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  #1021  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
I don't think that The Queen deserves any venom, BF. I'm sure that whatever she did she did for the best, according to her views and priorities.

I think that any 'venom' should be reserved for Clarence House and its selfish refusal to consider, much less begin to understand, the ramifications for Camilla.

Another opinion....

Ingrid Seward, editor of Majesty magazine, said: "This could only have come from the Queen, it could only have come from the highest."

"Camilla probably thought it was her duty to go, but now she's been let off the hook."


Seward said the decision to invite Camilla, which angered Diana's friends and was unpopular with the public, had been "madness". She added: "All eyes would have been on her. It would have been awful for her." (Daily Mirror).



The irony is, of course, that it's the ill-considered actions of Clarence House which has literally fanned the flames of the Diana/Camilla debate all over again. They should have known better, and I believe that some did.

Oh my goodness...I could KISS you LOL! That is exactly my point. It was selfish and silly for Clarence House to try and bulldoze Camilla into the service in the first place. Of course the Princes HAD to invite her. She is their father's wife. They are well brought up young men. But out of sensitivity to the Spencer Family-not to mention the overwhelming majority of Britons polled who feel that it would insult the late Princesses memory-Clarence House should have politely declined. At once.

Charles has gotten his way. He has married Camilla despite the opposition of the Queen, The Duke of Edinburgh and the late Queen Mother. Not to mention a good portion of his future subjects. He is enjoying a happy married life with her. He should be happy to leave well enough ALONE.
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  #1022  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
She hasn't ended this nonsense, she's once again given into bullying. She's simply put Camilla in a horrible position. She certainly doesn't have my respect for doing that.

I read in a British magazine last week where an intimate of Camilla's said she was "dreading" attending this event...since some Diana supporters had threatened to pelt her with raw eggs outside the Guards Chapel.

Do you really, really suppose The Duchess of Cornwall is hurt and disappointed that she wont be attending the memorial of a woman who loathed her, and who's husband she had been committing adultery with for the majority of her marriage??
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  #1023  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:26 PM
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Do you really, really suppose The Duchess of Cornwall is hurt and disappointed that she wont be attending the memorial of a woman who loathed her, and who's husband she had been committing adultery with for the majority of her marriage??
I think that she's the Princess of Wales now and deserves to be treated with the respect the office brings.
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  #1024  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Were you there and heard her saying that? Maybe she said it and meant that she gave the rose to Charles to plant in his garden? Dedicated Gardeners use this kind of language... IMHO this discusssion isn't about facts but about interpretations. You don't like Camilla, I do. So in the current sitzúation there is not much to be done..

I don't think any of us have "been there" and personally heard anything now have we? I have read voraciously on the subject of this tragedy since I was a teenager. Several biographers of both Camilla, Charles and the late Princess herself have mentioned the incident with Camilla planting her own garden at Highgrove and spending time with Charles there on weekends when Diana remained in London. And this was BEFORE the separation.

I don't hate Camilla. I don't admire her, that is all. For the record, outside of her personal style and elegance I don't hold the late Princess up as my personal role model either. I didn't admire her manipulations of the press, her tendency to use her children as pawns in her battles with her husband.

I just have more sympathy for her because unlike Charles and Camilla-she was a teenager. She was at a disadvantage going into the marriage-unlike the two of them-because she expected to love the man she was married and BE loved in return without the interference of a third party who already had a
husband and children of her own.
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  #1025  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
Charles has gotten his way. He has married Camilla despite the opposition of the Queen, The Duke of Edinburgh and the late Queen Mother. Not to mention a good portion of his future subjects. He is enjoying a happy married life with her. He should be happy to leave well enough ALONE.
Who said the Queen was against her marriage to Camilla? For me, all Charles had waited was the understanding of his sons, to ensure that the Queen Mother would not be upset, and the changes in people's opinion. I think the Queen knows exactly what would happen if Charles did not marry Camilla but let her and her father have apartments in Clarence House and allow Charle and Camilla to entain his guests for his charities in Sandringham, Buckingham Palace and other royal residences. Don't you see the trend?
Charles is waiting for the right opportunity and the Queen is waiting for him to marry Camilla before her death. Marrying Camilla is always a part of Charles' plan. It happened earlier because they are not allowed to sit together in his godson's wedding, but it is just the right because it happens before Camilla's children got married and before the Queen reached 80. Accept or not, everyone in the palace knows it is a question of when not if.
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  #1026  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
I read in a British magazine last week where an intimate of Camilla's said she was "dreading" attending this event...since some Diana supporters had threatened to pelt her with raw eggs outside the Guards Chapel.
We've been hearing all sorts of stuff from "intimates" of this or that royal for years. Unless these are attributed quotes, we have no way of knowing that they weren't made up.

Quote:
Do you really, really suppose The Duchess of Cornwall is hurt and disappointed that she wont be attending the memorial of a woman who loathed her, and who's husband she had been committing adultery with for the majority of her marriage??
I assume she would do as she's done since her marriage, which is to provide whatever support to her husband that she could. I have no idea whether she wanted to go (common sense would suggest that she didn't, but royals don't get to base their decisions on what they may or may not want), but I think it's safe to say that she didn't want things to turn out like this.
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  #1027  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
I think that she's the Princess of Wales now and deserves to be treated with the respect the office brings.

She is in fact not the Princess of Wales. She is Duchess of Cornwall. And I am still willing to bet she is relieved that she doesn't have to be at that service.

What WOULD have been disrespectful is if the Princes had not bothered to invite her at all. But they did and Clarence House should not have put her in that position period.

I am sorry that you feel cheated of "your" Princess. For myself and millions of other people the world over, you should count your blessings that the Duchess at least has her life.

We don't FEEL cheated out of Diana-we unfortunately HAVE been cheated.

For eternity.
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  #1028  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:40 PM
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I am going to make a statement of my own opinion, which I think is relevant. Bear in mind that I am neither a Camilla or Diana lover or hater. I am ambivalent, because it is what it is.

Having said that, I think that one of the reasons that Camilla is as composed as she is, and has the common sense that she has is because she was able to lead a relatively normal adult life and face normal situations without the constraints of being a Royal. I think that "normalcy" has and will continue to hold her in good stead.

Diana, on the other hand, had her adult life completely run for her. She had no opportunity to make mistakes without people watching and being critical from all sides. She never had the opportunity to have normal adult situations which would have made her all the more adult in situations such as what Camilla is facing now.

I think that it is a relevant and much over looked fact.

Our experiences shortly into adulthood shape our outlook on life and the way that we comport ourselves.

So Camilla has that everyday normalcy to get her through the tough times. She will likely know that this is nothing but a blip in what will be a long and happy life hopefully.
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  #1029  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
I don't think any of us have "been there" and personally heard anything now have we? I have read voraciously on the subject of this tragedy since I was a teenager. Several biographers of both Camilla, Charles and the late Princess herself have mentioned the incident with Camilla planting her own garden at Highgrove and spending time with Charles there on weekends when Diana remained in London. And this was BEFORE the separation..
Diana had smugged her lovers, James Hewitt, Oliver Hoare and Hasent Khan in Highgrove and Kengsington Place before and after the separation, Remeber? Paul Burrel said Camilla had never stayed nights in " Royal duty". If he said so, I would rather believe what he said after all he is a Diana fan and the is no reason for him to say good things about Camilla.

Diana should have never married Charles if she had already realised he was in love with any other woman or likely he would never really forget her. If she was really that insecure, she would have never picked such a man. Or she was really that naive but confident about her youth, her beauty and her virginity to win over her husband. Then she was too shallow to understand whatever love means: devotion, sacrifice, and endurance.
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  #1030  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:42 PM
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diana believed in charles. charles slep with another woman days before he get married. camilla was always there she didnt allow them to have a calm and happy marriage.
if youre married how would you feel with that?
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  #1031  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:43 PM
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She is in fact not the Princess of Wales. She is Duchess of Cornwall. And I am still willing to bet she is relieved that she doesn't have to be at that service. I am sorry that you feel cheated of "your" Princess. For myself and millions of other people the world over, you should count your blessings that the Duchess at least has her life. We don't FEEL cheated out of Diana-we unfortunately HAVE been cheated.
She most certainly is. She is legally HRH The Princess of Wales. I should count my blessings that Camilla is alive? That's how it works now is it? Everyone else must hang their heads in shame because they're alive and Diana is dead? If you feel cheated, take it up with God and not with Camilla. Camilla isn't the one who gadded around Paris, Camilla isn't the one who got into the car that night, Camilla isn't the one who didn't put her seatbelt on and Camilla isn't the one who encouraged the press to take photographs of her every 5 minutes - that is why Diana is dead, it has nothing to do with Camilla whatsoever. Diana is dead and she's more trouble now than she ever was - don't you dare expect me to feel guilty about wanting to see MY country ruled by a dignified and ALIVE Royal Family.
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  #1032  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by love_cc View Post
Who said the Queen was against her marriage to Camilla? For me, all Charles had waited was the understanding of his sons, to ensure that the Queen Mother would not be upset, and the changes in people's opinion. I think the Queen knows exactly what would happen if Charles did not marry Camilla but let her and her father have apartments in Clarence House and allow Charle and Camilla to entain his guests for his charities in Sandringham, Buckingham Palace and other royal residences. Don't you see the trend?
Charles is waiting for the right opportunity and the Queen is waiting for him to marry Camilla before her death. Marrying Camilla is always a part of Charles' plan. It happened earlier because they are not allowed to sit together in his godson's wedding, but it is just the right because it happens before Camilla's children got married and before the Queen reached 80. Accept or not, everyone in the palace knows it is a question of when not if.

Charles did not marry Camilla until AFTER the death of the Queen Mother. I am sort of confused regarding most of the content of your post, but as for your last sentence I tend to agree. Britons will eventually be getting Queen Camilla whether they want her or not.
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  #1033  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:49 PM
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Wow! Work clouds your life for a couple of days and you come back to this!

For the record, I have always thought it was inappropriate for Camila to attend Diana's memorial. Yes, I understand she was invited by Diana's sons and she wanted to support them, etc but REALLY it was just too much! IMO its just tacky...and the main reason is the history between the three. Now, if Camila had been Charle's 2nd wife, who didn't play a role in his marriage break up then I will admit, I wouldn't have a problem with her attending. But she did and the fact remains is that they WERE NOT FRIENDS.

If had been stated in the beginning the William and Harry invited her, but she thought under the circumstances (and you could read into that statement what ever you wish) it would be best if she didn't attend. That woudl have been acceptable.

I am not a fan of Camilla's but neither am I a die hard Diana fan (I do recognize her "errors" but I think its terrible that Clarence House put her in this position. For months some people have been saying that it was a bad decision for her to attend...did they think the furor would go down in the days preceding the actual event. And if Charles insisted that she attend, then shame on him for putting his beloved wife in this position. If Camilla had attended, then she would be the focus of the memorial. The camera would have been on her like crazy? Camilla blinks...is that a tear? I can hear the commentators now...what must she be thinking? It was an awful position for her to be in...and for that she has the advisers to thank.
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  #1034  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
She is in fact not the Princess of Wales. She is Duchess of Cornwall. And I am still willing to bet she is relieved that she doesn't have to be at that service.
She is in fact the Princess of Wales. She's Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Chester, Countess of Carrick, Baroness Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, and Princess of Scotland. She isn't using the style Princess of Wales, but she IS Princess of Wales on account of being married to the Prince of Wales.

And I'm sure you're right that she's relieved she doesn't have to be at the service, but the way this was handled has left her in a very vulnerable position. It's handed ammunition to the people who hate her and to their friends in the press and has ensured that every time they take it into their heads to hound her about something, they'll win. Which may have been the object of the exercise where some of the courtiers were concerned. It's well known that Charles isn't popular with the Establishment, and what better way to weaken him than to cut the ground from under the feet of his partner?


Quote:
We don't FEEL cheated out of Diana-we unfortunately HAVE been cheated.

For eternity.
You haven't been cheated. She died in a car crash a year after she'd been divorced. Perfectly straightforward. And there's no "for eternity" about it.
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  #1035  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
She is in fact not the Princess of Wales. She is Duchess of Cornwall.
Camilla is indeed the Princess of Wales! She is also the Duchess of Cornwall, the Duchess of Rothesay, and has a few other titles too. These all come about because she is married to Charles, and only because she is married to Charles. He is the Prince of Wales, so she is the Princess of Wales. She just doesn't use that title. I wish she had used it from the start, because the longer she doesn't use it, the longer the title is going to be associated with Diana. Diana only had that title because was married to Charles. When they were divorced she lost it.

Quote:
We don't FEEL cheated out of Diana-we unfortunately HAVE been cheated.

For eternity.
I don't understand what you mean by "cheated". She's dead, because she was in a high speed car accident and wasn't wearing a seat belt.
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  #1036  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by love_cc View Post
Diana had smugged her lovers, James Hewitt, Oliver Hoare and Hasent Khan in Highgrove and Kengsington Place before and after the separation, Remeber? Paul Burrel said Camilla had never stayed nights in " Royal duty". If he said so, I would rather believe what he said after all he is a Diana fan and the is no reason for him to say good things about Camilla.

Diana should have never married Charles if she had already realised he was in love with any other woman or likely he would never really forget her. If she was really that insecure, she would have never picked such a man. Or she was really that naive but confident about her youth, her beauty and her virginity to win over her husband. Then she was too shallow to understand whatever love means: devotion, sacrifice, and endurance.

Sure Diana smuggled lovers into the Royal residences...AFTER her husband ceased to sleep with her and had taken up full time with his mistress. I am not saying she was right. But do you know any healthy attractive young women in their twenties/thirties who are celibate?

I am completely baffled by your last paragraph. You seem to intimate that Diana at 19 SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that Charles did not and never would love her, and that he was carrying on with a married woman? I don't know about you but I was just as sheltered as the late Princess at that age. I am not sure why she should have assumed any such thing.

The main fault for entering that marriage in the first place lies with Charles. He was thirty two years old. Old enough to stand up to his Daddy and tell him that he didn't want to marry Lady Diana, and the he wanted to continue to carry on with Mrs Parker Bowles. While we are at it, let's blame Camilla herself as she was alleged to have hand picked Diana for Charles, thinking that she would be easy to manage!(what a surprise she got, eh?)
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  #1037  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:59 PM
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She most certainly is. She is legally HRH The Princess of Wales. I should count my blessings that Camilla is alive? That's how it works now is it? Everyone else must hang their heads in shame because they're alive and Diana is dead? If you feel cheated, take it up with God and not with Camilla. Camilla isn't the one who gadded around Paris, Camilla isn't the one who got into the car that night, Camilla isn't the one who didn't put her seatbelt on and Camilla isn't the one who encouraged the press to take photographs of her every 5 minutes - that is why Diana is dead, it has nothing to do with Camilla whatsoever. Diana is dead and she's more trouble now than she ever was - don't you dare expect me to feel guilty about wanting to see MY country ruled by a dignified and ALIVE Royal Family.
Why are we going down this route this battle between the Camilla vs. Diana is long overdue. And how dare you blame Diana for whats happening today blame those radical fanatics who think that they own the Princess' memory. They are the ones who has caused all this drama not Diana.
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  #1038  
Old 08-27-2007, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
I am going to make a statement of my own opinion, which I think is relevant. Bear in mind that I am neither a Camilla or Diana lover or hater. I am ambivalent, because it is what it is.

Having said that, I think that one of the reasons that Camilla is as composed as she is, and has the common sense that she has is because she was able to lead a relatively normal adult life and face normal situations without the constraints of being a Royal. I think that "normalcy" has and will continue to hold her in good stead.

Diana, on the other hand, had her adult life completely run for her. She had no opportunity to make mistakes without people watching and being critical from all sides. She never had the opportunity to have normal adult situations which would have made her all the more adult in situations such as what Camilla is facing now.

I think that it is a relevant and much over looked fact.

Our experiences shortly into adulthood shape our outlook on life and the way that we comport ourselves.

So Camilla has that everyday normalcy to get her through the tough times. She will likely know that this is nothing but a blip in what will be a long and happy life hopefully.

Empress-this is a wonderful and wise post. Thanks for putting it up.
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  #1039  
Old 08-27-2007, 08:04 PM
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I must admit I was never too excited about Camilla being called, the Princess of Wales. But it is her title. She is married to the Prince of Wales. And in retrospect by not allowing her to go by that title, as well as the most recent decision not to attend the memorial, these actions might have dented her position in a weird way. She is still the Duchess of Cornwall, 2nd lady of the land, soon to be Queen, etc. But the mistakes that are being made...it just seems as if Clarence House is being run by non professionals? Who is in charge of this sinking ship? Did they really think people would like...Oh..Camilla is going to sit in the front row and maybe her presence will go unnoticed??

And I am going to blame Charles for this as well. He wanted Camilla to be his wife, she was non negotiable, always by his side. That's fair. We all deserve to be happy. But you don't put someone you love in this position. Again, stubborness of her attendance put her in awkward position. She wasn't going to win either way it went.
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  #1040  
Old 08-27-2007, 08:09 PM
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And I am going to blame Charles for this as well. He wanted Camilla to be his wife, she was non negotiable, always by his side. That's fair. We all deserve to be happy. But you don't put someone you love in this position. Again, stubborness of her attendance put her in awkward position. She wasn't going to win either way it went.
I, too, blame Charles. He made a blunder insisting she attend, and I think he needs to do something now to show his support for his wife. I think he should stay home too.
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