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  #181  
Old 01-02-2006, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry
Hey Guys,
I'm still stuck on Camilla's title as a princess. I've noticed that she has just about every peerage ranking except for one. Are the ranks 'Marquess' and 'Marchioness' still used today or am I way off the mark? Or is it that it just doesn't apply to the Windsors? I just always thought that a marquess was heir to a dukedom. Somebody please school me!
Marquess is still a valid rank of the peerage, below a Duke. Many of the hereditary dukedoms of the UK also have marquessates or earldoms, which are normally used as courtesy styles by the eldest son.

The last royal Marquessates were Milford Haven and Cambridge, both created in 1917 by George V for his cousins, Prince Louis of Battenberg (Philip's maternal grandfather), and Prince Adolphus of Teck (Queen Mary's nephew). George V ordered them to stop using their German princely and ducal styles in the UK, as a result of anti-German sentiment during WWI, and created them British peers to compensate. Both marquessates are now extinct.

Charles' title at birth was HRH Prince Charles of Edinburgh per letters patent of George VI (under the 1917 letters patent of George V, only the children of sons of the sovereign were entitled to the rank of Royal Highness and prince/princess of the UK).

When Elizabeth became Queen in 1952, Charles automatically became Duke of Cornwall (in England), Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick & Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles and Prince & Great Steward (all of Scotland) as the heir to the throne. In 1958, The Queen created him Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester as is customary for the heir to the throne.

Camilla became a Royal Highness and Princess of the UK with marriage. Because her husband holds many peerages, she shares all of his titles, but was granted her request to be styled "Duchess of Cornwall" in Great Britain, and "Duchess of Rothesay" in Scotland by The Queen.
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  #182  
Old 01-02-2006, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Marquess is still a valid rank of the peerage, below a Duke. Many of the hereditary dukedoms of the UK also have marquessates or earldoms, which are normally used as courtesy styles by the eldest son...
Thanks branchg. So Prince William is the Marquess of something since Prince Charles is the Duke of Cornwall?
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  #183  
Old 01-02-2006, 10:39 PM
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No; the dukedom of Cornwall doesn't have a hereditary marqessate that goes with it.
  #184  
Old 01-02-2006, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
No; the dukedom of Cornwall doesn't have a hereditary marqessate that goes with it.
Oh...are there any dukedoms with hereditary marquessates? Or am I beating a dead horse?
  #185  
Old 01-02-2006, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry
Oh...are there any dukedoms with hereditary marquessates? Or am I beating a dead horse?
Yes there are, but none of the royal dukedoms do. They all have an earldom and barony as secondary titles.
  #186  
Old 01-02-2006, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry
Thanks branchg. So Prince William is the Marquess of something since Prince Charles is the Duke of Cornwall?
Most of the marquesates are held by non-royal Dukes who were granted hereditary titles through the centuries by various Sovereigns, working their way up the peerage for service to the Crown. So for instance, they may have become a Sir Tom Smith, then another ancestor became an Earl of X, another became a Marquess of X and then another became a Duke of X. So slowly they have all of these other hereditary titles inherited after the death of the last male holder, along with their primary rank of Duke of Whatever.

Hope this helps!
  #187  
Old 01-02-2006, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Marquess is still a valid rank of the peerage, below a Duke. Many of the hereditary dukedoms of the UK also have marquessates or earldoms, which are normally used as courtesy styles by the eldest son.

The last royal Marquessates were Milford Haven and Cambridge, both created in 1917 by George V for his cousins, Prince Louis of Battenberg (Philip's maternal grandfather), and Prince Adolphus of Teck (Queen Mary's nephew). George V ordered them to stop using their German princely and ducal styles in the UK, as a result of anti-German sentiment during WWI, and created them British peers to compensate. Both marquessates are now extinct.

The Marquessate of Milford Haven isn't extinct according to this geneological table or the Roll of the Peerage.

http://translate.google.com/translat...l%3Den%26lr%3D


http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/ro...marquesses.htm


For it to be extint there has to be no male heir to the 4th Marquis and according to this he is still alive and has a son and a brother both still living.
  #188  
Old 01-03-2006, 01:00 AM
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I don't know if I'm being ignorant but why Louise isn't a princess, isn't a privilege for all the daughters of the sons of the sovereign? or the Queen sat a law or something about it?
another question: do William and Harry have any dukedom or some kind or title or "just" are Princes of the UK?
  #189  
Old 01-03-2006, 01:16 AM
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It us unlikely that when Louise grows up she will take on royal duties. So her parents want her to have a normal life and not have the big title. Willam and Harry do not have Dukedoms yet. They are simply Princes right now.
  #190  
Old 01-03-2006, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisiñaki
I don't know if I'm being ignorant but why Louise isn't a princess, isn't a privilege for all the daughters of the sons of the sovereign? or the Queen sat a law or something about it?
another question: do William and Harry have any dukedom or some kind or title or "just" are Princes of the UK?

Like Camilla is not using the title Princess of Wales that she is entitled to use as the wife of the Prince of Wales Louise isn't using the style HRH Princess even though she is entitled to do so.

This was done at the request of her parents and is probably due to the fact that she probably won't undertake royal duties but will have to live a more normal life.
  #191  
Old 01-03-2006, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by chrissy57
Like Camilla is not using the title Princess of Wales that she is entitled to use as the wife of the Prince of Wales Louise isn't using the style HRH Princess even though she is entitled to do so.

This was done at the request of her parents and is probably due to the fact that she probably won't undertake royal duties but will have to live a more normal life.
But she actually helds the HRH title?
  #192  
Old 01-03-2006, 03:22 AM
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If I am correct...

HRH Princess Louise of Wessex is the childs actual birthright title, however, by the decision of her parents and the approval of HM the Queen is publically known & referred to as, Lady Louise (ne; Mountbatten-Windsor).

When she comes of age, it is her Ladyships decision (solely) as to whether or not she wishes to keep her current title (which I think she shall), or infact revert back to the title & status of HRH & Princess of the United Kingdom & Northern Ireland.

'MII"
  #193  
Old 01-03-2006, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margrethe II
If I am correct...

HRH Princess Louise of Wessex is the childs actual birthright title, however, by the decision of her parents and the approval of HM the Queen is publically known & referred to as, Lady Louise (ne; Mountbatten-Windsor).

When she comes of age, it is her Ladyships decision (solely) as to whether or not she wishes to keep her current title (which I think she shall), or infact revert back to the title & status of HRH & Princess of the United Kingdom & Northern Ireland.

'MII"
Thank you!!!
  #194  
Old 01-03-2006, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by crisiñaki
Thank you!!!
You're welcome...

"MII"
  #195  
Old 01-03-2006, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by chrissy57
The Marquessate of Milford Haven isn't extinct according to this geneological table or the Roll of the Peerage.

For it to be extint there has to be no male heir to the 4th Marquis and according to this he is still alive and has a son and a brother both still living.
My mistake! You are correct. George Mountbatten (great-grandson of Prince Louis) is the 4th Marquess and has a son, Henry, Earl of Medina.
  #196  
Old 01-03-2006, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
However he will inherit the title the instant Charles becomes king and will be known as the Duke of Cornwall for a period of time before becoming Prince of Wales, assuming that Charles gives him that title.
A lot of people miss the fact that when Charles becomes King, it is up to him to decide whether to offer the title Prince of Wales to William.:)
  #197  
Old 01-03-2006, 09:35 AM
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So who is Ivar Mountbatten? Do I have the name right?

In regards to Lady Louise, yes she might not have perform in official duties but I doubt she will lead a truly "normal" life. Not to wish harm on the little girl, but she is the granddaughter of a Monarch and the media will need a new "princess" to focus on in about 16 years or so. Zara has had her fill....Beatrice and Eugenie are getting older and you will be seeing them more in the public eye.
  #198  
Old 01-03-2006, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Most of the marquesates are held by non-royal Dukes who were granted hereditary titles through the centuries by various Sovereigns, working their way up the peerage for service to the Crown. So for instance, they may have become a Sir Tom Smith, then another ancestor became an Earl of X, another became a Marquess of X and then another became a Duke of X. So slowly they have all of these other hereditary titles inherited after the death of the last male holder, along with their primary rank of Duke of Whatever.

Hope this helps!
branchg,
Thanks to you and Elspeth. With the two of you I might just learn something yet!
  #199  
Old 01-03-2006, 01:20 PM
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Thank you very much for that post :)
  #200  
Old 01-03-2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
So who is Ivar Mountbatten? Do I have the name right?
Ivar Mountbatten is George's younger brother.

He would only succeed to the title if his older brother and nephew both died without further legitimate male issue.
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