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  #221  
Old 04-23-2008, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by serenissima View Post
Oh, I see. Maybe, Austrian people are not that bothered about these titles as much as the aristocratic German people are. However, some of the members of the Habsburg family have a lot to do with Bavaria and don't they live there now ? Surely they must have some titles that are to do with Bavaria or its surrounding areas. Are they Germans by nationality or what are they now ?
I don't think you can say that about the people of a country when we are dealing with political reasons of the treatment of the nobility after WWI. I have no doubt that the Austrians know exactly who this widowed lady with the name Esterhazy is who lives at Schloss Esterhazy in Eisenstadt/Austria....And of course the people working for this lady call her "Fuerstin" (princess) when they meet her, even though she is plain Mrs. Esterhazy according to Austrian law.

As for the Habsburg-Lothringen: maybe you just want to check out the threads relating to this family and the other German-Austrian families on the Non-reigning families-forums here. Lots of really interesting information and quite informative links provided there.
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  #222  
Old 04-23-2008, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
The Hong Kong born lady is HE Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg.
Oh, I see. Well, this alternative title for herself was talked about here before they got married then. Then, we were told that she was going to style herself as the Duchess of Cornwall than the Princess of Wales because of those reasons that we know.

Obviously, as you can see, I am not at all that comfortable with this Camilla becoming HM the Queen in due course and will feel somehow right if they did stick to the first idea of the Princess Consort thing or call her something like the Duchess of Highgrove or the Princess of London or whatever. Or maybe, the Duchess of Tasmania, how about that ?

It may be just fun for those people who are not British or the peoples of the Commomwealth to chat about this matter but we have to stick to it once she became our queen and I do find it really uncomfortable to think that she is my queen, if you know what I mean.
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  #223  
Old 04-23-2008, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by serenissima View Post
Having said that, since now we know what he was doing behind the scene writing to the certain MPs and what-not in order to pursue his own interests/cause etc, one becomes very suspicious of him. Even some old people whom I visit in those homes who were very fond of the Prince "Charles" (as they call him) before now feel as though they are let down by him.

It is good that people receive those letters from the prince et al but when they attend those numerous functions and events etc, they always write back to the organisers et al and admire their hard work etc. Even some people get OBE and things like that. I know few people who are decorated in this way but some of them are not that hard working according their members that they call such OBEs as "Other Buggers' Effort".
You should really try to make a difference between things that the government does (or does not) and what the prince does (or does not).. What Charles is doing at the moment is trying to influence politicians in order to help causes he sees as necessary for the country. He can't do it openly because it's a constitutional monarchy in Britain and it's the politicians who decide, the men and women given their office by the people of Britain through their votes. Charles has nothing to decide and once he is king, he can't even write open letters to politicians, he can only "advise" the prime minister then. So what can he do? He is chained by the law but still tries to make a difference.

Ah, and the people receiving honours are not selected by the Royal family, but by the politicians and the government. So put the blame for those OBE's to them.

But maybe we should switch that discussion to the Charles & Camilla-opinion-thread? Mods? Thank you in advance.
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  #224  
Old 04-23-2008, 06:39 AM
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Oh, I see. You know a lot of this sort of thing. However, there are no "commoners" in Germany, are there ? My friends in Germany always say that they are German nationals but I am a Queen's subject.
That's why I highlighted the "commoner" - Germany of todays makes no difference but I bet the Preussen-family does. And I don't think the senior family members like it that one daughter went against tradition and took advantage of the German laws to keep the prestigious "Prinzessin von Preussen"-name for her daughters, even though she had married a plain Mr.
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  #225  
Old 04-23-2008, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by serenissima View Post

Obviously, as you can see, I am not at all that comfortable with this Camilla becoming HM the Queen in due course and will feel somehow right if they did stick to the first idea of the Princess Consort thing or call her something like the Duchess of Highgrove or the Princess of London or whatever. Or maybe, the Duchess of Tasmania, how about that ?

It may be just fun for those people who are not British or the peoples of the Commomwealth to chat about this matter but we have to stick to it once she became our queen and I do find it really uncomfortable to think that she is my queen, if you know what I mean.
Duchess of Tasmania?.lol. You really don't warm to her do you. I don't know a single person who would happily assume that title...

I think she's most probably a fine lady with a kind nature and great sense of humour, though HRH just doesn't embody the image of Majesty for me.
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  #226  
Old 04-23-2008, 07:44 AM
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I think she's most probably a fine lady with a kind nature and great sense of humour, though HRH just doesn't embody the image of Majesty for me.
But if she did, wouldn't people assume she appeared to be "above her station" or even tried to outrank the queen? I think in due course we will see that king Charles (George VII.) and queen Camilla will be just a picture perfect Royal couple as George VI. and queen Elizabeth were.
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  #227  
Old 04-23-2008, 08:30 AM
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I'm sure a lot of people didn't imagine Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon as Her Majesty, either. She was born a commoner, was a little plump, somewhat dowdy, and coming behind Queens Mary and Alexandra she didn't have their regal and majestic style--I believe she was desribed once as as a sweet, chattering little thing. However, she was quite beloved. I realize the circumstances are different here for multiple reasons, but getting back to creating Camilla a Princess in her own right--that could be interesting--but like some think that HM doesn't suit her, I don't think that Princess suits her very well either.
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  #228  
Old 04-23-2008, 08:47 AM
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I have removed a post relating to Empress Zita. Now that we are back on track discussing Camilla's title could we please try to keep further discussion of German, Austrian, Slovak etc titles out of the thread please.

thanks
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  #229  
Old 04-23-2008, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
But if she did, wouldn't people assume she appeared to be "above her station" or even tried to outrank the queen? I think in due course we will see that king Charles (George VII.) and queen Camilla will be just a picture perfect Royal couple as George VI. and queen Elizabeth were.
No no, I think we're lost in translation.

What I meant was that I don't think Camilla will embody the image of Majesty, after her husbands succession. I just don't see a 'Queen' in her. And I say that with not the slightest bit malice intended because it really is nothing negative about her, which has established my opinion.

She will make a great consort, but it remains my great hope that she be the Princess Consort...
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  #230  
Old 04-23-2008, 11:21 AM
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I still find the idea of Princess Consort is hard to accept. As long as Camilla remains as Prince Charles's lawful wife, no doubt Camilla has every right to be called Queen Camilla under any circumstances. I am not against the idea of creating Camilla into a Princess herself but definitely not Princess consort. This word causes my feeling of unequal marriage as well as unrecognised position of the second wife.
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  #231  
Old 04-23-2008, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
But if she did, wouldn't people assume she appeared to be "above her station" or even tried to outrank the queen? I think in due course we will see that king Charles (George VII.) and queen Camilla will be just a picture perfect Royal couple as George VI. and queen Elizabeth were.
Of course they would and people would be on here asking 'how dare she'. To me, she acts exactly how I would wish the female members to act, with discretion and silence with regard to the press.
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  #232  
Old 04-23-2008, 05:12 PM
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I am sure, as I have been told so by some people who have met her, Camilla is a nice enough lady but not that great either. However, people who do want this sport called fox hunting to continue find her and her husband their Salvatori Mundi, and she is already HM the Queen to them, I am sure.

How about "Foxy Lady" for her as her new title ?
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  #233  
Old 04-23-2008, 05:31 PM
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How about "Foxy Lady" for her as her new title ?
No.

I guess we all will find out which title she will use in time.
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  #234  
Old 04-23-2008, 06:41 PM
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It has occurred to me that maybe Camilla really doesn't want to be Queen, and would prefer to be Princess Consort. She may see herself having more freedom with the lesser title and it might be her idea.

Just a thought.
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  #235  
Old 04-23-2008, 06:46 PM
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And you're probably right Roslyn. I always thought Charles was more the one trying to impose Camilla as future Queen. Camilla never liked the limelight, IMO. She's very discreet and simple. I honestly can't see her claiming her title of Queen.
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  #236  
Old 04-23-2008, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
It has occurred to me that maybe Camilla really doesn't want to be Queen, and would prefer to be Princess Consort. She may see herself having more freedom with the lesser title and it might be her idea.

Just a thought.
Well, that was what we were told before they got married. Mrs Parker-Bowles didn't really want to get married but was very happy to carry on things as they had been etc but since it was the Prince of Wales with whom she was in love and the Queen apparently wanted the prince to formalise their relationship etc that they got married though Camilla was very reluctant etc. Then, Camilla herself said something like that she was not wanting to become HM the Queen upon the prince's assenssion to the throne and if possible wanted to hold a lesser style such as a princess or whatever. Then some people were saying that they would associate a "princess" with a younger woman etc that I was saying but the Princess Alice was very old but we wouldn't find that strange etc.

So, I, too, think that Camilla would rather stay as a princess (or even as Camilla Parker-Bowles and seeing to her gardens and horses etc) but her husband has to have everything in his way and wants her to become HM the Queen when he becomes the king etc, so I understand.
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  #237  
Old 04-23-2008, 07:09 PM
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And you're probably right Roslyn. I always thought Charles was more the one to trying to impose Camilla as future Queen. Camilla never liked the limelight, IMO. She's very discreet and simple. I honestly can't see her claiming her title of Queen.
I actually agree with this notion myself. I do not believe Camilla really wants to be Queen nor was she particularly interested in marrying Charles and becoming The Princess of Wales. She is very independent and marrying a future king is not exactly a life of leisure.

The title issue will be settled one way or another when the time comes. While I think Parliament will very reluctant to change the precedent, it certainly is possible to do so and allow her to hold the lesser style and rank of Princess Consort.
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  #238  
Old 04-23-2008, 07:34 PM
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It has occurred to me that maybe Camilla really doesn't want to be Queen, and would prefer to be Princess Consort. She may see herself having more freedom with the lesser title and it might be her idea.
She is the CP wife. How can she possibly think the we, the public, would expect less of her after Charles is crowned? Whatever else she is, she is not stupid!

Given that most of us see the BRF as the diplomatic arm of government, do we really want to reduce the public and international worth of the BRF with muddled precedences and the situation of a Princess Consort being well down the pecking order of her eurpean counterparts when they are crowned and she is not?

The UK would be the laughingstock of Europe! Every trashy (and not a few mainstream) paper would be willing to pay big money for every photo of 'Princess Consort Camilla" curtseying to Queen's Maxima, Letizia, Mary. etc!

All this talk of Camilla being less than Queen Consort looks very like cutting off one's nose to spite ones face!
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  #239  
Old 04-23-2008, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
You should really try to make a difference between things that the government does (or does not) and what the prince does (or does not).. What Charles is doing at the moment is trying to influence politicians in order to help causes he sees as necessary for the country. He can't do it openly because it's a constitutional monarchy in Britain and it's the politicians who decide, the men and women given their office by the people of Britain through their votes. Charles has nothing to decide and once he is king, he can't even write open letters to politicians, he can only "advise" the prime minister then. So what can he do? He is chained by the law but still tries to make a difference.

Ah, and the people receiving honours are not selected by the Royal family, but by the politicians and the government. So put the blame for those OBE's to them.

But maybe we should switch that discussion to the Charles & Camilla-opinion-thread? Mods? Thank you in advance.
Oh, having taken your kind suggestion, I put my opinion in another thread. Well, I know that the MBEs and OBEs are not selected by the Crown but are nominated by each organisation to the regional lord lieutenant and s/he would present the names of such persons to the government and then passed onto the Crown. I know people who were invested with these honours and one of my own relative was OBE, too, (he died last year - his funeral was well attended) that I know how things are done re: these telephone calls etc coming from the Buckingham Palace etc.

Now I cannot even remember why I started talking about the MBEs and what-not. Oh, I think it was because you were saying that the Prince of Wales kindly would write to those people etc and I was trying to say that all the royal persons would do after they visited places as a matter of formality. I have read few letters from such persons who attended some of the charities in which I am involved etc and they do make sure that we understand that they admire our hard work etc etc. So, it's not that the Prince of Wales is the only person who sends such letters of thanks to people but they all do and some of those who organised such events get OBEs and what not when they themselves had not done very much. Please do not get me wrong, some of those people are very hard working people and a few of people whom I know got their honours for their greater works to our country.

Anyway, going back to Camilla and her title, I don't think that she is really bothered. More likely, she wouldn't like to have one but would be quite happy with her former style of plain Mrs Camilla Parker-Bowles as she said before her marriage to the Prince of Wales.
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  #240  
Old 04-23-2008, 08:44 PM
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The UK would be the laughingstock of Europe!
I highly doubt that.

Quote:

Princess Consort being well down the pecking order of her eurpean counterparts.

Every trashy (and not a few mainstream) paper would be willing to pay big money for every photo of 'Princess Consort Camilla" curtseying to Queen's Maxima, Letizia, Mary. etc!
That's incorrect.

Camilla will never, at any stage, be required to curtsy to any of her continental counterparts. She may not be styled or titled as Queen but she shall continue to hold a precedence that would otherwise be reserved for the wife of the King.
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