The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #461  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:47 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
If in the event they do not, then there's really nothing standing in the way of creating her Princess Consort. I would be certain the appropriate executive papers would be drawn up, and passed, quite quickly.
It would require an Act of Exclusion being passed by Parliament stating the wife of Charles III is denied the rank of Queen Consort instead holding whatever titles of honour and rank granted by The King as fount of honour.

The Crown Commonwealth nations would also have to consent to the change through each Governor-General as advised by their Prime Ministers.

So, it won't be so simple or easy.
__________________

__________________
  #462  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:48 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
A committee? Good heavens!! The Mob, Sam, get it right...

You receive what is extended, though this does not mean what is given cannot be altered. They know this. It is not an autocratic institution, but a constitutional democratic monarchy.
__________________

__________________

"Dressing is a way of life" - Monsieur Saint Laurent
  #463  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:52 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
Camilla will be Queen Camilla. Charles will never settle for anything less. The public will only have any say in the issue if the public outcry and opinions are so strong that the future of the monarchy is in jeopardy.
When the current Queen dies and Charles ascends the throne the country will be in deep mourning and whatever he wants he will get.
I'm not sure about that. If the outcry is that loud, Parliament may force him to abdicate in favor of William instead. There is no way any future Prime Minister is going to allow overwhelming public opinion to diminish the standing of the monarchy over the status of his wife.

There are definitely reservations about Charles and Camilla that will surface once The Queen passes on. That's why she is trying her best to showcase Camilla and Charles as time goes on in their future role, hoping the public will get used to the idea.

But it may or may not happen.
__________________
  #464  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:55 PM
wbenson's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
It would require an Act of Exclusion being passed by Parliament stating the wife of Charles III is denied the rank of Queen Consort instead holding whatever titles of honour and rank granted by The King as fount of honour.
Which would only be if they choose to go the legal route and not a simple "brute force" route. I really doubt that there would be that many people, especially in officialdom, who would refuse to call her "HRH the Princess Consort" if the Palace simply instructed people to call her that. It would be a bigger stretch than anything that's been done before (Princess Alice, Lady Louise, etc.), but I think they could pull it off and simply stick their heads in the sand. I don't want them to, but I think they could.
__________________
  #465  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:58 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
It would require an Act of Exclusion being passed by Parliament stating the wife of Charles III is denied the rank of Queen Consort instead holding whatever titles of honour and rank granted by The King as fount of honour.

The Crown Commonwealth nations would also have to consent to the change through each Governor-General as advised by their Prime Ministers.

So, it won't be so simple or easy.
Of this I'm aware, though I think some prefer to make it seem more arduous than what it really is, or shall I say, what it could be.

I don't see why any Governor General would veto such a move, let alone any Prime Minister. Having had Clarence House publically acknowledge that it is the intention of both the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall, that Camilla would assume the title of Princess Consort, then why would there be any need to go against the intention of the King and his spouse? Quite simply, there is none.
__________________

"Dressing is a way of life" - Monsieur Saint Laurent
  #466  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:59 PM
BeatrixFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,843
Well lets be honest here - it could be done but it wont be done. Why? Because no one cares enough. No one can afford to care enough. Hence why it's a non issue and hence why all these polls and debates about it are a waste of time.
__________________
  #467  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:00 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
Which would only be if they choose to go the legal route and not a simple "brute force" route. I really doubt that there would be that many people, especially in officialdom, who would refuse to call her "HRH the Princess Consort" if the Palace simply instructed people to call her that. It would be a bigger stretch than anything that's been done before (Princess Alice, Lady Louise, etc.), but I think they could pull it off and simply stick their heads in the sand. I don't want them to, but I think they could.
I don't think they will get away with it by the means you describe. The legal issues are very clear that the wife of The King must be Queen Consort and nothing else. All of the constitutional precedents were thoroughly examined in 1936 and there is no other conclusion that can be made.

The only difference will be whether or not Parliament is prepared to act with legislation denying her rightful rank in law. This is doubtful in my opinion and creates more problems than it would solve.

Either she is accepted as Queen Consort or Charles must abdicate.
__________________
  #468  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:02 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Well lets be honest here - it could be done but it wont be done. Why? Because no one cares enough. No one can afford to care enough. Hence why it's a non issue and hence why all these polls and debates about it are a waste of time.
That's what everyone is hoping and it should be a non-issue when the time comes. But we'll have to wait and see.
__________________
  #469  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:03 PM
BeatrixFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,843
I think you're all missing the point here though - the British people won't march on Buckingham Palace and demand the head of Charles 'cos Camilla's Queen. We don't do that, we never have - the only reason Wallis Simpson wasn't Queen was because the big wigs didn't want her to be. It was the PM and the Archbishop who brought down Edward VIII, not the people and the people won't bother when Charles becomes King. They'll automatically be King and Queen and we'll all just get on with it. Thats what we do. There's no ultimatum, there's no fuss, there's no referendum or act of parliament - it'll just happen and we'll just get on with it.
__________________
  #470  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:04 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Either she is accepted as Queen Consort or Charles must abdicate.
I'm sorry, but that's a severe exaggeration. By that ideology, he may as well have signed a forthcoming act of abdication the same day he signed his marriage register.

It was never going to be any easy slog.
__________________

"Dressing is a way of life" - Monsieur Saint Laurent
  #471  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:05 PM
wbenson's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
I don't think they will get away with it by the means you describe. The legal issues are very clear that the wife of The King must be Queen Consort and nothing else. All of the constitutional precedents were thoroughly examined in 1936 and there is no other conclusion that can be made.
If they released a statement to the effect of "though Camilla legally remains Queen, she wishes to request that she be unofficially styled Her Royal Highness the Princess Consort for the time being," I really don't think anyone would begrudge her that. Yes, some people would refuse to call her anything else, and maybe Tuvalu or Papua New Guinea would call her Queen Camilla in everything they do, but I can't imagine the government (or most of the people) being so caught up in it that they do anything but say "whatever, it doesn't really bother us."
__________________
  #472  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:07 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
I think you're all missing the point here though - the British people won't march on Buckingham Palace and demand the head of Charles 'cos Camilla's Queen. We don't do that, we never have - the only reason Wallis Simpson wasn't Queen was because the big wigs didn't want her to be. It was the PM and the Archbishop who brought down Edward VIII, not the people and the people won't bother when Charles becomes King. They'll automatically be King and Queen and we'll all just get on with it. Thats what we do. There's no ultimatum, there's no fuss, there's no referendum or act of parliament - it'll just happen and we'll just get on with it.
Which is what should happen. They're already married and she shares his rank and titles. There is no logical reason why she should not be Queen when the time comes.
__________________
  #473  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:10 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
If they released a statement to the effect of "though Camilla legally remains Queen, she wishes to request that she be unofficially styled Her Royal Highness the Princess Consort for the time being," I really don't think anyone would begrudge her that. Yes, some people would refuse to call her anything else, and maybe Tuvalu or Papua New Guinea would call her Queen Camilla in everything they do, but I can't imagine the government (or most of the people) being so caught up in it that they do anything but say "whatever, it doesn't really bother us."
She can't be Queen and a Princess Consort at the same time. She is Her Majesty The Queen, not Her Royal Highness Princess Camilla, once her husband becomes King.

That's the difference.
__________________
  #474  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:14 PM
wbenson's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
She can't be Queen and a Princess Consort at the same time. She is Her Majesty The Queen, not Her Royal Highness Princess Camilla, once her husband becomes King.
"Can't be" is very, very different from "Can't be called." A simple statement of "Call her this thing we've made up, not this thing the law says she is" would most likely suffice in getting most people to call her whatever they want. It wouldn't be her legal title, in fact it wouldn't really exist at all. That doesn't matter in the long run, though. I hope they won't do that, as I really do want to see a Queen Camilla, but I also accept that, if pressed, they'll do what they want anyways.
__________________
  #475  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:47 PM
jcbcode99's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richmond Area, United States
Posts: 1,980
The notion that Charles is going to be forced to abdicate over Camilla's title is really a little extreme and over the top; it is also unlikely. The facts are these--when Charles ascends the throne Camilla will automatically become Queen Camilla. No special laws are going to be passed to make her the Princess Consort--why on earth should they be passed? She is the spouse of the monarch, not a second class citizen. All this talk of what she will be titled is well, disrepectful of what her rightful position is. This is utterly and without question ridiculous; the idea that Parliament would pass a law stating that Camilla is the Princess Consort because so many people still revere the memory of a dead woman who sought to bring down a monarchy-well, it is unethical that people would even consider such a thing. The laws of succession are how they are for a reason. The spouse is the Queen. Enough is enough.
__________________
Janet

"We make a living by what we do; we make a life by what we give" Winston Churchill
  #476  
Old 01-29-2008, 09:00 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
No special laws are going to be passed to make her the Princess Consort
You, or anyone here (myself included), cannot categorically state this, jcbcode99.....though I do admire you'e steadfast conviction..hehe..
__________________

"Dressing is a way of life" - Monsieur Saint Laurent
  #477  
Old 01-29-2008, 09:03 PM
sirhon11234's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 2,464
Quote:
a dead woman who sought to bring down a monarchy-well
That is not true or fair to say jcbcode99.
__________________
"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
Diana, the Princess of Wales
  #478  
Old 01-29-2008, 09:08 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
Oh Diana didn't want to bring down the Monarchy..good heavens no! A son's inheritance, afterall. She just wanted to give it what for (rightly or wrongly).
__________________

"Dressing is a way of life" - Monsieur Saint Laurent
  #479  
Old 01-29-2008, 09:37 PM
jcbcode99's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richmond Area, United States
Posts: 1,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
You, or anyone here (myself included), cannot categorically state this, jcbcode99.....though I do admire you'e steadfast conviction..hehe..
Madame Royale! Where have you been? I do agree--no one can really state what is going to happen one way or the other, but I thought (and of course, I may be wrong) that Camilla would automatically be Queen unless a law was passed that would prohibit her from that title and instead give her the lower title of HRH The Princess Consort. Unless that law is passed, she is automatically the Queen--right? So, let's look at this scenario, just for a moment. THe Queen passes away one night. Because one cannot really schedule death in the daybook, we don't know when this will be. However, the Queen dies; in that instant, Charles becomes King. This means that Camilla is AUTOMATICALLY Queen in the same instant. Will Parliament then pass this law and give her a lower title after the fact? Most likely not. That's where I'm going with this. This law would have to be passed before HM passes--and would she approve such a law? I don't know, but I don't think she would. Sbe is too steeped in the tradition of her family, and I don't see her no-nonsense personality approving of something so complicated. Besides, it sets a precedent that many may not want set--if we're looking down the road.
__________________
Janet

"We make a living by what we do; we make a life by what we give" Winston Churchill
  #480  
Old 01-29-2008, 09:45 PM
jcbcode99's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richmond Area, United States
Posts: 1,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhon11234 View Post
That is not true or fair to say jcbcode99.
Perhaps it was harsh, Sirhon but I think is is accurate. The only reason that this business of Princess Consort is being discussed is because Diana was married to Charles and she complained to the world about him and was able to garner lots of sympathy for herself. Camilla has already given up her rightful style of Princess of Wales, (althought she is in fact Camilla, The Princess of Wales) why should she have to give up HM The Queen? Diana would have never been Queen--she wanted a divorce, she got one. Unfortunantly, she died in a horrible car accident--but her dying that way made everyone feel this need to canonize her and treat her memory like a delicate piece of blown glass--and she doesn't really deserve all of that; she does deserve respect, but denying Camilla something that is legally and rightfully hers is going to an extreme that I just do not think is right. I respect tradition and I believe that whoever is married to the King should become the Queen.
__________________

__________________
Janet

"We make a living by what we do; we make a life by what we give" Winston Churchill
Closed Thread

Tags
camilla, duchess of cornwall, princess consort, queen consort, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Princess Madeleine, Current Events Part 3: August 2004 - June 2005 Josefine Current Events Archive 279 06-26-2005 08:56 PM
Royal Family of Belgium Part 2 Alexandria Current Events Archive 190 03-30-2005 12:56 PM
Prince Felipe and Princess Letizia, Current Events Part 3: October - December 2004 Alexandria Current Events Archive 274 12-04-2004 09:11 AM
King Carl XVI Gustaf and Queen Silvia, Current Events Part 1: November 2002-June 2004 Josefine Current Events Archive 300 06-12-2004 08:13 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit duchess of cambridge dutch royal history engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king constantine ii king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman picture of the month poland pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess marilene princess mary queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:53 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]