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  #81  
Old 03-12-2016, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
I know that many have said that Anne has another perspective on her childhood, but each kid is different and, as you say, as a different sensitiveness. Plus, Charles was the heir, and I bet that at that time he was being treated/educated differently from early on.

Diana is a totally different matter here, and I'll risk drifting off topic. I just think that comparisons are not even possbile. Different women, diffrent era, different roles etc.

Very true! And Diana also was subjected to criticism as a mother.

(Wasn't it Lord Chesterfield who said: Before I was married I had six theories about raising children, and now I have six children and no theories!)?
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  #82  
Old 03-13-2016, 10:49 AM
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Very true! And Diana also was subjected to criticism as a mother.

(Wasn't it Lord Chesterfield who said: Before I was married I had six theories about raising children, and now I have six children and no theories!)?
I just think that it is not fair to criticize a mother if you don't know what happened, especially in another time and when the mother in question is a young queen.
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  #83  
Old 03-13-2016, 01:13 PM
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In regards to the picture of the Queen disembarking after a time away and just shaking Charles' hand, I wish I could find and post a picture here that I saw recently and cannot find it again. It showed Charles roughly at the same age greeting his grandfather, George VI and formally shaking his hand. This is what he had been schooled to do in a public, formal situation with his parents and grandparents. I really don't think it reflects in any way on the mother/son relationship between Charles and his mother.

There are just things that we teach our children from a very early age and this is one aspect of Charles' upbringing as The Prince of Wales. As soon as our children are old enough to speak, we teach them to say "please" and "thank you" and to use "inside voice" and things. Charles grew up learning early the dos and don'ts of public royal life. I'd even go as far as to say that perhaps Charles missed out on a lot with his mother as a child because of her public role but then again, there are many mothers out there that have to be away from their children for long stretches at times because they serve in the military. It doesn't make them bad parents or cold parents but different kinds of parents.

One thing though that Charles had that he has kept with him for his entire lifetime is a deep love and affection for his grandmother. I can really imagine that having that special relationship with her grandson was a soothing balm to the Queen Mum to help heal the loss of her beloved Bertie. Being there for her daughter also gave her purpose.

Looking at the entire picture, I see a close, loving family relationship that survived through decades and decades and is still going strong.
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  #84  
Old 03-13-2016, 02:30 PM
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I guess one important aspect that people often overlook is that Charles was only 3 years old when Elizabeth II became queen. Unlike other crown princesses who had the time to raise a family before ascending the throne, Queen Elizabeth II had to take up state obligations very early in her marriage and, being in particular the British monarch and the head of the Commonwealth, she was exceptionally busy, even in comparison to most of her fellow monarchs. I imagine that must have taken a toll on the amount of time she could devote to her children, which is perfectly understandable.
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  #85  
Old 03-13-2016, 05:47 PM
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There was a short video, shown on one of the threads here (can't remember which) showing the Queen Mother returning to England from a tour or journey abroad. There to greet her were her daughter and Charles and Anne. The two women kissed on the cheek, but the Queen Mother bobbed down and wholeheartedly hugged both her very young grandchildren before they all got into a carriage and rode away.

I don't think the handshake the Queen was faced with when Charles greeted her on that other occasion was a matter of protocol or teaching Charles manners. Didn't the Queen supposedly say to him "Not you dear!" when he stuck out his hand?
It is simply a matter of different temperaments.

The Queen Mother apparently startled everyone by throwing her arms around her husband in public after he had struggled through a particularly difficult speech before the war and told him "I'm so proud of you darling!"

Whatever our Queen may or may not have done in private I just can't imagine her doing as her mother did in public when she was young. Elizabeth was very shy, her mother wasn't (nor was Diana) and in public she was not demonstrative with her children or husband. She did not show her emotions in public. A great part of this was the times, but it was also that she was a less tactile, less demonstrative character.
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  #86  
Old 03-13-2016, 06:39 PM
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Here is that video.

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  #87  
Old 03-13-2016, 06:44 PM
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Thank you, Queen Claude.
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  #88  
Old 03-13-2016, 06:49 PM
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Just saw the video for the first time and I absolutely loved it! Charles and Anne were so cute when they greeted Granny. 😍
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  #89  
Old 03-13-2016, 07:04 PM
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The QMQE was naturally more maternal. Her eyes light up whenever she saw children. I don't think QEII was as maternal as her mother, and watching clios of QEII and her mother, you can quickly see this.
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  #90  
Old 09-02-2016, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
There was I don't think the handshake the Queen was faced with when Charles greeted her on that other occasion was a matter of protocol or teaching Charles manners. Didn't the Queen supposedly say to him "Not you dear!" when he stuck out his hand?
It is simply a matter of different temperaments.

Theless tactile, less demonstrative character.
no of course not. I think it was that Charles hadn't seen his mother for so long, he was awkward with her, and wasn't sure how to greet her.. and she wasn't openly affectionate with him, esp not in public...
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  #91  
Old 09-02-2016, 09:38 PM
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Did you see Charles's face in the video when he took a look at that soldier, and his all-over demeanour on this occasion? The start of the nervy facial tics he became known for. This was a nervous diffident child, very anxious to do the right thing. The only time he brightened up was when he saw Grannie.

The Queen was incredibly po-faced with her children when they were young and I can well imagine that to a small child Prince Philip could appear hectoring or bullying even when he didn't mean to. I grew up in Norfolk and saw the family on several occasions. Charles never looked at ease with his parents even when he was older. He seems to have come to terms with it in recent years, but I certainly don't think he had a particularly happy childhood.
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  #92  
Old 09-03-2016, 03:31 AM
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I think it is pretty well know that he didn't get on well with Philip as a kid. And I think the queen was (a) awkward and shy and not very affectionate in any kind of physical way, and (b) very devoted ot her husband.
I think as a young woman she was wrapped up with Philip and perhaps wasn't ready for motherhood.. and was the kind of woman who was "content to leave childcare to nanny". There is a story - don't know how true - that when Diana was looking after the children because it was her nanny's day off, the queen said "I don't know Why Diana has to do this, there are plenty of housemaids."
I think she was a lot more "motherly" and affectionate to Andrew and Edward when they came along, but with Anne and Charles she was not very tactile. I don't know if she would ever be comfortable with expressing affection, esp physically.
I think Charles IS a very conscientious nervy sort of man, even now. He wants to do the right thing, agonises over what it should be, and as a little boy, he was problaby VERY nervous of PHilp and perhaps of his mother, who seemed distant and in his child mind, didn't protect him form Philip (or problaby the unpleasant Anne bullying him too).
I must look at the video properly another time, but yes I think he was a bit afraid of his parents, and felt more comfortable with his loving grandma, and she loved him because he reminded her of her shy seflf doubting husband.
I think in the present, he has grown closer to his parents, he understands them better and gets on with them, esp his mother...
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  #93  
Old 09-03-2016, 08:43 AM
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I very much agree with everything that has been said about Charles and his parents. With the queen it was a matter of mindset, age, duty and personality, while with Prince Philip I get a sense of discomfort from Charles as a child. Now tat he is an man, I think he has understood, if not accepted, the weird behaviour that he felt as a child around his parents.
In short, I think that grown-up Charles has a better relationship with his parents that the child and teenage Charles.
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  #94  
Old 09-03-2016, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think it is pretty well know that he didn't get on well with Philip as a kid. And I think the queen was (a) awkward and shy and not very affectionate in any kind of physical way, and (b) very devoted ot her husband.
I think as a young woman she was wrapped up with Philip and perhaps wasn't ready for motherhood.. and was the kind of woman who was "content to leave childcare to nanny". There is a story - don't know how true - that when Diana was looking after the children because it was her nanny's day off, the queen said "I don't know Why Diana has to do this, there are plenty of housemaids."
I think she was a lot more "motherly" and affectionate to Andrew and Edward when they came along, but with Anne and Charles she was not very tactile. I don't know if she would ever be comfortable with expressing affection, esp physically.
I think Charles IS a very conscientious nervy sort of man, even now. He wants to do the right thing, agonises over what it should be, and as a little boy, he was problaby VERY nervous of PHilp and perhaps of his mother, who seemed distant and in his child mind, didn't protect him form Philip (or problaby the unpleasant Anne bullying him too).
I must look at the video properly another time, but yes I think he was a bit afraid of his parents, and felt more comfortable with his loving grandma, and she loved him because he reminded her of her shy seflf doubting husband.
I think in the present, he has grown closer to his parents, he understands them better and gets on with them, esp his mother...
I am intrigued at what evidence there is to suggest 'unpleasant Anne' bullied her brother? I've never heard this before
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  #95  
Old 09-03-2016, 10:06 AM
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The QMQE was naturally more maternal. Her eyes light up whenever she saw children. I don't think QEII was as maternal as her mother, and watching clios of QEII and her mother, you can quickly see this.
What different days! A ceremony with all and sundry dress up and polished to welcome her home - and a carriage ride to boot.

I think learning to never walk in front of mummy must have been weird for little people, and clearly, Anne had not yet mastered the technique.

Philip's smile in this video is so endearing!
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  #96  
Old 09-07-2016, 12:01 PM
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I am intrigued at what evidence there is to suggest 'unpleasant Anne' bullied her brother? I've never heard this before
Im sure that someone has mentioned it, that she used to "beat him up" as a kid. She's a tough unsympathetic person in general, and he was a nervy shy awkward child.. I can quite see her bossing him around at the least. Having watched that video now, yes i can see that Charles is nervous and unsure of himself... very much so.
Im sure his grandmother was one of the few people that he felt safe and comfortable with as a child...
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  #97  
Old 09-07-2016, 12:39 PM
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Meh...siblings fight and carry on, normal stuff.

However Anne is very much like her father and Charles has had a strained relationship with him at times from what I've read/seen. Stands to reason that her personality wouldn't have meshed as well with Charles's back then.

I do think today they have a cordial relationship...based on how they interact in public settings.


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  #98  
Old 09-07-2016, 06:27 PM
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Its not "fighting" if one child is beating another up. No idea what they think of each other nowadays, but as children, I think that Anne was indeed like Philip, and Philip bullied Charles. He is sensitive, and gentle and Anne is insensitive and rude by nature. He wasn't really sporty as a kid I think but was pushed inot it by Philip, while Anne was naturally fond of all sorts of things like that and was probably her father's favourite. the queen wasn't very doting on Charles and he msut have felt very left out.. if he hadn't had his nanny and grandmother.
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  #99  
Old 09-07-2016, 06:57 PM
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Hmmm I don't think it was as bad as all that, they seem close now and their children are very close. I think its pretty hard for someone who's never met Anne to say she is insensitive and rude, she may appear that way in public but no one knows for sure what she is like in private. The footage we saw on the BBC docu from the early days of their childhood shows two children very happy in each others company and having fun, all children argue and fight and yes they are both extreme personalities so I'm for their childhood it was quite heated at times.
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  #100  
Old 09-07-2016, 10:38 PM
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I've always seen Phillip as a bully; perhaps because he was never as important as his wife, he turned into a domestic tyrant.

Charles did not have a happy childhood. For one thing, his school was a bad fit and he was not permitted to change to a happier venue. (I blame Phillip for that). He had such a mindset about QUITTERS- remember Edward and his marine training?

Father and son just haven't much in common, and the resentments of youth linger for years after people might be expected to just get over it.
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