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  #441  
Old 08-10-2007, 04:35 PM
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And then there are the fans who think that she would have been still angry at Charles and Camilla 11 years after the divorce.
Even though they didn't know her? It's like me saying Stalin would support a restoration of the Monarchy in Russia. I didn't know him and to assign beliefs to a corpse really is a cheap shot as justifying what is essentially - old crap.
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  #442  
Old 08-10-2007, 04:44 PM
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Well thats just how some people feel whether you understand it or not.
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  #443  
Old 08-10-2007, 04:46 PM
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Right, explain this to me because I really would like to know. You never knew Diana, you never met Diana, you never spoke to Diana, you never recieved a tell-all letter from Diana, you never recieved divine messages from Diana post-death, you never became a confidant to Diana and you never once were told by Diana how she would feel about events she wouldn't be on earth to see. And yet you know what she'd be thinking today. How?
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  #444  
Old 08-10-2007, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Right, explain this to me because I really would like to know. You never knew Diana, you never met Diana, you never spoke to Diana, you never recieved a tell-all letter from Diana, you never recieved divine messages from Diana post-death, you never became a confidant to Diana and you never once were told by Diana how she would feel about events she wouldn't be on earth to see. And yet you know what she'd be thinking today. How?
I think what sirhon11234 was trying to say is that fans 'imagine' what their idol would do, like, think, etc. Diana's fans in particular choose to think if Diana would have go forward with her life of if she would have still be obsessed by Camilla. It's like guessing if Diana prefered chocolate or strawberry candies. The 'choice' you make IMO depends on what perception you have of Diana.
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  #445  
Old 08-10-2007, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Right, explain this to me because I really would like to know. You never knew Diana, you never met Diana, you never spoke to Diana, you never recieved a tell-all letter from Diana, you never recieved divine messages from Diana post-death, you never became a confidant to Diana and you never once were told by Diana how she would feel about events she wouldn't be on earth to see. And yet you know what she'd be thinking today. How?
What are you posting about, in my comment I didn't give my personal opinion on how she would feel about events that are happening today or how she would feel about Charles and Camilla today. No where in my comment did i give my personal opinion on whether she would still be angry at Charles or Camilla or would she have simply moved on with her life. I only posted about other posters opinions about how she would feel today if she was alive..
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  #446  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:00 PM
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They imagine and then present that imagination as fact. And then they use that as a base to peddle hate and egg-throwing which is truly dim-witted and I fail to see how anyone can say that's an acceptable way to form an opinion.
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  #447  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:01 PM
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I only posted about other posters opinions about how she would feel today if she was alive.
And I responded to that because you seem to believe that's an acceptable way to reach an opinion which it quite clearly isn't.
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  #448  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TheTruth View Post
Diana's fans in particular choose to think if Diana would have go forward with her life of if she would have still be obsessed by Camilla. It's like guessing if Diana prefered chocolate or strawberry candies. The 'choice' you make IMO depends on what perception you have of Diana.
Not a very forgiving, kind or friendly perception. Diana was never, IMO, obsessed with Camilla, she used Charles' confession and her interview as a way of hitting at Charles.

The picture most of her 'fans' on here and in the press are painting, is a nasty, vindictive woman, who had many lovers of her own and would have been unwilling to move on. The very person whose memory they are trying to preserve, destroyed once again.
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  #449  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:19 PM
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And I responded to that because you seem to believe that's an acceptable way to reach an opinion which it quite clearly isn't
The purpose of my comment was to list two opinions of posters on how Diana would feel today if she was alive. I didn't say that I agreed with either opinions. And just becuase you have your own way of reaching an opinion it doesen't mean your way is right and mine is wrong we all have different ways of reaching an opinion.
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  #450  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
They imagine and then present that imagination as fact. And then they use that as a base to peddle hate and egg-throwing which is truly dim-witted and I fail to see how anyone can say that's an acceptable way to form an opinion.
Beatrixfan, Do you personally know Camilla and Charles, do you speak to them, have you received a tell all letter from them detailing their opinions and feelings? No? you seem to have no trouble assigning opinions/thoughts/motives which you approve of to Camilla and Charles because you like/admire them. Why do you not understand when the Diana fans do the same thing? It's speculation on both sides part. I think tolerance for each others opinions and beliefs is a cornerstone of civilization. I dont believe that there is any peddling of hate or egg throwing going on here. Most seem to be able to discuss these matters in a civilized tone dont you think?
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  #451  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:24 PM
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Anyways I chose the example of the affair, emotional pain, and the rottwiler comment to illustrate what Diana remembers of Camilla and what she thought of her. This is not someone she'd want at her memorial.

If your husband had an affair, and you hated this woman enough to call her any names, whether at your best or worst, you blamed this woman for your marriage break up whether true or not, and this woman later married your husband, would you want her at your memorial service standing next to your children?

I don't think Diana would have. Thats all I am saying.
but we have to remember is that diana is dead, how she feels, what she thinks and taking her feelings into consideration is no longer important. what's important is her children and how they choose to remember her. a lot of people have indicated that it was her children that knew her best but let's be honest...how can 2 children that young really know her best. i think the only people that knew her best would be her brother and sisters. her children saw the best of her yes (and they're choosing to celebrate that part of her), but they weren't old enough to understand the torment or pain. yes they saw things happen between their parents but diana confided far too much in william when he was far too young to be anyone's confidante.
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  #452  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:26 PM
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o you personally know Camilla and Charles, do you speak to them, have you received a tell all letter from them detailing their opinions and feelings? No? you seem to have no trouble assigning opinions/thoughts/motives which you approve of to Camilla and Charles because you like/admire them.
They're alive, it's quite different.
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  #453  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:32 PM
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Let's turn the heat down, please. Of course none of us knew Diana, none of us know Charles and Camilla, and as ysbel so very wisely said the other day, none of us own Diana's memory. So this tit-for-tat posting is fairly useless as well as being annoying.

Thank you.

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  #454  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
They're alive, it's quite different.
True but you still don't live around them and we didn't live around Diana neither so all we think, all we express in opinions etc. are deducted by photos, books, informations (reliable or not) and of course what we personaly feel.

Edit : sorry Elspeth, delete it if you want
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  #455  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:44 PM
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If your husband had an affair, and you hated this woman enough to call her any names, whether at your best or worst, you blamed this woman for your marriage break up whether true or not, and this woman later married your husband, would you want her at your memorial service standing next to your children?

I don't think Diana would have. Thats all I am saying.
Well it depends on whether I still hated my ex-husband and the other woman. If I had found a life outside of my first husband and then at my deathbed if someone told me my husband and his second wife would be at my memorial it wouldn't bother me so much. But if I hadn't come to terms with the affair or if I hadn't made something of my own life and somebody told me that my ex and his second wife would be there, it would bother me a lot.

But regardless, if at any time in my life I hated someone enough to call them nasty names, I sure as hell wouldn't want that aspect of myself remembered at my memorial. It would be too embarassing.
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  #456  
Old 08-10-2007, 06:02 PM
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Well it depends on whether I still hated my ex-husband and the other woman. If I had found a life outside of my first husband and then at my deathbed if someone told me my husband and his second wife would be at my memorial it wouldn't bother me so much. But if I hadn't come to terms with the affair or if I hadn't made something of my own life and somebody told me that my ex and his second wife would be there, it would bother me a lot.

But regardless, if at any time in my life I hated someone enough to call them nasty names, I sure as hell wouldn't want that aspect of myself remembered at my memorial. It would be too embarassing.
That's why it's such a tough decision. How would have Diana been like today? It's a question we can't answer and never be able to. But we have to think that in the worst situation which would be that Diana didn't get on and still feels anger for Camilla, the best thing for Camilla would be to not attend. Although if Diana had made a new life and didn't care about her ex-husband and his wife then coming or not to the memorial doesn't matter.
Considering both situations, especially the worst, Camilla shouldn't go. But again that's my humble opinion.
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  #457  
Old 08-10-2007, 06:19 PM
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If Camilla doesn't go, I think Prince Charles probably will have some difficulties to deal with the occasion. Prince Charles has to be there,doesn't he? Some Diana fans do not want him there, but Prince William and Harry want their father to remeber their mother together. And they invited Camilla because they know Prince Charles needs her to be with him. The same reason why Camilla was finally invited to Queen Mother's funeral because the Queen knew Charles was very upset and he needed Camilla to be with him even they cannot sit together at that time.

It is up to the princes to decide whom they want to invite. I think Camilla have talked with them and make the decision with Charles together. Camilla is a calmer for Prince Charles in any situation and William and Harry want a calm father rather than a very upsetting father.
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  #458  
Old 08-10-2007, 06:21 PM
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Not a very forgiving, kind or friendly perception. Diana was never, IMO, obsessed with Camilla, she used Charles' confession and her interview as a way of hitting at Charles.

The picture most of her 'fans' on here and in the press are painting, is a nasty, vindictive woman, who had many lovers of her own and would have been unwilling to move on. The very person whose memory they are trying to preserve, destroyed once again.
It has a touch of: "Jews killed Jesus - so Jesus asks us to act against Jews..." - sorry, this is a witch hunt going on without anyone actively involved wanting it! IMHO Diana wouldn't have wanted anyone to spoil this memorial for her sons.
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  #459  
Old 08-10-2007, 06:26 PM
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If Camilla doesn't go, I think Prince Charles probably will have some difficulties to deal with the occasion. Prince Charles has to be there,doesn't he? Some Diana fans do not want him there, but Prince William and Harry want their father to remeber their mother together. And they invited Camilla because they know Prince Charles needs her to be with him. The same reason why Camilla was finally invited to Queen Mother's funeral because the Queen knew Charles was very upset and he needed Camilla to be with him even they cannot sit together at that time.

It is up to the princes to decide whom they want to invite. I think Camilla have talked with them and make the decision with Charles together. Camilla is a calmer for Prince Charles in any situation and William and Harry want a calm father rather than a very upsetting father.
Of course, it's totally understandable. But if Charles is upset, it's not to his wife, the person who made Diana suffer so much to support him. It's a different situation than the Queen Mother's funeral. It's to William and Harry to help him and I'm sure just like you that they will do the right thing. The idea of Camilla helping Charles to go through Diana's memorial sounds so odd to me .
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  #460  
Old 08-10-2007, 06:43 PM
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That's why it's such a tough decision. How would have Diana been like today? It's a question we can't answer and never be able to. But we have to think that in the worst situation which would be that Diana didn't get on and still feels anger for Camilla, the best thing for Camilla would be to not attend. Although if Diana had made a new life and didn't care about her ex-husband and his wife then coming or not to the memorial doesn't matter.
Considering both situations, especially the worst, Camilla shouldn't go. But again that's my humble opinion.
You've forgotten a third scenario, TheTruth.

What would be the best scenario for William and Harry to stage a memorial for their mother and give them strength and courage to carry on their parent's legacy and fulfill the awesome responsibilities that are in their future; to William as the future King of William and to Harry who will always be one of the top ranking members of the Royal Family - a future that includes the great legacy that their mother built for them but that also includes Camilla as their father's wife and eventual consort in his sacred royal kingship?

Which picture of their mother do you think they would want to memorialize - what would give them more strength to carry on? A picture of a forgiving wiser Diana who only wanted her sons to be human and be happy and to make the world a better place by touching people with her unique humanness? Or the lonely hurt Diana who became so obsessed that Camilla had what she didn't have that she went public with the affair and hurt herself and others (including her children)

Which Diana do you think William and Harry want to remember? Which image of Diana will make it easier for them to develop in their royal roles with Charles and Camilla as their parents?

So which Diana do you think William and Harry will choose to remember and hold up to the world as an example of what type of person their mother was like?

Someone said that history is written by the winners; I think history is written by the survivors and in this story William and Harry are the survivors, not Diana, not even Charles and Camilla. They are going to have to live with their mother's legacy for a long time. If they can craft a legacy that makes their destiny a bit easier and lighter to carry, then, I think it is a good thing.
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