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  #521  
Old 08-14-2007, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Why don't you write to Clarence House and tell them so? I'm sure we'd all be really interested in the response when you receive it.
I am sure it would be a very politely worded but brief response to the effect of, "We are sorry you feel this way, however, we must decline to engage in the speculations and opinions of uninformed commentary and tabloid press. We, furthermore, respect the wishes of TRH the Prince William and the Prince Harry that this memorial service is to be strictly private event for the purpose of remembering the late Diana, Princess of Wales. Whom TRH invite to the service is a private matter."
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  #522  
Old 08-14-2007, 03:40 PM
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i think... camilla shouldnt attend... Diana didnt like her so camilla shouldnt go.
memorial services are made to honour the deads not the alives. so diana's preferences should be respcted, not willam&harry/charles/camilla/whoever preferences.
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  #523  
Old 08-14-2007, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by milla Ca View Post
And to all who canīt stop talking about sin and evil adultary and being criminal of doing that...please start to read some chapters of the New Testament, you will find there the words love, forgiveness, new beginning...
no dear, the gospel is not youre saying. new beggining is when:
youre sorry for your sins
promiss to dont do them again
try to repair the damage you caused

are you sure charles and camilla are sorry for their adultery? forgiveness had conditions.

diana did many wrong things but this is her memorial and people who caused her such pain shouldnt be allowed to attend.

Quote:
And if you like to talk about Diana as an icon, maybe you should remember these words sometimes...
she did much more for the poor and sick than camilla ever did. and as you like to mention the gospel... let me tell you that your reward is based on your works and diana did very good actions whil she was still alive
  #524  
Old 08-14-2007, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Aquarela View Post
no dear, the gospel is not youre saying. new beggining is when:
youre sorry for your sins
promiss to dont do them again
try to repair the damage you caused

are you sure charles and camilla are sorry for their adultery? forgiveness had conditions.

diana did many wrong things but this is her memorial and people who caused her such pain shouldnt be allowed to attend.

she did much more for the poor and sick than camilla ever did. and as you like to mention the gospel... let me tell you that your reward is based on your works and diana did very good actions whil she was still alive
Sorry, but iīm sure we donīt talk about the same things.
Already the sound of your post tells me that you understand the words from the New Testament i mentioned in a very different way.
Maybe thatīs one important reason we canīt come close when we discuss this topic.
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  #525  
Old 08-14-2007, 04:17 PM
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She should go, is no problem at all.
  #526  
Old 08-14-2007, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarela View Post
no dear, the gospel is not youre saying. new beggining is when:
youre sorry for your sins
promiss to dont do them again
try to repair the damage you caused

are you sure charles and camilla are sorry for their adultery? forgiveness had conditions.

diana did many wrong things but this is her memorial and people who caused her such pain shouldnt be allowed to attend.

she did much more for the poor and sick than camilla ever did. and as you like to mention the gospel... let me tell you that your reward is based on your works and diana did very good actions whil she was still alive
And Charles and Camilla have spoken to you personally and told you they do not feel at all sorry for what happened?

By your reasoning, no one would be able to go to the memorial. Alot of people besides Camilla caused her pain over the years. It was reported her son William was fighting with her the day she died. That would have caused her pain, wouldn't it? By your reasoning, he shouldn't go either.

Diana has done a lot of charitiy work but she was married to Charles for a longer time then Camilla has been. When Camilla has been married that long, I am sure she will have done a lot of charity work also.

If your reward is based on your actions while your alive, Diana did some very good works she also did some things that were harmful. IMO the good and the harm just cancel each other out.
  #527  
Old 08-14-2007, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
forgiveness had conditions.
Only one. That you truly repent. And unless you have a Soul Monitor 3000, you'll never know that. As a Christian, which you say you are, you should also be aware of not judging your fellow sinner and taking a holier than thou attitude for that is directly in contradiction with the teachings of the Gospel. Amen.
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  #528  
Old 08-14-2007, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Only one. That you truly repent. And unless you have a Soul Monitor 3000, you'll never know that. As a Christian, which you say you are, you should also be aware of not judging your fellow sinner and taking a holier than thou attitude for that is directly in contradiction with the teachings of the Gospel. Amen.
I've enjoyed your prayer Priest BeatrixFan . In this case, forgivness and understanding should be recommended to the Diana fans who are still living in the past. Diana had go on with her life, she was divorced, end of the story. Camilla is not a murderer, she didn't rob a bank or whatever. She no evil, Diana no angel, they are just 2 persons like you and me.
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  #529  
Old 08-14-2007, 05:52 PM
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Well, I didn't mean everyone should start singing hymns and praising Charles and Camilla, I just don't like hypocrisy and that's what I see when people start saying, "As a Christian, I believe that forgiveness can only be given under certain guidelines" and then go on to directly contradict those guidelines and make the basis of those conditions completely unbiblical.
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  #530  
Old 08-14-2007, 06:03 PM
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"Fair" seems to be the right word to respect when talking about Diana and Camilla. Whatever religions, principles, guidelines you follow, you must consider the good and the bad of people.
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  #531  
Old 08-14-2007, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarela View Post
no dear, the gospel is not youre saying. new beggining is when:
youre sorry for your sins
promiss to dont do them again
try to repair the damage you caused

are you sure charles and camilla are sorry for their adultery? forgiveness had conditions.

diana did many wrong things but this is her memorial and people who caused her such pain shouldnt be allowed to attend.

she did much more for the poor and sick than camilla ever did. and as you like to mention the gospel... let me tell you that your reward is based on your works and diana did very good actions whil she was still alive

Your last statement shows me that you are a RC.

Why?

Because as Anglicans we beleive that the only way to Heaven is through the Grace of God - not works or anything else - that was one of the reasons for the Reformation - the teachings of the RC church that you could work and/or buy your way to heaven. Martin Luther and the other reformists really pointed out that the idea of works wasn't the way to Heaven but Grace of God only. The Bible clearly says that it is through Grace alone - try Ephesians Chapter 2 Verses 1 - 10.

As for Diana doing good works - sure - but she was also an adulterer.

I wonder if she actually sought forgiveness for her sin of adultery! We, of course will never know as that would be between her and God alone.

We know that Charles and Camilla have publicly asked for this forgiveness - they did so at their blessing of their marriage.

True repentance however is within the heart and for any of these people their is only one entity who truly knows if they are sorry - and that is God who will be the ultimate judge on their repentance and their right to join Him in Heaven based on His Grace regardless of other things done in their lifetime.
  #532  
Old 08-14-2007, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Aquarela View Post
are you sure charles and camilla are sorry for their adultery? forgiveness had conditions.
No one here can say what is in the heart and minds of any of these principal players, neither of Charles nor Camilla, and not of Diana. Whether or not they feel sorry for it is irrelevant for us. Whatever they feel about what happened in the past, this is between them. If they can wake up each day and go on with their lives, as far as we are concerned, it is not for us to say they do or do not feel sorry enough or paid enough price for the mistakes of the past.
Our judgements about how much pain they feel and whether or not it is enough pain to "pay" for their mistakes, for their "crimes of the heart" so to speak, are not helpful to anyone, least of all to the principal figures.
  #533  
Old 08-14-2007, 06:53 PM
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Charles was Diana's husband for 11 years (1981-1992) and she died ! Of course the question of guilt has past his mind and I'm sure Camilla's too. I can't believe that some people think Charles and Camilla have hearts made of stone. Her death was the worst thing that could happened to them. His ex wife, who suffered of his affair with is actual wife has died. I don't even dare to imagine how they felt at this moment ...
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  #534  
Old 08-14-2007, 07:27 PM
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in order to truly forgive someone you must possess a lot of humility and there are very few people in this world that possess the vast amounts of humility for true forgiveness. if one's admission to heaven were based solely on their good works (and i'm sure we've all done something good in our lives) then we'd all be certain to get into heaven. since we don't know what camilla thinks, perhaps she has privately asked god to forgive her for her sins and asked diana's forgiveness. i would think that diana, in heaven above, would certainly give that forgiveness now. now, all that aside, i don't believe that diana left instructions as to a guest list for her memorial service so that decision has been left to others.
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  #535  
Old 08-14-2007, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess View Post
in order to truly forgive someone you must possess a lot of humility and there are very few people in this world that possess the vast amounts of humility for true forgiveness. if one's admission to heaven were based solely on their good works (and i'm sure we've all done something good in our lives) then we'd all be certain to get into heaven. since we don't know what camilla thinks, perhaps she has privately asked god to forgive her for her sins and asked diana's forgiveness. i would think that diana, in heaven above, would certainly give that forgiveness now. now, all that aside, i don't believe that diana left instructions as to a guest list for her memorial service so that decision has been left to others.
I couldn't more agree with you . Everybody can do wonderful things. What makes all the difference is if you choose to make the effort or not.
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  #536  
Old 08-14-2007, 08:15 PM
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very true and thank you. it's all about making a choice isn't it?
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  #537  
Old 08-14-2007, 08:46 PM
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Well, now, let's look at history. When Diana married Prince Charles, Camilla was there. Diana knew what was going on then and even noted her presence at the wedding. It bothered her, but she went on and so did Camilla (she was a subject of the monarchy). When Diana died, Sophie did not attend the funeral procession (by Buckingham Palace) only because she resembled the beloved Princess. I do not know if Camilla was present unofficially, but it definitely would've been in bad taste for her to show up then. I am sure that she could've felt sorry for Diana's misfortune, however that was Camilla's outrageous fortune. (Just stating an obvious fact here). Now that Camilla is married to the Prince, does that make everything go away from the past? If Princes' William and Harry have found forgiveness in their heart and desire her to be a part then I can accept seeing her attend Diana's memorial service. In my heart of hearts I wish Diana had lived and this was not an issue. Camilla is probably a very nice person in her own right. Her sin is between her and the Lord and according to spoken wedding vows, she and Charles stated that they had asked for forgiveness and repented of their sin. We must forgive and concentrate on our memorial to Diana. As a member of the Royal Family, she should pay tribute to Diana for the good things she did in life. Camilla will be the better for it, but I don't believe that she will ever capture the hearts as Princess Diana did. This has been difficult to express because my heart has always been (and always will be) with Princess Diana!
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  #538  
Old 08-14-2007, 08:49 PM
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But the problem is, we're in no position to forgive just as we're in no position to judge.
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  #539  
Old 08-15-2007, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ClassicRoyal View Post
When Diana died, Sophie did not attend the funeral procession (by Buckingham Palace) only because she resembled the beloved Princess.
I would be very interested to know the source which gives genuine proof for this statement.
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  #540  
Old 08-15-2007, 12:49 AM
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It was one of the rumours flying around at the time of the funeral. Since Edward and Sophie weren't engaged at the time, it might just have been thought that her presence at the funeral would have been distracting.
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