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  #841  
Old 08-26-2007, 05:57 PM
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Dear Skydragon,
The politicians with short-term views will help the individuals in question to work out how to vote.
Furthermore, the widely diverse subjects of the UK (rich people from all over the world, who buy the real estate and invest in the economy, and others) may not even care about the whole situation with the British Royal Family.
The “memorial service situation” has been planned with the approval of Prince Charles, who obviously underestimated the degree of controversy.
So he can be held responsible for the debacle and embarrassment of his spouse along with the loyalists and mass media.
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  #842  
Old 08-26-2007, 05:59 PM
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I think her statement was perfect -- obviously made with a lot of thought. The entire family was really in a tough spot here, I think. I applaud the way she's decided to approach the situation.
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  #843  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:03 PM
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And, I do not think that her not going makes her a second class member of the royal family. Those with intelligence enough will simply say that she has tried to do the right thing.

And those who think otherwise and find that this makes her a second class member, well do you really care what they think? Any one with enough sense and anyone who likes Camilla will say that she is trying to behave with tact in a tough situation. Granted, I think that she should have done so from the get go, but I think that it was probable a situation that was really difficult for her, so who knows.

None the less, those who would find that this makes her a second class person, well those are the people who I would be inclined to wonder about. It does not make her a second class citizen in my eyes. And I am neither a Camilla or Diana supporter.

Well, simply because I live in the USA does not mean that the etiquette that I know is bound only to the US. Please do not make such assumptions about me in the future.

Having said that, in the US and all the other European countries that I have lived in for the majority of my adult life, etiquette would demand that the former mistress/current wife does not go to the memorial of the ex wife of ANYONE, especially given the history. Charles attendance would have been accepted as the parent of the shared children, and not as the ex husband in my view. And when seen in that regards, I can't see how a current wife would have a place, not should she have been put in the position to begin with.
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  #844  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Dear Skydragon,
The politicians with short-term views will help the individuals in question to work out how to vote.
Furthermore, the widely diverse subjects of the UK (rich people from all over the world, who buy the real estate and invest in the economy, and others) may not even care about the whole situation with the British Royal Family.
The “memorial service situation” has been planned with the approval of Prince Charles, who obviously underestimated the degree of controversy.
So he can be held responsible for the debacle and embarrassment of his spouse along with the loyalists and mass media.
If you are relying on the politicians to lead the uneducated, then the monarchy is safe for a long, long time. It is in the interest of the rich within the UK to keep a stable society and as such investers would I believe back the monarchy, that much was shown in the cash for honours fiasco.

The only ones who can be blamed and shamed over this debacle are the misguided simple souls that still support a woman who died 10 years ago and the money grabbing press (and the people who buy these papers, although as I saw today, not many wanted the free rag about Diana that came with their papers).
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  #845  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:04 PM
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I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one who feel for the Duchess, whom despite all and everything, has become quite dear to me. Maybe her vulnerability, her continue careful walking through a porcelain cabinet, the never ending prying eyes of merciless scrutiny, has won her a place in my heart.

From all the members of the British royal family, from the unappealing Princess Royal (I do not meant it physically), the partying York Princesses, the goofish Prince Edward, the rude Prince Philip, the grey mouse Princess Alexandra, there is only one whom brings a smile on my face, who lightens a room, who breaks the ice and who feels no distance to 'the people'. And that is Camilla of Cornwall.

It is a bit eerie that exactly the same qualities could be found in Diana.... (be it she had a surplus for her younger age and thus a bigger appeal for her physique). I feel this whole exercize is working like a boomerang into the face of the Royal Family. Not in the last place for -again- giving the impression their policies are set out by The Daily Mail....

I agree with the posters who stated the Duchess had never been brought into this situation at all....
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  #846  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:07 PM
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The princes probably want private occasions but since it is a ten year anniversary they felt necessary to have some public activities to remeber their mother and smooth possible conflicts about the issue. Camilla decided to attend because the boys wanted her there and Charles probably needed her there as well. But it will be always Camilla to suffer more pressures than anyone else during the service or even during the summer. She put her own thought after Charles's and his sons's needs which is a great thing to me.

It is a pity that Diana fans regard Camilla's attendance as an insult rather than a respect or a kind of forgiveness and reconcilliation. From the beginning I know it is very very difficult for her not only Diana thing but her own feeling about the significance of the Gurard Chapel in her own life. But now she can hide her own pains and sufferancs behind the palace doors and find her own peace of mind for the rest of the season.

I don't know about the long term effect about this decision. But this is a victory for the tabolits rather the people. I doubt the polls can represent the sample of British population. Now all I care is that Prince Charles will be all right during the service but now it is him becoming the next target. Such a dreadful situation.
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  #847  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:08 PM
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Of course not going makes her a 2nd class member of the family. Princess Anne isn't going, she's got more sense but the point is - she's never been in the position Camilla was in. She's already accepted, she's a Princess by birth, she can't be denied anything. Camilla can and by cutting her out, it reinforces the awful way Camilla is being treated by the establishment. If we knew in 2005 that she was going to be treated like a 2nd class member of the RF, I would have said let them marry and go off into the sunset together and call the whole monarchy thing a day. The Royal Family is finished and now, it deserves to be. They should be ashamed of the way Camilla is being pushed aside and if they can't stand up to the press, the loony fringe and the [insult deleted - Elspeth] who wobble their double chins every time someone mentions the word divorce that seem to still control the Royal Family, then they're bog useless and should be put out to pasture.
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  #848  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
I, for one, have always been opposed to the form of this memorial service, believing it to be contentious and divisive, which it has been. I have always thought it a manufactured PR exercise (when has there ever been one before?; why weren't Diana's sons told that a friends and family gathering would be more appropriate if they wished to have one, and not a 500 seat spectacular which excluded so many of their mother's genuine friends?), and as is so often the case, the whole exercise has been turned into a farce.

The only one who was bound to suffer was Camilla, as she has. The only one who has shown good sense throughout is Camilla, who was, allegedly, reluctant to go from the beginning and only agreed to do so at her husband's insistence. The only one who comes out of this with any kudos at all, is Camilla. She is a woman, obviously, of common sense and sensitivity, and it's a great pity, in my opinion, that the rest of the family apparently share very little of her intuition and nous. Time and again the Windsors get it wrong; they need Camilla to bring some reality into their lives. That she has been unfairly victimised in this whole matter is clear to me, but I do not blame the gutter press so much as I do those royal advisers who just don't have a clue and never have had. They've almost brought the family down before and once again, have exposed them to all sorts of criticism and spite, particularly the Duchess. I do believe that she was seen as being expendable in all of this and it truly annoys me.
I have not always agreed with you, Polly, but on this, I am starting to feel like you. I appreciate how well you have stated your feelings about this matter. Like I have said before, Camilla is one tough cookie.
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  #849  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:12 PM
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Dear Skydragon,
Thanks for the answer. I am glad to know that the British royalty has got such loyal subjects. It is just unfortunate that the royalty seems to be for sale.
Moreover, it is disappointing to see how well-bred and etiquette-educated individuals from the UK can not accept the opposing views with composure.
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  #850  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:18 PM
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Well then, it is a bit sad that even those who support Camilla are helping to turn this into a disaster by letting this mess turn them into as rabid supporters of Camilla as Dianas supporters are of her. If nothing else, the whole mess should have taught us all better.

Just because she declines to go to a memorial for someone who she did not particularly care for, and when that memorial would be a press circus of more magnitude with her presence, does not in my eyes make her a second class person.

I think she showed some strength of character in accepting, even though I think that was the wrong decision. I think that as long as she makes Charles happy then that is all that matters.

I repeat, IN MY EYES, this has no bearing on her status in the Royal Family. For crying out loud, she will be the one sitting next to Charles if and when he does get crowned, so how is that a second class citizen? She is attempting at least to behave in with tact and grace, and is that not what you would want in a future consort?
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  #851  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:19 PM
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What I would really like to know, is why anyone would think a 10 year memorial was called for. It seemed like a waste of time from the beginning with upset over those who thought they had the right to an invitation. Next time kids, just stay at work and earn the money you are paid!
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  #852  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:19 PM
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Not only will I be remembering Diana this week, I will be remembering the deaths of Prince William of Gloucester and Lord Mountbatten as I do each and every year. May they all rest in peace.
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  #853  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:19 PM
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Finally, you and I agree on something. A private memorial if any memorial at all is what is called for!

Enough already with the concert!
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  #854  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Just because she declines to go to a memorial for someone who she did not particularly care for
I have seen no statement from Camilla to this effect, I don't think I have even seen a statement from a royal, unnamed, close friend source. How does anyone here know what either woman thought of the other at the end?
Quote:
Well, simply because I live in the USA does not mean that the etiquette that I know is bound only to the US. Please do not make such assumptions about me in the future
The etiquette here denotes that a woman of her social rank should attend this event with her husband.
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  #855  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
And, I do not think that her not going makes her a second class member of the royal family. Those with intelligence enough will simply say that she has tried to do the right thing.

And those who think otherwise and find that this makes her a second class member, well do you really care what they think? Any one with enough sense and anyone who likes Camilla will say that she is trying to behave with tact in a tough situation. Granted, I think that she should have done so from the get go, but I think that it was probable a situation that was really difficult for her, so who knows.

None the less, those who would find that this makes her a second class person, well those are the people who I would be inclined to wonder about. It does not make her a second class citizen in my eyes. And I am neither a Camilla or Diana supporter.

Well, simply because I live in the USA does not mean that the etiquette that I know is bound only to the US. Please do not make such assumptions about me in the future.

Having said that, in the US and all the other European countries that I have lived in for the majority of my adult life, etiquette would demand that the former mistress/current wife does not go to the memorial of the ex wife of ANYONE, especially given the history. Charles attendance would have been accepted as the parent of the shared children, and not as the ex husband in my view. And when seen in that regards, I can't see how a current wife would have a place, not should she have been put in the position to begin with.
I agree 100% with you. Not only in Europe or US, but also in South America etiquette demand the former mistress doesn't go to the Memorial Service. If people do the contrary, that's up with them but etiquette demands this. It's sad they forgot this basic notion of common sense. Camilla (Charles, William Harry and British monarchy) would be spared from all this "Camilla goes/Camilla doesn't go to the Memorial" story.
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  #856  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
It is rather funny to see how one part of the UK denigrates the other part. “This is symbolic of the way the Windsors have become - they've bowed to the press and the uneducated” (BeatrixFan, 2007). Are those, who regard the presence of Duchess of Cornwall in this memorial service as inappropriate, uneducated and morons?


Perhaps you missed TheTruth's posts about how a lot of Diana supporters are also appreciative of the Duchess and the way she's behaved since her marriage, and that it isn't fair to tar every Diana supporter with the brush of the "we hate Charles and Camilla" shrill extremists. Those extremists are the ones who've been screaming for Camilla to not attend, along with their friends at the Daily Mail and most of the rest of the tabloid press, and BeatrixFan is quite right that the Windsors have bowed to those spiteful rabble-rousers. That doesn't mean to say that everyone who thinks Camilla shouldn't attend the service are counted among the spiteful rabble-rousers.

Quote:
“Politicians in western democracies are ruled by short-term public opinion” (Elspeth, 2007). Does it make them less worthy than the Royal Families that repose on laurels of their ancestors?
I don't recall saying it did, if you read what I actually wrote without injecting spin into it. That politicians in western democracies are ruled by short-term public opinion is a fact. The existence of the monarch as a part of the government is supposed to be a counterbalance to that tendency. If BeatrixFan doesn't want a system where short-term public opinion rules, he shouldn't be hankering after a republic with an elected president, he should be wishing for the monarchy to grow a backbone.

I suggest, in an emotional discussion like this, that you try to understand a bit more carefully what people are actually saying rather than rushing to paint things in black and white and imply motives which are fairly obviously not there. Just at the moment, we're not in need of posts pouring fuel on the flames.
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  #857  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Dear Skydragon,

The “memorial service situation” has been planned with the approval of Prince Charles, who obviously underestimated the degree of controversy.
So he can be held responsible for the debacle and embarrassment of his spouse along with the loyalists and mass media.
There is no creditable source saying that Prince Charles was the one who makes the decisions. I think he is in the same position as Camilla is. If his sons want Camilla he will be happy to see their accpetance. If they don't want Camilla there he will not force them to change their decisions. Charles don't often lead family matters and this time it is not him to lead the service as well. Prince William and Prince Harry are adults to make their own decisions and their father gives them money and staff for supoorting. It doesn't mean he necessarily play any role in it. He would be always glad to see everythings being done properly and this service not his interest to make decisions about how things should be done.
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  #858  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:26 PM
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Erm, I think that Diana made quite clear her thoughts on the matter when she said "there were three of us in the marriage"

And I guess I am assuming. Diana took what Camilla thought was rightfully her place. I would not be too kindly disposed to her were it me.

Also, I think that there were some taped phone conversations or something of that ilk leaked to the media of conversations between C and C, and I believe Camilla was not too impressed with Diana.

Not to mention, would you be very happy with the woman who caused the man you love such headache? I wouldn't.

Perhaps Elspeth can set the record straight regardind leaked conversations between C and C.
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  #859  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by caspia1 View Post
This was always going to be polemic either way.
Damned if she did and damned if she did not.
In any event the news this afternoon that she has decided not to be present will allay any public repercussion. I think the decision is right.
In reality there should have been collusion between the relevant authorities very early on, before the date was set. This way Camilla could have had an engagement "organized" for her for that day and which "could not be broken".
She could then have apologized, etc etc. This would have avoided these weeks of debate.
Caspia1.
Yes! Why oh why couldn't she have been so lucky as Prince Andrew?! Look, he already had a trip to Malaysia scheduled for the day! Why couldn't they do this for Camilla, she who needed the excuse so much more? Why, Because as Polly indicated, there had to be a PR battle between Clarence House and Fleet Street: one side said Camilla is invited, she's going, while the other side said they would hiss and boo her until the "public" cried out in rage against her!
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  #860  
Old 08-26-2007, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
There are not enough of these morons able to work out how to vote! Loyal fans, they are a total disgrace, they more than Diana will be remembered for this debacle. Diana will be remembered for her legacy of division and hatred.

That is, of course, one of the great dangers of what these fanatics are doing. They're trying to own Diana's name in their crusade to punish Charles and Camilla for their own feelings of loss and revenge, and in the process it looks as though they're succeeding in sticking the label of petty divisiveness on Diana as a way to excuse their own petty divisiveness. But negative campaigning has always been successful, and this is no exception. And of course it sells newspapers.
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