they dont have an axe to grind, right....
Truthful: veracious, lifelike, natural, true, aboveboard, accurate, candid, factual, frank, honest, ingenuous, open

Accurate: correct, exact, faithful, precise, right, rigorous, true, veracious, authentic, authoritative, authorized, certain

Definitive: authoritative, conclusive, decisive, final, absolute, complete, explicit, specific, actual, categorical, clear-cut, definite

or, to put it bluntly;

Factual: correct, genuine, literal, objective, real, true, absolute, actual, certain

Any further questions?
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