Title for Camilla - Part 3

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by serenissima

Oh, I see. Maybe, Austrian people are not that bothered about these titles as much as the aristocratic German people are. However, some of the members of the Habsburg family have a lot to do with Bavaria and don't they live there now ? Surely they must have some titles that are to do with Bavaria or its surrounding areas. Are they Germans by nationality or what are they now ?

I don't think you can say that about the people of a country when we are dealing with political reasons of the treatment of the nobility after WWI. I have no doubt that the Austrians know exactly who this widowed lady with the name Esterhazy is who lives at Schloss Esterhazy in Eisenstadt/Austria....And of course the people working for this lady call her "Fuerstin" (princess) when they meet her, even though she is plain Mrs. Esterhazy according to Austrian law.

As for the Habsburg-Lothringen: maybe you just want to check out the threads relating to this family and the other German-Austrian families on the Non-reigning families-forums here. Lots of really interesting information and quite informative links provided there.

[serenissima]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

The Hong Kong born lady is HE Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg.

Oh, I see. Well, this alternative title for herself was talked about here before they got married then. Then, we were told that she was going to style herself as the Duchess of Cornwall than the Princess of Wales because of those reasons that we know.

Obviously, as you can see, I am not at all that comfortable with this Camilla becoming HM the Queen in due course and will feel somehow right if they did stick to the first idea of the Princess Consort thing or call her something like the Duchess of Highgrove or the Princess of London or whatever. Or maybe, the Duchess of Tasmania, how about that ?

It may be just fun for those people who are not British or the peoples of the Commomwealth to chat about this matter but we have to stick to it once she became our queen and I do find it really uncomfortable to think that she is my queen, if you know what I mean.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by serenissima

Having said that, since now we know what he was doing behind the scene writing to the certain MPs and what-not in order to pursue his own interests/cause etc, one becomes very suspicious of him. Even some old people whom I visit in those homes who were very fond of the Prince "Charles" (as they call him) before now feel as though they are let down by him.

It is good that people receive those letters from the prince et al but when they attend those numerous functions and events etc, they always write back to the organisers et al and admire their hard work etc. Even some people get OBE and things like that. I know few people who are decorated in this way but some of them are not that hard working according their members that they call such OBEs as "Other Buggers' Effort".

You should really try to make a difference between things that the government does (or does not) and what the prince does (or does not).. What Charles is doing at the moment is trying to influence politicians in order to help causes he sees as necessary for the country. He can't do it openly because it's a constitutional monarchy in Britain and it's the politicians who decide, the men and women given their office by the people of Britain through their votes. Charles has nothing to decide and once he is king, he can't even write open letters to politicians, he can only "advise" the prime minister then. So what can he do? He is chained by the law but still tries to make a difference.

Ah, and the people receiving honours are not selected by the Royal family, but by the politicians and the government. So put the blame for those OBE's to them.

But maybe we should switch that discussion to the Charles & Camilla-opinion-thread? Mods? Thank you in advance.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by serenissima

Oh, I see. You know a lot of this sort of thing. However, there are no "commoners" in Germany, are there ? My friends in Germany always say that they are German nationals but I am a Queen's subject.

That's why I highlighted the "commoner" - Germany of todays makes no difference but I bet the Preussen-family does. And I don't think the senior family members like it that one daughter went against tradition and took advantage of the German laws to keep the prestigious "Prinzessin von Preussen"-name for her daughters, even though she had married a plain Mr.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by serenissima

Obviously, as you can see, I am not at all that comfortable with this Camilla becoming HM the Queen in due course and will feel somehow right if they did stick to the first idea of the Princess Consort thing or call her something like the Duchess of Highgrove or the Princess of London or whatever. Or maybe, the Duchess of Tasmania, how about that ?

It may be just fun for those people who are not British or the peoples of the Commomwealth to chat about this matter but we have to stick to it once she became our queen and I do find it really uncomfortable to think that she is my queen, if you know what I mean.

Duchess of Tasmania?.lol. You really don't warm to her do you. I don't know a single person who would happily assume that title...

I think she's most probably a fine lady with a kind nature and great sense of humour, though HRH just doesn't embody the image of Majesty for me.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

I think she's most probably a fine lady with a kind nature and great sense of humour, though HRH just doesn't embody the image of Majesty for me.

But if she did, wouldn't people assume she appeared to be "above her station" or even tried to outrank the queen? I think in due course we will see that king Charles (George VII.) and queen Camilla will be just a picture perfect Royal couple as George VI. and queen Elizabeth were.

[jcbcode99]

I'm sure a lot of people didn't imagine Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon as Her Majesty, either. She was born a commoner, was a little plump, somewhat dowdy, and coming behind Queens Mary and Alexandra she didn't have their regal and majestic style--I believe she was desribed once as as a sweet, chattering little thing. However, she was quite beloved. I realize the circumstances are different here for multiple reasons, but getting back to creating Camilla a Princess in her own right--that could be interesting--but like some think that HM doesn't suit her, I don't think that Princess suits her very well either.

[Warren]

I have removed a post relating to Empress Zita. Now that we are back on track discussing Camilla's title could we please try to keep further discussion of German, Austrian, Slovak etc titles out of the thread please.

thanks

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

But if she did, wouldn't people assume she appeared to be "above her station" or even tried to outrank the queen? I think in due course we will see that king Charles (George VII.) and queen Camilla will be just a picture perfect Royal couple as George VI. and queen Elizabeth were.

No no, I think we're lost in translation.

What I meant was that I don't think Camilla will embody the image of Majesty, after her husbands succession. I just don't see a 'Queen' in her. And I say that with not the slightest bit malice intended because it really is nothing negative about her, which has established my opinion.

She will make a great consort, but it remains my great hope that she be the Princess Consort...

[love_cc]

I still find the idea of Princess Consort is hard to accept. As long as Camilla remains as Prince Charles's lawful wife, no doubt Camilla has every right to be called Queen Camilla under any circumstances. I am not against the idea of creating Camilla into a Princess herself but definitely not Princess consort. This word causes my feeling of unequal marriage as well as unrecognised position of the second wife.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

But if she did, wouldn't people assume she appeared to be "above her station" or even tried to outrank the queen? I think in due course we will see that king Charles (George VII.) and queen Camilla will be just a picture perfect Royal couple as George VI. and queen Elizabeth were.

Of course they would and people would be on here asking 'how dare she'. To me, she acts exactly how I would wish the female members to act, with discretion and silence with regard to the press.

[serenissima]

I am sure, as I have been told so by some people who have met her, Camilla is a nice enough lady but not that great either. However, people who do want this sport called fox hunting to continue find her and her husband their Salvatori Mundi, and she is already HM the Queen to them, I am sure.

How about "Foxy Lady" for her as her new title ?

[sirhon11234]

How about "Foxy Lady" for her as her new title ?

No.

I guess we all will find out which title she will use in time.

[Roslyn]

It has occurred to me that maybe Camilla really doesn't want to be Queen, and would prefer to be Princess Consort. She may see herself having more freedom with the lesser title and it might be her idea.

Just a thought.

[TheTruth]

And you're probably right Roslyn. I always thought Charles was more the one trying to impose Camilla as future Queen. Camilla never liked the limelight, IMO. She's very discreet and simple. I honestly can't see her claiming her title of Queen.

[serenissima]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

It has occurred to me that maybe Camilla really doesn't want to be Queen, and would prefer to be Princess Consort. She may see herself having more freedom with the lesser title and it might be her idea.

Just a thought.

Well, that was what we were told before they got married. Mrs Parker-Bowles didn't really want to get married but was very happy to carry on things as they had been etc but since it was the Prince of Wales with whom she was in love and the Queen apparently wanted the prince to formalise their relationship etc that they got married though Camilla was very reluctant etc. Then, Camilla herself said something like that she was not wanting to become HM the Queen upon the prince's assenssion to the throne and if possible wanted to hold a lesser style such as a princess or whatever. Then some people were saying that they would associate a "princess" with a younger woman etc that I was saying but the Princess Alice was very old but we wouldn't find that strange etc.

So, I, too, think that Camilla would rather stay as a princess (or even as Camilla Parker-Bowles and seeing to her gardens and horses etc) but her husband has to have everything in his way and wants her to become HM the Queen when he becomes the king etc, so I understand.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

And you're probably right Roslyn. I always thought Charles was more the one to trying to impose Camilla as future Queen. Camilla never liked the limelight, IMO. She's very discreet and simple. I honestly can't see her claiming her title of Queen.

I actually agree with this notion myself. I do not believe Camilla really wants to be Queen nor was she particularly interested in marrying Charles and becoming The Princess of Wales. She is very independent and marrying a future king is not exactly a life of leisure.

The title issue will be settled one way or another when the time comes. While I think Parliament will very reluctant to change the precedent, it certainly is possible to do so and allow her to hold the lesser style and rank of Princess Consort.