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  #661  
Old 08-19-2007, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Actually, along with many women from that era, she didn't believe that divorce should be allowed to happen, whatever the reason, nothing to do with the family.

Then again she came from the days that also allowed hanging and whipping school children. She also believed, IMO, that a woman was faithful to her husband, no matter how many lady friends he may have had.

Well, it's been said by some of the royal commentators that Charles and Camilla wouldn't be getting married during the Queen Mother's lifetime because the Queen Mother felt so strongly about divorce and remarriage. On the other hand, it's a shame that at some point during the Queen Mother's lifetime, the Queen didn't cut the apron strings and tell Mummy that times had moved on even if she hadn't. The sort of morality that was perfectly happy for Edward VIII, when Prince of Wales, to have a married mistress who'd already been divorced and remarried (Thelma Furness) but flat-out rejected the notion of his having a wife who'd already been divorced and remarried is a very selective one. It's a shame Prince Charles was held hostage to that double standard for so long.
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  #662  
Old 08-19-2007, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Including her daughter and granddaughter? No sorry, I don't buy that one.
Most accounts have stated The Queen Mother was adamantly opposed to Charles and Camilla ever getting married. It wasn't that she didn't like Camilla personally.....she did and knew her well, but that she simply opposed divorce in the royal family. Even worse in her eyes, was Charles marrying someone who not only was a divorcee, but a factor in the failure of his marriage to Diana.

The Abdication was an unspeakable rift of duty in her mind. She blamed The Duke and Duchess of Windsor for imposing the throne on her husband and she never wavered from her view that it killed him. So, Camilla becoming HRH and eventually Queen Consort was not something she would ever accept.
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  #663  
Old 08-19-2007, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Most accounts have stated The Queen Mother was adamantly opposed to Charles and Camilla ever getting married. It wasn't that she didn't like Camilla personally.....she did and knew her well, but that she simply opposed divorce in the royal family. Even worse in her eyes, was Charles marrying someone who not only was a divorcee, but a factor in the failure of his marriage to Diana.
The claim was that the Queen Mother had stated that she didn't want divorced women in the family. I was merely pointing out that such a stance would exclude her daughter and her granddaughter and I don't believe she'd ever make such a statement.
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  #664  
Old 08-19-2007, 08:17 PM
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Supposedly, she made it very clear to The Queen her opposition and made her promise never to approve it. Of course, we have no idea if this is really true, but perhaps her forthcoming biography will shed more light on the subject.

In any case, it seems highly unlikely The Queen Mother, having been raised in a very different world of duty where divorce spelled social disgrace, was prepared to accept a remarriage to Camilla for Charles. It was too close to the bone for her, especially considering the Abdication and her bitterness towards Wallis and David.
  #665  
Old 08-19-2007, 08:26 PM
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You misunderstand me. I don't doubt that the Queen Mother didn't like divorce but I do doubt the claim made by surfrosa that the Queen Mother said she didn't want divorced women in the family when her daughter and granddaughter were both divorcees. It makes no sense that she'd say that.
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  #666  
Old 08-19-2007, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Most accounts have stated The Queen Mother was adamantly opposed to Charles and Camilla ever getting married. It wasn't that she didn't like Camilla personally.....she did and knew her well, but that she simply opposed divorce in the royal family. Even worse in her eyes, was Charles marrying someone who not only was a divorcee, but a factor in the failure of his marriage to Diana.

The Abdication was an unspeakable rift of duty in her mind. She blamed The Duke and Duchess of Windsor for imposing the throne on her husband and she never wavered from her view that it killed him. So, Camilla becoming HRH and eventually Queen Consort was not something she would ever accept.
Well, like I said - I think at some point over the last half century, the Queen should have summoned up the courage to explain to her mother that she wasn't God. OK, so she didn't like divorce and remarriage, but she thought the notion of a married and divorced mistress was fine just so long as the mistress knew her place. That's the sort of attitude that helped get Charles in the mess he got into in the first place.

And as Sam said - so she didn't want divorced people in her family - was she planning to legally disown Princess Margaret, Prince Andrew, Princess Anne (both divorced and remarried), and Prince Charles?
  #667  
Old 08-19-2007, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Supposedly, she made it very clear to The Queen her opposition and made her promise never to approve it. Of course, we have no idea if this is really true, but perhaps her forthcoming biography will shed more light on the subject.

In any case, it seems highly unlikely The Queen Mother, having been raised in a very different world of duty where divorce spelled social disgrace, was prepared to accept a remarriage to Camilla for Charles. It was too close to the bone for her, especially considering the Abdication and her bitterness towards Wallis and David.
It is great to hear there is a forcoming book. Thank you for all the information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
You misunderstand me. I don't doubt that the Queen Mother didn't like divorce but I do doubt the claim made by surfrosa that the Queen Mother said she didn't want divorced women in the family when her daughter and granddaughter were both divorcees. It makes no sense that she'd say that.
Let me restate my position. I Have heard the Queen Mother implied felt Divorced Woman should not be allowed to marry men in the family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
You can't have it baoth ways, they are either godlike, as you seem to want from them or they are human, with all the faults that may entail!
The Clintons are managing what, he may have had an affair or three, but she obviously loves him as she hasn't gone slumming around has she?
Do not want it both way. Am glad we all have faults. You are right about the Clintons. They have both moved on together. The reason I brought up the Clintons is for that very reason. It was to just show that we can move on. Camilla will move on as well. I think the only reason it keeps coming up (the affair) is because Diana can not speak for her self and others are tring to figure out what she MIGHT have said or felt. And I personally would like us humans to figure out what we are doing wrong and quit doing it over and over and over again. It disturbs me that I think people still think it is okay for a man to do what ever but a woman should not. We are all human.
  #668  
Old 08-20-2007, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfrosa View Post
It disturbs me that I think people still think it is okay for a man to do what ever but a woman should not. We are all human.
I don't believe that most people enter into an affair lightly, speaking to a friend who did, she said it just seemed to happen and they were both caught up in situation, not of their choosing. The friendship of 12 years twisted when he comforted her when she was upset. Both had been unhappily married to partners who misrepresented themselves during the courtship.

We are all human and as such, cannot control who we love. Some see marriage as a deed of ownership instead of a partnership. Some seem to think that when they get that ring on their finger they no longer have to practise the deceptions they did when they were courting, they no longer have to show an interest in the other persons hobbies. They are 'there', they have made it, mission accomplished, goal reached. Some then set about trying to change the person they married into the person they wanted.

Why is it so much worse for a woman to have an affair, because she is the one that can get pregnant and cause emotional damage to any children she may have. Take the ponderings over Harry's parentage, what a legacy to give to any child and no amount of DNA tests or reassurances can ever take that niggly little doubt from their minds.

Camilla has not made any statement on her feelings about this memorial, for all we know she told her stepsons she did not want to attend, she never got on with their mother and it would be best all around if she didn't go. For all we know they told her she was an important part of their lives and it would help them through the day.
  #669  
Old 08-20-2007, 06:10 AM
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My goodness, ten years ago we suffered through the endless reporting of Diana's fling with Dodi and now we have this discussion - may the 31st please approach, so it can be over and done with?
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  #670  
Old 08-20-2007, 01:00 PM
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Even if she had a "diplomatic illness", it would still look like she was backing out due to what happened.

There is a difference between being the mistress of, and then an HRH married into the Royal Family of, The Prince of Wales.

Whether you like it or not...that elevation means you have to do things and go places whether or not you want to or feel comfortable doing it.

Camilla must have realized that once she married Charles she was marrying into the institution and everything that came with it and could not pick and choose what to attend.

I totally feel for her and would not want to be in her shoes...but she is going ...and there is nothing anyone can say or do.

All we can hope, whether you like her or not, whether you like Charles or Diana, or not, is that the day goes smooth.

These two young men want to do this for their mother....so let us let them have their way this one day.

As Queen Victoria once told her one of her daughters...just close your eyes and think of England.... meaning, stiff upper lip and do the job you have to do now that you are an HRH.

Life is vastly different once you are part of the guilded group, huh? ;-)
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  #671  
Old 08-20-2007, 08:29 PM
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We don't know how Diana really felt about Camilla as a person. Although there was no question she expressed bitterness, it may have been more from the position that someone other than herself had won her husband's heart and soul in a way she never could. At the end of the day, Diana and Charles were unsuited for each other and had nothing in common.

Supposedly, Diana expressed the view after the divorce to close friends that if Camilla made Charles happy and content, that was OK with her and he should eventually "make an honest woman" of her. So, her true feelings may have been more favorable than previously portrayed.

Few things in life are black or white. Diana is no longer here, everyone has to get on with their lives and her sons have invited Camilla to attend the service in memory of The Princess.
  #672  
Old 08-20-2007, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
You misunderstand me. I don't doubt that the Queen Mother didn't like divorce but I do doubt the claim made by surfrosa that the Queen Mother said she didn't want divorced women in the family when her daughter and granddaughter were both divorcees. It makes no sense that she'd say that.
I agree with that notion. I think The Queen Mother's position was that divorce for members of the royal family weakened their stability in the eyes of the public. To her, the monarchy must come first and happiness second.
  #673  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:33 PM
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Apparently Paul Burrell has his word to say on this matter :

The Royalist - Burrell Slams Diana Memorial Guest List
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  #674  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:38 PM
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Well today is the 21 of August in the dreaded month of AB. Ab, Hebrew readers and speakers among us was the Jewish name for a month that is more or less our August. In it all the disasters of the people of Israel fell on them during that month, supposedly. Hence the dreaded month of AB. A part of the disasters is this memorial service to Diana. Not that a memorial service per se is a bad idea but all the negative stuff that has come up has caused it to be something decidedly not so good. But in ten days or so the thing will be over and people can go back to obsessing about something else. I hope. Cheers.
  #675  
Old 08-22-2007, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chrissy57 View Post
Could you tell me what television stations have been running shows as I haven't come across any.

Which print media, besides the WW and NI, have anything as again I have come across none at all.

Even my couple of rapid Diana fans have been saying how they expected some coverage in the lead-up to the 10th anniversary and have been very disappointed that this far out there has been nothing besides the couple of things in the WW and NI.

Which states are doing things that aren't being done here in Sydney?

I wonder why some parts of the country are making an acknowledgement but we aren't.
Again, sorry for the big delay in reply. What is currently on tv (free and cable) -

Diana - The Night She Died
Diana's Legacy
The Curse of Diana's dresses
Diana - The true story
Diana - Story of a Princess (parts 1 - 4)
Charles and Camilla: whatever love means.

To my mind, it's a lot for one month!

The local press (Herald Sun) is running a perpetual visual accolade to the late Princess on its website and umpteen articles are appearing in magazines and newspapers about Diana.

(I'm having a free day today in this long, drawn-out jury duty case).

Best,

Polly
  #676  
Old 08-22-2007, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
My goodness, ten years ago we suffered through the endless reporting of Diana's fling with Dodi and now we have this discussion - may the 31st please approach, so it can be over and done with?
Unfortunately the 31st comes once a year. Perhaps calendar reform is in order. We could add a month to another day and take the 31st of August away.
  #677  
Old 08-22-2007, 05:15 AM
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I don't see there being any more anniversary memorial services, hopefully this will be it. For most of us, the 31st of August can go back to being the last day of August.
  #678  
Old 08-22-2007, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I don't see there being any more anniversary memorial services, hopefully this will be it. For most of us, the 31st of August can go back to being the last day of August.
Well yes, it's a fact that people would bring less and less flowers each year in front of KP or Althorp. But as far as I know, nobody brings constantly flowers on the crypt of Marilyn Monroe. Only a few fans goes there when it's her anniversary or the day of her death. It doesn't means we forget her anyway. We shouldn't be sad of that phenomenom, it's normal. IMO, I prefer to remind her a little every day than waiting her death anniversary to bring flowers.
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  #679  
Old 08-22-2007, 08:25 AM
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DNA tests have convicted criminals and released unjustly incarcerated men besides being a well respected means of settling paternity suits in several coiuntries so their reliability is pretty taken for granted by the public. If the public did not have faith in their results, then they would not be relied upon so much by the courts these days.

I agree with skydragon that in the past a wife's affair caused more complications than a husband's affair because it put the paternity of the woman's children in doubt but with the DNA technology available to us, there is no need for the presence of a mere affair by the Princess of Wales to cast doubt on the parentage of either of her children.

I did object to Diana pleading for sympathy with the public and pointing the finger at Charles and Camilla's affair as the cause of her pain when she herself had affairs and relationships with men that caused their wives such pain. It illustrated a lack of deeper understanding in that she appears to have only understood the pain of an affair as it was done to her and not what painful effect her affairs were doing to other people.

As a result she created great public anger towards Charles and Camilla whereas the wives and the children of the men she was with got no sympathy or even understanding in the public eye and one or two of them were accused of only trying to cause Diana problems.

I think this is really cruel and unfair.
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  #680  
Old 08-22-2007, 02:54 PM
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I´m just coming back from a visit in the UK. I talked to some people there about the memorial service, and the result was that they are less excited , interested or touched of this event than i imagined, although the people i asked are supporters of the Monarchy.
The presence of Camilla at the memorial service isn´t a problem for most of them.
(´The Royal family is there, so Camilla is there. ´ William and Harry invited her, so she will be there.´ After ten years all discussion about Diana/ Camilla should rest forever.´)

In bookshops, cardshops, souveniershop etc. are lots of Diana-books, -mugs, -posters, many more things than i saw when i was in the UK in April this year. But i´ve heard that these things are more stuff only for tourists.

I know, i only talked to some people ( not enough for a poll) and maybe Skydragon, BeatrixFan, Elspeth or other members from the UK will correct me.
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