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  #321  
Old 05-28-2007, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
When Charles and Diana got married, Buckingham Palace put out these press releases on how Diana was to be styled and it was Diana, Princess of Wales.
I don't think this is accurate. Diana was "HRH The Princess of Wales" during her marriage. After the divorce she was styled "Diana, Princess of Wales," which is the typical style for a divorced or dowager peeress. Similarly, Sarah was "HRH The Duchess of York" during her marriage and "Sarah, Duchess of York" afterwards.
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  #322  
Old 05-28-2007, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
It would have been insensitive for a second wife who was not the mother of the heirs to be styled as Princess of Wales, even though Camilla has the right to do so.

But the issue of her title and style when Charles becomes King is another matter altogether. She is his lawful wife and entitled to be Queen when the time comes. Even if Diana had lived, she was never going to be Queen and that's the end of that.
Yes, she is his lawful wife and is also entitled to be styled as Princess of Wales. Being the "mother of the heirs" doesn't have anything to do with it. Should Earl Spencer's first wife be entitled to be called Countess Spencer forever and the earl's future wives only be called Mrs. Spencer because she gave birth to the heir? The whole "Diana had it so Camilla can't" is just silly to me. If Diana had eventually become Mrs. Hasnat Khan, would it have been OK for Camilla to be styled Princess of Wales? I would be pretty annoyed if I couldn't take my husband's name just because his ex-wife still had it......
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  #323  
Old 05-28-2007, 09:25 PM
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I agree with you, but I also understand why it was done and that may have included Camilla's own desire to be sensitive to her two future stepsons who lost their mother.

But once her husband becomes The Sovereign, that's it.
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  #324  
Old 05-28-2007, 09:41 PM
ysbel's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btsnyder
I don't think this is accurate. Diana was "HRH The Princess of Wales" during her marriage. After the divorce she was styled "Diana, Princess of Wales," which is the typical style for a divorced or dowager peeress. Similarly, Sarah was "HRH The Duchess of York" during her marriage and "Sarah, Duchess of York" afterwards.
Yes, that is right, however, I think BP had to put out an announcement of how Diana's name was to be used with the title. People were used to Lady Diana so to start calling her Princess Diana would have seemed natural (but wrong). If you used Diana's name with the title it had to be Diana, Princess of Wales.
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  #325  
Old 05-28-2007, 09:45 PM
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Again, it was a guideline, but essentially inaccurate since that form is reserved for a divorcee or dowager peeress. She was always and only HRH The Princess of Wales while married.
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  #326  
Old 05-28-2007, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
I agree with you, but I also understand why it was done and that may have included Camilla's own desire to be sensitive to her two future stepsons who lost their mother.
Interesting point, but I think it had much, much more to do to bowing to public opinion - something the Royal Family learned in the aftermath of Diana's death - than taking the boys feelings into account. I really don't think they would have cared. I doubt they thought/think of their mother as HRH The Princess of Wales, but rather as "mummy," just as Camilla is probably just "Camilla," to them, not HRH The Duchess of Cornwall. My mother remarried and took her husband's name. I can't say I've lost any sleep over it! :-)
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  #327  
Old 05-29-2007, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
I think being styled as Duchess of Cornwall was a necessary concession to the fact that Diana died with the style of Princess of Wales and was the mother of Princes William and Harry. ......
No it wasn't neccesary, IMO. That would be saying only first wives, regardless of their behavior or marital status, have the only right to be called Mrs ??? or Lady ????

Just because someone dies with a particular title, does not mean that dead person holds the exclusive right to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Hey, I've got a question to throw out at you all. Who here believes Camilla should not have the Princess of Wales title ever but believe that she should be crowned Queen when Charles is crowned King.
As you might have guessed (put that crystal ball away), I believe that Camilla should be using the Princess of Wales title, which she has anyway. Of course she should be crowned Queen when Charles becomes King.
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  #328  
Old 05-29-2007, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
No it wasn't neccesary, IMO. That would be saying only first wives, regardless of their behavior or marital status, have the only right to be called Mrs ??? or Lady ????

Just because someone dies with a particular title, does not mean that dead person holds the exclusive right to it.


As you might have guessed (put that crystal ball away), I believe that Camilla should be using the Princess of Wales title, which she has anyway. Of course she should be crowned Queen when Charles becomes King.


Make that two of us. I certainly think she should be using the title Princess of Wales. She most certainly should be crowned Queen when the time comes.
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  #329  
Old 05-29-2007, 07:45 AM
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I do not recall the Queen ever issuing any grant to call Diana "Princess Diana"; however, in a similar vein, in the months after Diana's death, the Palace did issue a statement saying that it was ok to call her Diana, the Princess of Wales, hence giving the "ok" the reinstate the royal and special "the" which had been taken out due to the divorce.

Enough time has passed I think, and after the passage of much more time, Diana will always be remembered fondly for her contributions both as HRH The Princess of Wales and as Diana, Princess of Wales, but the traditional use of the title will be uninhibited for future use, without all the public "debate" about it. Camilla has the title and doesn't want to use it, that's fine, but I hope that the next woman who has the title will be free to use it without feeling guilty. Oh that Diana..... still causing so much "trouble", hehe. You know, if diana is looking down on all this debate about the title, she is laughing about it. It is rather funny, isn't it? Very silly to "debate" this. Everyone, smile!
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  #330  
Old 05-29-2007, 07:26 PM
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It is what it is. If Camilla and Charles are satisfied with her style, then we should be too. She is the wife of the heir to the throne and has appropriate precedence and title.
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  #331  
Old 05-29-2007, 09:28 PM
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I suspect that Diana may actually be the last person to formally use the title Princess of Wales - not because it was Diana that held the title but because of growing Welsh nationalism.

It is possible that Charles won't create William Prince of Wales because the Welsh don't want a Prince of Wales in the current form. Who knows.

This is all speculation of course and I hope that I am proved wrong but....
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  #332  
Old 05-29-2007, 09:33 PM
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It could happen. There is also the strong possibility (likely when Charles ascends the throne) of new letters patent being issued limiting the style and title of HRH Prince/Princess of the UK to the children of the Sovereign and the eldest child of the current heir.
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  #333  
Old 05-29-2007, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
It could happen. There is also the strong possibility (likely when Charles ascends the throne) of new letters patent being issued limiting the style and title of HRH Prince/Princess of the UK to the children of the Sovereign and the eldest child of the current heir.
That's an interesting possibility. It does seem as though recent Princes of Wales have really ignored the Principality, and it's no surprise that the Welsh people might get irked by having a Prince who waxes eloquent about the glories of Balmoral and doesn't show his face in Wales more than once every blue moon or so.
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  #334  
Old 05-29-2007, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
That's an interesting possibility. It does seem as though recent Princes of Wales have really ignored the Principality, and it's no surprise that the Welsh people might get irked by having a Prince who waxes eloquent about the glories of Balmoral and doesn't show his face in Wales more than once every blue moon or so.

I suspect that for William to be created Prince of Wales there would need to be an undertaking that he would live for part of the year in Wales and openly support things Welsh.

Remember the criticism he received some months ago for supporting England in a rugby match against England when he is the Patron, or something, of the Welsh Rugby Union. At least Anne, who has the same position in Scotland openly supports Scotland in these things.
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  #335  
Old 05-30-2007, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
I suspect that for William to be created Prince of Wales there would need to be an undertaking that he would live for part of the year in Wales and openly support things Welsh.

Remember the criticism he received some months ago for supporting England in a rugby match against England when he is the Patron, or something, of the Welsh Rugby Union. At least Anne, who has the same position in Scotland openly supports Scotland in these things.
Yeah, very true. Good point! It's understandable, of course, for Prince William to support England, but at the same time, it was thoughtless not to at least make an effort there.... You're right about Anne, and also she sent her kids to Scottish school and her son played Scottish schoolboy rugby. At any rate, lots of countries would be happy, I'm sure, to have Prince William if Wales is a no-go down the line! America's young women would take him as Prince of USA!
I'm being silly; obviously I know that would never happen!
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  #336  
Old 05-31-2007, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
I think being styled as Duchess of Cornwall was a necessary concession to the fact that Diana died with the style of Princess of Wales and was the mother of Princes William and Harry. It would have been insensitive for a second wife who was not the mother of the heirs to be styled as Princess of Wales, even though Camilla has the right to do so
Camilla has the title Duchess of Rothesay and that was one of Diana's titles. She should be Princess of Wales and one day be Queen.
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  #337  
Old 05-31-2007, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Camilla's own desire to be sensitive to her two future stepsons who lost their mother.
But once her husband becomes The Sovereign, that's it.
I had never thought about that before but I bet that is the reason for her title. Camilla seems like that kind of lady that would think about William and Harry feelings. If this is the true reason, then Camilla is truly a Lady!
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  #338  
Old 05-31-2007, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
Camilla has the title Duchess of Rothesay and that was one of Diana's titles. She should be Princess of Wales and one day be Queen.
She is Princess of Wales.
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  #339  
Old 05-31-2007, 01:59 PM
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yes she is Princess of Wales. To honor Diana, she chose to be known as the Duchess of Cornwall. But i do hope she'll be the Queen not Princess Consort.
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  #340  
Old 05-31-2007, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banda_windsor
To honor Diana, she chose to be known as the Duchess of Cornwall.
Do you think that was the reason?
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