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  #21  
Old 09-30-2005, 07:01 PM
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Incas, as I said in my previous post. If that is true why does Anne not have the same issues as Charles? She was born only 2years later. Elizabeth was not on the throne and yet she didn't spend any more time with Anne as she had done with Charles.
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Old 09-30-2005, 07:33 PM
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She wasn't heir to the throne, and she wasn't a disappointment to her father. She also didn't seem to have a particularly close relationship with the Queen Mother.
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2005, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Georgia
Incas, as I said in my previous post. If that is true why does Anne not have the same issues as Charles? She was born only 2years later. Elizabeth was not on the throne and yet she didn't spend any more time with Anne as she had done with Charles.
Well the easy answer is that Anne is not heir to the throne. She had pressure but not to the extent that Charles did.

But Anne still had problems. She fought against going to an all girls boarding school and she lost that battle. When she signed her exercise books P. Anne, the girls started calling her P.A. and she had a fighting row with her parents before going back her second term.

When she was young she had a horrible relationship with the press. She was impatient with them and they were brutal to her.

Her first marriage fared no better than Charles'. People around Mark Philips complained that the Royals treated their in-laws as less than they were and Mark Phillips apparently had some affairs.

Anne's saving grace was that when her marriage fell apart, no one was interested. Everyone just wanted to read about Charles and Di. So she had some private space to get her life in order, get a divorce, find someone more compatible and settle down.

Charles never had that luxury.
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Old 10-01-2005, 01:07 AM
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No one is the same. Everyone handles things differently. It is not just that Charles is heir to the throne, he handles things differently than Anne. For example, when you have two children you can not treat them the same because they are not the same. You can not discipline them the same either. With one child you may have to beat it into them, the other you may only have to tell once. That is why compairing one person to another will get you nowhere, it is pointless and unfair to compair anyone.
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  #25  
Old 09-23-2012, 02:03 PM
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I have read this thread with interest, but noticed the last posts were from 2005. Have your thoughts evolve on the relationship between the Prince of Wales and his parents, especially after his Jubilee tribute to the Queen and the speech he gave at the concert ?

I think Prince Charles appears more at ease with himself and settled and that his relationship with his elderly parents may be better now. His speech at the concert was perfect, both witty and respectful. It seems heartfelt and genuine. Asking the crowd to shoot out for his father was particularly touching : it means he realizes how important Prince Philip is for the Queen (the reaction from the crowd was astonishing by the way, by far the biggest cheer of the night!).

But still, mixed feelings emerge from his one-hour tribute to the Queen (which is without doubt the most surprising and revealing documentary ever made on the royal family, certainly because it is really intimate and genuine, as opposed to staged).

In every piece of film, Prince Philip appears to be a hands-on father, ready to look after the children or take part in whatever they are up to. But Prince Charles acknowledges this only once with “what parents do for their children” and he doesn’t put much sentiment into it, as if he had to acknowledge it but is not wholly convinced. He demonstrates much more affection towards Lord Mountbatten, the Queen Mother and even the grandfather he barely knew, than towards his father. Likewise, he seems surprised, twice, to find out that he and Princess Ann were part of processions with their parents and not left out. It is as if some films were in contradiction to his own recollection of his childhood.

The tribute also left me wondering why none of his brothers was included and why all the unknown films were from his early childhood and not after the 60’s.

But well, I might be reading too much into it!
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:15 PM
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I think you might well be reading too much into it. This was his tribute to his mother on her 60th Jubilee. His siblings had participated in the Diamond Queen which he did not take part in, so all of her children have passed along their commentary on the reign in one documentary or another.
I think if any of us look back at pictures/films of our childhoods after 60 years no doubt there would be things that we had long forgotten or remembered differently. Also our relationship with our parents and how we view them as people does change as we ourselves get older. The relationship between sons and fathers can be difficult at times when we are young. Probably more so if we are not a chip off the old block.
I thought it was a very warm tribute to his mother, who after all is the focus of the year.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:43 PM
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I always feel The Queen Mother could have done better..

It is not rare in the royals that once the parents ascend the throne, the grandparents take care of the kids. Even the Queen's parents, left their daughters several times with Queen Mary while going on foreign tours, before and after taking over. You can see how much active role the Dowager Queen has taken in moulding the future Queen..taking them to galleries, theatres, coaching them on how to behave in public, following up on what books their governesses are making them read and so on and on.She didnt even shy away from scolding TheQueen Regnant for wearing short skirts for funeral..
I am of the opinion that Queen Mother has hardly played any active role in case of Charles. He stayed with her means he just stayed with her..She always kept herself busy with her colorful social life and extravagance..(She fortunately got tremendous positive press that overshadows her extravagance). Wasnt she who refused to send her daughters to school..saying all my sisters had governesses and we alll got good husbands (See Wikipedia of Princess Margaret).And inspite of being a sort of retired person she could never help her daughter Margaret..did not provide her proper counsel or tried to control whats going on..
And what she did to Prince charles..Can anyone bet that with all the age and experience she has...and knowing Diana, her family situation and brought-up very very well..Would she have ever dreamed that charles and Diana will click? But still she pushed him to that side..just to counteract Mountbatten..
I know its very easy to blame someone in hindsight..But just shared my thoughts..wat do u say
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  #28  
Old 09-23-2012, 02:52 PM
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  #29  
Old 09-23-2012, 02:55 PM
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Ii don't think there is any doubt at all that there was a very close relationship between the Queen Mother and her eldest grandchild Prince Charles. She was the one he turned to when he was at Gordonstoun and hating it. She was the one who included a stop to visit him at Geelong when she was visiting Australia and knew he was lonely. While he was of course close to Louis Mountbatten, his honorary grandfather, I think it was the QM that he turned to for comfort at difficult times in his life. It was she afterall who made Birkhall available to him when he was seeing Camilla. Even his lifestyle today somewhat emulates the Edwardian lifestyle of his grandmother.
Charles has no doubt been influenced by many people in his life, his parents, grandmother and Louis Mountbatten amongst them, but that could be said about us all. I don't think it was a competition between any of them.
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  #30  
Old 09-23-2012, 03:08 PM
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While I do not doubt that QEII has been a very dutiful queen, she has never seemed like a very warm person. From bios and pictures throughout her life, the only one she has seemed to show any kind of affection is her husband. She does not come through as the mothering type and had she been from my generation (30-35) I think she would have chosen not to have children and focused on her carreer. That is ofcourse difficult when you have to ensure the continuation af the monarchy, but neverthrless my humble opinion. I think she could have been quite satisfied with just sharing her life with Philip. It is not that she doesn't love her kids, they have not/are just not her priority. It is very telling that her sons has chosen very maternal women as mothers of their own children.
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  #31  
Old 09-23-2012, 03:18 PM
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I found Charles' tribute to his "mama" very touching and heartfelt. He didn't try and hide the emotions he felt as he reminisced about his childhood.

A point was brought up as to why the clips shown were primarily of him and Anne and none with his younger brothers. I think the reason being for this is because it was Charles sharing his memories as a young lad and with Anne being so close in age, they were together in a lot of things. By the time Andrew and Edward came along, Charles for the most part was away at school. I'm sure there are memories he has of all of them doing things, but I think this documentary was primarily focused on his memories of his parents as a young prince.

Like most children too, Charles had relatives that were close to him that were not the parents. Sometimes parenting gets in the way to being a close confidante of a child. Perhaps Charles was too introverted and sensitive by nature to identify with his father who always seemed to be the ruler of the family roost and believed in discipline and self sacrifice? Perhaps with growing up in a aura of deep tradition and history put him in more awe of his mother than most children do? I don't think it says anything negative about Charles' parenting but it may give a clue to why he found such comfort in his grandmother and his Uncle Dickie.

Today I can see strengths from all of the major influences in Charles' life reflected in the man that he is. There's a bit of Philip in him when he makes a witty quip to the press ("they've been practicing long enough") and his love for nature, a bit of HM in how he conducts himself in his mannerisms and being a stickler for perfection and propriety. I see Granny in him when he looks so at home in his beloved Scotland and to Uncle Dickie, I would attribute putting into practice his motto "Ich Dien" (I Serve).

A myriad of people make us who we are today by their influences in our lives. This inner glimpse into Charles' memories of his mama and his family life was exquisitely done and I think was the most personal glimpse into the private life of the BRF I've seen to date.
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  #32  
Old 09-23-2012, 03:20 PM
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Hey I have poste just ahead of you..Can u tel me wat u think of my post..Especially the last portion..
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  #33  
Old 09-23-2012, 03:25 PM
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While I do not doubt that QEII has been a very dutiful queen, she has never seemed like a very warm person. From bios and pictures throughout her life, the only one she has seemed to show any kind of affection is her husband. She does not come through as the mothering type and had she been from my generation (30-35) I think she would have chosen not to have children and focused on her carreer. That is ofcourse difficult when you have to ensure the continuation af the monarchy, but neverthrless my humble opinion. I think she could have been quite satisfied with just sharing her life with Philip. It is not that she doesn't love her kids, they have not/are just not her priority. It is very telling that her sons has chosen very maternal women as mothers of their own children.
I, belive, you have made a very wise and astute observation. She was raised to be distant and she is. I think in these latter years, she is warmer to her grandchildren. But her children, were in a different position. One of the things that made Diana such a terrible wife for Charles is that she didn't mother him. She was a very good mother, to her children, but she just wanted to be a wife to her husband and she needed his support. They both needed mothering.
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  #34  
Old 09-23-2012, 03:25 PM
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Hey I have poste just ahead of you..Can u tel me wat u think of my post..Especially the last portion..
I tend to agree with you. I for one do not believe the whole "Grandmother to the Nation" picture of the Queenmother.
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  #35  
Old 09-23-2012, 03:40 PM
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I am old enough to remember when HM got married and when she had Charles and Anne. She was very much a hands on Mother until she became Queen at such an early age. I believe she found it very difficult to blend her queen role with her mother role. I can remember pictures of her having the children brought to her study as she did her boxes, and of her sitting on the floor playing with them. If you paid attending to Charles' tribute to his mother, there were pictures of her playing with him and getting him to walk. That was before she became queen. Give the woman credit for being a working mother and doing the best she knew how. At that time, not too many women had careers and she had to find her own way. Ask any career woman how hard it can be. The women that I knew that worked always felt they were cheating their kids, but most did not feel like they had the option to quit. Some for money reasons, others for their own mental health. HM did not have that choice at all.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:45 PM
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I tend to agree with you. I for one do not believe the whole "Grandmother to the Nation" picture of the Queenmother.
I think when Elizabeth Bowles-Lyon married her Bertie and started a family, as the Duke and Duchess of York, they had a very close knit family albeit a very aristocratic one. During WWII when suggested that the Queen and her daughters go to Canada for safety, the reply was something like "My daughters will not go without me. I will not go without the King and the King will never leave his people". She also commented on BP being bombed that she could now look the East End of London in the eye. She was a very stalwart, straight shooting and dignified woman who was the matriarchial rock of the family.

When her Bertie died in '52 and her daughter became Queen, I think the QM was irreplaceable to her daughter and its been said several places that throughout the Queen's reign, there was hardly a day that passed where HM wasn't in touch with her mother. Even in the long years of Elizabeth's II's reign, I believe that family wise, it was still the Queen Mum that was the true matriarch of that family.
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  #37  
Old 09-23-2012, 03:51 PM
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I am old enough to remember when HM got married and when she had Charles and Anne. She was very much a hands on Mother until she became Queen at such an early age. I believe she found it very difficult to blend her queen role with her mother role. I can remember pictures of her having the children brought to her study as she did her boxes, and of her sitting on the floor playing with them. If you paid attending to Charles' tribute to his mother, there were pictures of her playing with him and getting him to walk. That was before she became queen. Give the woman credit for being a working mother and doing the best she knew how. At that time, not too many women had careers and she had to find her own way. Ask any career woman how hard it can be. The women that I knew that worked always felt they were cheating their kids, but most did not feel like they had the option to quit. Some for money reasons, others for their own mental health. HM did not have that choice at all.
I absolutely give her credit as a working mother, but that does not changes my opinion. As you said she had no choice but to have children and to be queen, but that does not make her a maternal woman. Which is also OK and not meant as a critiscism, but as an observation and possible explanation to the distant relationship with esp POW
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:58 PM
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Somehow I get the feeling that she was more maternal than people suspect. As you see her with her grandchildren she seems to care very much and a person's personality does not change as you age. Usually, someone who does not enjoy children only gets worse as they age, not better. I just think it was mostly her job. Besides, why would she go on to have Andrew and Edward so much later when she had already produced on heir.
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:09 PM
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Based on the footage Prince Charles shared (commemorating the Queen's Jubilee), I would never call the Queen a distant mother. On the contrary, she appeared to have been as loving and involved as was possible in her situation, when duty always had to come first.

Prince Charles childhood home video - YouTube
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:24 PM
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Based on the footage Prince Charles shared (commemorating the Queen's Jubilee), I would never call the Queen a distant mother. On the contrary, she appeared to have been as loving and involved as was possible in her situation, when duty always had to come first.

Prince Charles childhood home video - YouTube
You know, the more I think about it, the more the "family movies" that Charles allowed the world to see disproves the rumor of the Queen being a distant mother and all else.

It makes me realize that back when Charles and Anne were little ones, the private lives of the BRF were still shrouded in mystery. What family life we did get a glimpse into never at any time detracted from the Queen having an aura of majesty and regal bearing. The press actually had respect for the royal family and their private times remained private.

What I thought watching the videos that Charles was commentating on of his childhood was that those people in the clips could be any family and their own home movies. This is what makes what Charles shared with us all so extraordinarily special. It gave us a look at family without the royal adjective before it.
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