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  #281  
Old 08-07-2007, 01:52 AM
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I believe that, for her own sense of dignity and self-respect,Camilla should not attend Diana's memorial service. I also believe that Charles and his courtiers are wrong to insist that she does. Camilla does not deserve the flak which will result.

Perhaps others of you have read what I've read,ie. that Harry, despite what he says on television, really has acute, actual, and serious problems with Camilla's supplanting his mother. I don't know whether or not this is true, but it would be understandable: he was such a young boy when his mother died, after all.

All in all, these ramifications, whether actual or imagined, add to my belief that this Hollywood-inspired memorial service is a bound to be a PR disaster for the royal family.

William, who's now a young man and no longer a boy (as I've mentioned elsewhere, his grandmother became Queen at much the same age) should have known better. I, therefore, repose no confidence in his discernment when he becomes King.
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  #282  
Old 08-07-2007, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
I believe that, for her own sense of dignity and self-respect,Camilla should not attend Diana's memorial service. I also believe that Charles and his courtiers are wrong to insist that she does. Camilla does not deserve the flak which will result.
It is not Prince Charles or his courtiers who have organized or decide on this. It were the two sons who requested their stepmother to attend. I assume after deliberate reviewing and consulting The Queen.

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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
Perhaps others of you have read what I've read,ie. that Harry, despite what he says on television, really has acute, actual, and serious problems with Camilla's supplanting his mother. I don't know whether or not this is true, but it would be understandable: he was such a young boy when his mother died, after all.
Against the unsourced assumptions stands the Prince's very own and convincing words that he and his brother love the Duchess 'to bits'. This is one and only factual and checkable proof. Also all events in which both the sons and the Duchess did attend, for an example the Trooping the Colour, or the two passing-out parades at Sandhurst, or the polo-matches, showed a quite nice interaction between the two Princes and the Duchess.

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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
All in all, these ramifications, whether actual or imagined, add to my belief that this Hollywood-inspired memorial service is a bound to be a PR disaster for the royal family.
Hollywood inspired? Last week Queen Fabiola of the Belgians, the Queen Dowager, did attend a Mass in honour of her beloved spouse King Baudouin who died 10 years ago as well. After this the old Queen visited the royal crypt to lay flowers at his tomb and to say prayers. I don't see so much Hollywood in that. In essence the Princes do the same as Queen Fabiola did.
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  #283  
Old 08-07-2007, 03:42 AM
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I think everything has gone badly not the way the Princes had planned it.

Their initial plan was to remember their mother, now it has turn into a curcus, with tabloids trying to sell more by bashing Camilla.
B inviting one of the Al-Fayed clan, I think they tried to bring peace among the parties, to show that they had gone ahead with their lives.

On another note, I think it was asked before, is it going to be a more or less private event (no broadcasting, no video released to the press)? I wish it was so, because it will be so much easier for all of them, and especially Camilla, to go through it.
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  #284  
Old 08-07-2007, 04:07 AM
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It is not Prince Charles or his courtiers who have organized or decide on this.
I'm sure Clarence House has maintained an expected input though, Henri M. Being, afterall, the advisory and PA source to the Wales camp.
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  #285  
Old 08-07-2007, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Henri M. View Post
I

Hollywood inspired? Last week Queen Fabiola of the Belgians, the Queen Dowager, did attend a Mass in honour of her beloved spouse King Baudouin who died 10 years ago as well. After this the old Queen visited the royal crypt to lay flowers at his tomb and to say prayers. I don't see so much Hollywood in that. In essence the Princes do the same as Queen Fabiola did.
Humbly, and with all due respect, Henri M, Belgium is not England, with a royal family commanding an international audience, duties, and obligations. One can honour Queen Fabiola for her devotion while asking, simultaneously, if there were multi-continent viewers and participants in her obvious and genuine sorrow.

To my best knowledge, such a public spectacle has never before happened in the UK for any of its kings and queens, and Diana wasn't even a monarch, as Baudouin was. The similarities are not culturally comparable in my opinion.
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  #286  
Old 08-07-2007, 05:28 AM
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William and Harry invited Camilla then she should go. They're adults now and are 'reclaiming' their mother away from the Dianaites. The memorial will be at the Guards Chapel which is 'their' church as it's the Blues and Royals chapel and they're serving officers. ( The Dianaites were screaming for St Pauls or Westminister Abbey) The Guards Chapel is quite small, invited guests only (no weaping and wailing from the Dianaites) So it's the people who actually knew her rather than those that just knew her as a photo. The Guards Chapel in inside the Wellington Barracks that then restricts the public and media's access to the people attending, again to keep to the dignity of the whole thing. There's no areas for the shrines, the Dianaites are complaining that they'll have to make do with the gates at Kensington Palace again. The minister officiating is one that William and Harry have a relationship with not just some high ranking clergyman that the Dianaites consider should have been asked. This is their memorial and they will do it their way, Diana was their mother and they have the right to do what they want and invite whomever they choose. The views and desires of the 'people looking in' are of no importance or consequence.

Don't underestimate, the thought and control that will go into making this memorial as dignified as possible. I would be very surprised if it's broadcast as that will well and truly take away from the dignity of the memorial. The concert was broadcast as the rights to it were sold as it was a fund raising event, the memorial isn't.
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  #287  
Old 08-07-2007, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Henri M. View Post
Only Prince Harry has joined the Blues and Royals I thought.
Prince William has not yet enrolled into a certain regiment.

But I mean: was this concrete building special to Diana? I would even consider the parish church in Althorp as a better choice!
The Prince of Wales - Prince William joins the Household Cavalry (Blues and Royals)

It is special to the people that matter most.... her sons

Quote:
I also believe that Charles and his courtiers are wrong to insist that she does.
It is possible that Camilla wants to go and not just as the stepmother of William and Harry or the wife of Prince Charles
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  #288  
Old 08-07-2007, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
I believe that, for her own sense of dignity and self-respect,Camilla should not attend Diana's memorial service. I also believe that Charles and his courtiers are wrong to insist that she does. Camilla does not deserve the flak which will result.
Camilla is a tough cookie, though. She'll be fine, I know she will. Even if Charles and the CH advisors are putting pressure on her to go to avoid accusations of guilt or whatever, I have no doubt Camilla is more than capable of holding her own against them. I'm sure she has her own reasons for agreeing to go, otherwise she would put up more resistance. While she would no doubt rather do something else on that day, I'm sure that on some level, she must know that it is not about her, but only about being a supportive wife and stepmother.
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  #289  
Old 08-07-2007, 09:08 AM
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I do know children from the first marriage who have more reasons to resent their step-parents than Harry does and they get along with their stepparents just fine so I wouldn't say that just because its understandable that Harry would resent Camilla, that Harry actually does resent Camilla. The reactions that children have towards the hurt of divorce don't always make sense.

But my main reason for thinking that Harry doesn't have a problem with Camilla is that he is not good at hiding his feeling. Last year he physically attacked the co-author of another tell-all book about Charles and reportedly screamed, Leave my father alone while he hit on the guy. It was totally spontaneous (his group didn't know the author would be there) and undignified. I don't think Charles put him up to that silly act of defense. It was very embarassing for both Harry and Charles and started the rounds of Harry attacking reporters which isn't good for his reputation or the monarchy.

So if Harry has a problem with Camilla, I don't think with the way he wears his heart on his sleeve that he can hide it.

I do share your concerns about William, Polly; he seems diffident in his role as future King but I hold out hope that he is still young and that there will be many more years before he ascends the throne.

I also give William the benefit of the doubt here because despite the fact that Harry loved and misses his mother, I think William was closest to her and was most affected when she died so a little maladtroitness on his part is understandable.

People who were around Diana say that William was her closest confidante and the only 'man' she trusted. Her bodyguard said that she told William everything and I think that with this history of shared confidences, the emotional attachment between them was stronger than Diana or William had with anyone else.

Sometimes still water runs deep and I noticed that William has been much more reticent about talking about Diana than Harry. Harry mentioned her quite openly when he first went to Lesotho and other times after that but the first time I heard William talk about her was the announcement for the concert and the recent interview. I think the relationship between William and Diana was so intense and she was taken away before they had a chance to resolve some issues that it has taken more time for him to recover from her death than it has Harry.

Yes, it may be a PR disaster in the short term but I hope that if they take care of the the relationships between the family members first, then better PR for the family will naturally follow. If the memorial service is just a PR band aid to cover a festering wound in the relationships between members of the royal family it will fail; if it is a part of healing and coming to terms for the royal family it will succeed. Of course we can't tell which it is but with the PR negativity I hope the family is getting some healing out of the process.
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  #290  
Old 08-07-2007, 09:18 AM
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In view to this polemical question, I believe many people specialized in the press and relations have made their point to Camilla. As advisors they told her what was the best thing to do. She will probably follow their advices because it's them who helped to find her clothing style, her role, and they very well succeeded.
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  #291  
Old 08-07-2007, 10:40 AM
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Princess Diana received a lot of provocations from Camilla and Charles.Diana couldnīt manage the situation.
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  #292  
Old 08-07-2007, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
But my main reason for thinking that Harry doesn't have a problem with Camilla is that he is not good at hiding his feeling. Last year he physically attacked the co-author of another tell-all book about Charles and reportedly screamed, Leave my father alone while he hit on the guy. It was totally spontaneous (his group didn't know the author would be there) and undignified. I don't think Charles put him up to that silly act of defense. It was very embarassing for both Harry and Charles and started the rounds of Harry attacking reporters which isn't good for his reputation or the monarchy.
Oh my, I didn't know of this incident. Poor Harry, so temperamental like his grandfather, but I love them to bits (Harry and Philip). The younger resorts to his fists and the older resorts to his tongue, but it comes to same lack of impulse-control! In this case, it is especially endearing, despite the undignified incident in itself, as it proves how much Harry reveres, loves, adores, respects his father. Once again, Harry put his heart before his *better* judgement (which must be somewhere sometimes, poor fellow). It's lucky he has those burly bodyguards to restrain him, otherwise he might have landed in jail or with a fine or something for causing serious damage!

i agree with everything you said, ysbel. I imagine that PH regards Camilla as a person, unique and funny and sweet, rather than as a one-dimensional form like, "She who recked my parents' marriage." I think he and PW can see through all that stuff directly to her soul, which makes her so loved by their dad.

Quote:
Martha: Diana couldnīt manage the situation.
I imagine Diana wouldn't (rather than couldn't) manage the situation. She wanted a marriage where she was a loved wife, not a loveless one where the husband turned to another for his emotional needs.
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  #293  
Old 08-07-2007, 12:39 PM
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If you watched the interview with the princes you'd know that William and Harry are very consciously trying to "spin" the image of their mother. (Let's also realize that they were children when she died and their view of her is skewed to their personal experiences) They are trying to take back her image. They are also young men who live in the present and have to get on with their lives. As much as Diana fans would kind of love to see them hate Camilla, what good would it serve for the Princes. They have a very close relationship with their father-their only parent-and we should be happy for them that they are probably the first Wales children in history to have had such a relationship. Fighting with Camilla wouldn't help them and would certainly not help Diana. She is dead. I think that a memorial service where her sons invite the woman who made their mother miserable, is an honor to Diana's memory. It shows that she raised sons who are mature and forgiving and that they can get on with their lives.
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  #294  
Old 08-07-2007, 02:42 PM
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Poor Harry, so temperamental like his grandfather, but I love them to bits (Harry and Philip). The younger resorts to his fists and the older resorts to his tongue, .
It shows how unlike Philip and Charles, Harry is.
Quote:
As much as Diana fans would kind of love to see them hate Camilla
Perhaps William and Harry should not attend the memorial either, after all, they appear to care deeply for the woman their mother accused of all sorts of things, all based on a vague 'womans intuition'!
Perhaps this thread should be 'Who should be allowed to attend'.
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  #295  
Old 08-07-2007, 02:53 PM
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Except that it isn't, so perhaps we can get back on topic.
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  #296  
Old 08-07-2007, 03:02 PM
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From a purley PR perspective her attendance, I think, will not only undo all the good work of those who have tried to make her more acceptable to the public but will make her look worse than ever as she will be perceived as being breathtakingly bold and brass necked. I mean, her only contribution to Diana's life was to make her miserable by consistently sleeping with her husband, thats not up for debate it's fact. Time has passed and things have moved on since Diana died but a memorial is a reflection on her life so quite obviously there is no place for Camilla there. I also don't think that the wishes of William and Harry should be viewed as infallible. In any given situation what they want is almost always viewed as the right thing to do and I think this kind of sycophantic reaction to them has to stop. I can't imagine why they have asked Camilla but it's the wrong decision for her own sake if nothing else.
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  #297  
Old 08-07-2007, 04:14 PM
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I mean, her only contribution to Diana's life was to make her miserable by consistently sleeping with her husband, thats not up for debate it's fact.
I'm afraid it is not fact at all and if that is the reason Camilla shouldn't attend, then, as it takes two to Tango, Charles should not attend either. He was there at the start of this miserable alliance, he was the one that made Diana miserable or did Camilla have him chained to the bed? How about Tiggy, Diana also accused her of having an affair with Charles.
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  #298  
Old 08-07-2007, 04:35 PM
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Even it is a PR operation, it is a right decision to make. It proves Princes's maturity, thoughtfulness, fairness, well balance character. They live in the present and the future, not the past. I always find them selfless and understanding to accept Camilla as a part of their father's life. I always think it was a pity that Diana was too immature and too jealousy to see Camilla's positive effects on Charles which are good for him. It is a compassate for them to wish their father the best rather than let him live in miserable things. If Diana did love Charles, I think she would wish him happiness.

It is Princes' moment to lead the memorial serivce to celebrate their mother's life. If people love Diana, they should love her boys because she loved them so much. By then,they should let the boys live in a hamonarised enviroment rather than a hatred environment. Diana is dead, and the past should be buried.
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  #299  
Old 08-07-2007, 06:10 PM
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Even it is a PR operation, it is a right decision to make. It proves Princes's maturity, thoughtfulness, fairness, well balance character. They live in the present and the future, not the past. I always find them selfless and understanding to accept Camilla as a part of their father's life. I always think it was a pity that Diana was too immature and too jealousy to see Camilla's positive effects on Charles which are good for him. It is a compassate for them to wish their father the best rather than let him live in miserable things. If Diana did love Charles, I think she would wish him happiness.

It is Princes' moment to lead the memorial serivce to celebrate their mother's life. If people love Diana, they should love her boys because she loved them so much. By then,they should let the boys live in a hamonarised enviroment rather than a hatred environment. Diana is dead, and the past should be buried.
I like the line that I bolded. You're right, the past happened at least ten years ago, they should move on. I've had my views changed, I thought it would be better if she didn't go, but now I think that she should do want the boys have asked her to do. If they hadn't asked her to go, she shouldn't have gone. But they have obviously moved on, which I think is such a good thing, considering all that Camilla did to their parents' marriage. It's nice that they have accepted her as a step-mother and friend.
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  #300  
Old 08-07-2007, 07:09 PM
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On reading the posts after my last one I am confused. One states that Charles and Camilla's adultery is a fabrication (despite Charles himself admitting to it on T.V.) and the other suggests that Diana was out of order in objecting to Camilla sleeping with her husband because she made him happy. I am not going to bother to respond to such remarks other than to make clear that I am not a partisan of either side but am simply amazed that the question of Camilla attending this service has arose at all. If she has no guilt she should call herself Princess of Wales and not hide behind the Duchess of Cornwall title. But at the end of the day I won't post on this thread again because we could go around in circles over the issue but the facts will out and I do believe that if Charles and his "Duchess" insist on attending this service they will lose what what little standing they have gained in the last 16 months.
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