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  #121  
Old 09-22-2005, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth
So she becomes Queen. If she and Charles decide to call her "princess consort" even though she's legally queen, who's going to stop them? She's Princess of Wales now but is choosing to be called something else,

Well, and if he decides to do it anyway, is Parliament going to stick him in the Tower? If they decide that Queen Camilla is going to be known as Princess Consort, how, in practical termsw, will anybody be able to prevent it?
Technically, you're right! But since Parliament already made clear at the time of his marriage to Camilla that special legislation would have to be passed to allow her to assume the title of "Princess Consort", the intent has been defined already. Of course, when the time comes, the Prime Minister would have to decide in consultation with Parliament how to handle it.

There is no provision in the law allowing a wife of a Sovereign to be anything but Queen. Since the succession would have to be confirmed by Parliament at the start of a new reign, not to mention the Civil List issues, it is likely that either Camilla will be Queen Consort automatically or legislation will be passed to permit a lesser title.
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  #122  
Old 09-22-2005, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Frothy
It didn't surprise me and I wondered if it might change Tiaparin and co's mind about Camilla.
Do you mean those who like Diana? So I guess I'm included in the 'co'.
I wasn't surprised neither when he confirmed his good relations with Camilla (although the "love to bits" and "always close to her" parts stroke me as overdone).
I'm actually happy for him. The fact is, Di is his mother and Charles is his father. He cannot possibly engage himself in the War of the Wales. Di somehow tried to do that with Will and I think that was really selfish and careless of her (particularly considering what a good mother she was otherwise). And considering that he takes two to dance the tango, Harry certainly needs to be OK with Camilla to be OK with his father, so I'm happy for him he is.

That said, my feelings about Camilla are not changed in the least by what Harry or William think about her. I have the advantage to not be a part of this family so I don't have to do emotional concessions.
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  #123  
Old 09-22-2005, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
Do you mean those who like Diana? So I guess I'm included in the 'co'.
I wasn't surprised neither when he confirmed his good relations with Camilla (although the "love to bits" and "always close to her" parts stroke me as overdone).
I'm actually happy for him. The fact is, Di is his mother and Charles is his father. He cannot possibly engage himself in the War of the Wales. Di somehow tried to do that with Will and I think that was really selfish and careless of her (particularly considering what a good mother she was otherwise). And considering that he takes two to dance the tango, Harry certainly needs to be OK with Camilla to be OK with his father, so I'm happy for him he is.

That said, my feelings about Camilla are not changed in the least by what Harry or William think about her. I have the advantage to not be a part of this family so I don't have to do emotional concessions.

I am so sorry Idriel that you got lumped with me, the leader of the Pro Diana faction!! I think on the British Threads it almost comes down to either being Pro Diana or Pro Camilla.
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  #124  
Old 09-22-2005, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
I think on the British Threads it almost comes down to either being Pro Diana or Pro Camilla.
I'm not quite sure I understand why it has to be this way or why it "comes down to" being part of one camp or another and that there can't be any middle ground. Why is it that if you like Diana then you must hate Camilla with all your guts and if you like Camilla then Diana is the devil incarnate?

I think that mature people can appreciate that both women have/had their flaws but also their good qualities that happen to be very different from each other. One can appreciate how openly affectionate people is with strangers while also appreciating how Camilla obviously possess the British reserve.

I am neither a fervent Diana fan or an ardent Camilla supporter. I like both women for the uniqueness of what they are or were. And when it comes down to it, I think that both women possessed one of the qualities that I most admire and value: both were good mothers to their children. William and Harry and Tom and Laura have all turned out to be decent young adults, even if there were some bumps along the way. And in the end that is the better legacy of both women than being a fashion maven or a mistress.
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  #125  
Old 09-22-2005, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
I'm not quite sure I understand why it has to be this way or why it "comes down to" being part of one camp or another and that there can't be any middle ground. Why is it that if you like Diana then you must hate Camilla with all your guts and if you like Camilla then Diana is the devil incarnate?

I think that mature people can appreciate that both women have/had their flaws but also their good qualities that happen to be very different from each other. One can appreciate how openly affectionate people is with strangers while also appreciating how Camilla obviously possess the British reserve.

I am neither a fervent Diana fan or an ardent Camilla supporter. I like both women for the uniqueness of what they are or were. And when it comes down to it, I think that both women possessed one of the qualities that I most admire and value: both were good mothers to their children. William and Harry and Tom and Laura have all turned out to be decent young adults, even if there were some bumps along the way. And in the end that is the better legacy of both women than being a fashion maven or a mistress.
I totally agree!!! I am middle of the road and don't have a problem with either one.
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  #126  
Old 09-23-2005, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
I think on the British Threads it almost comes down to either being Pro Diana or Pro Camilla.
Tiaraprin this is not correct.
We do not have to take sides.
We can appreciate both on their own merits, and accept that neither of them (or no-one for that matter) is perfect.

We can also appreciate the present, look forward to the future, and still remember the past with affection. There will always be an element of "what might have been" which disintegrated with the marriage break-down and ended so tragically in Paris.

Some will emphasise the past, and some will be more interested in the here and now. That is an individual's choice, and many people will combine elements of both, especially those with a sense of history and perspective.

It is unfair to the members of these Forums that anyone is expected to be pro or anti one party or the other. Passion is a wonderful emotion, but it should be channelled in a positive manner, and not directed negatively.
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  #127  
Old 09-23-2005, 11:18 AM
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I don't think tiaraprin really meant that you had to be either pro-Diana or pro-Camilla. I think she meant that on the British threads, one would get that impression by looking at them.

That's just how I read it, though. Please correct me if Im wrong, tiaraprin.:)
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  #128  
Old 09-23-2005, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Tiaraprin this is not correct.
We do not have to take sides.
We can appreciate both on their own merits, and accept that neither of them (or no-one for that matter) is perfect.

We can also appreciate the present, look forward to the future, and still remember the past with affection. There will always be an element of "what might have been" which disintegrated with the marriage break-down and ended so tragically in Paris.

Some will emphasise the past, and some will be more interested in the here and now. That is an individual's choice, and many people will combine elements of both, especially those with a sense of history and perspective.

It is unfair to the members of these Forums that anyone is expected to be pro or anti one party or the other. Passion is a wonderful emotion, but it should be channelled in a positive manner, and not directed negatively.
.

Warren, you misunderstood what I said. Gloriana had the right interpretation.
Thanks Gloriana for explaining what I meant!:)

I will say there are times when it seems more one sided for one or the other, but I meant that it would appear to someone who is not familiar with the forums that they may get the idea of it being Pro/Con one way or another. Without reading the history of the threads and having the experience of interacting with other members, it would be easy to see how that would be thought. Through interaction and reading of the threads, a person will come to know for the most part how members feel about certain topics.
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  #129  
Old 09-23-2005, 06:52 PM
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I kind of think there is a pro-camilla and anti-diana faction here. But no worries...everyone to his own (except of course when your position dictates you to not be so biased).
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  #130  
Old 09-23-2005, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
I kind of think there is a pro-camilla and anti-diana faction here.
It's not so black-and-white as being pro-Camilla means anti-Diana. IMHO, just because someone have something nice to say about Camilla doesn't mean they are anti-Diana. Not everyone feels obligated to choose one or the other, and do the "stand by your woman" thing.
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  #131  
Old 09-23-2005, 07:16 PM
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We could all meet in person and do some mud-wrestling on behalf of our respective parties. Sort of an up-to-date joust.

Seriously, though. I think we each see something that bonds us more strongly to one or the other. With me, I think it's age and perhaps bonding over some similar difficulties that makes me a "Diana-ist".

I guess I'm a pragmatist. Camilla has lasted so long, she's not going anywhere for a long time. I can't have high blood pressure every time I see her picture.
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  #132  
Old 09-23-2005, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowabelle
We could all meet in person and do some mud-wrestling on behalf of our respective parties. Sort of an up-to-date joust.
May the best woman win!
Seriouly, I do like Diana, otherwise I wouldn't have read up so many books on her. I just don't worship her or think everything she did was right. I happen to like Camilla as well. I think they are both human and made choices in their lives that are both influenced by and influencial on each other.
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  #133  
Old 09-25-2005, 07:15 PM
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I think it's very unfair to compare Diana with Camilla or have "camps" of one side versus the other. Diana has passed on and her place in history is secure as the mother of the heir and the spare.

Life goes on and Charles, like many people today, has remarried and has a new wife. Camilla deserves to be judged on her own merits and character, based on what's happening today, not ten years ago. Everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect, including the late Princess.
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  #134  
Old 10-04-2005, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
I think it's very unfair to compare Diana with Camilla or have "camps" of one side versus the other. Diana has passed on and her place in history is secure as the mother of the heir and the spare.

Life goes on and Charles, like many people today, has remarried and has a new wife. Camilla deserves to be judged on her own merits and character, based on what's happening today, not ten years ago. Everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect, including the late Princess.
I agree the past is done we can't change it.
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  #135  
Old 11-01-2005, 10:27 AM
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Mary Wellesley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia
This is all well and good, nothing however takes away from the fact that Camilla is going to be Queen of England one day. Public opinion will change and she will be accepted eventually as Queen consort. Personally I don't think there will be anything wrong with that. I used to but I have changed my opinion over the last few months. Charles is obviously happier with Camilla being his wife.
Life is very short and after the terrorist attacks in London it should go to prove that no one knows what will happen one day to the next. People should grab any happiness that they can.
I do not begrudge Charles and Camilla their happiness together,but never forget it was purchased at the cost of so much heartache to Diana.You seem very certain that public opinion will change towards Camilla?I'm not,she is not Queen Consort material, and I doubt she ever will be.Camilla and Charles should do the decent thing and retire from the line of succession, making it clear the throne goes to William on this Queen's death.That way the House of Windsor might have a chance of survivng the damage these two extremely selfish people have caused it.
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  #136  
Old 11-01-2005, 10:57 AM
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Re:

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I do not begrudge Charles and Camilla their happiness together,but never forget it was purchased at the cost of so much heartache to Diana.
What did it cost her? It cost her nothing. It cost her a rent-free apartment in Kensington Palace, it cost her magazine deals, it cost her international attention, it cost her a stepping stone into the public eye that she abused and used against those who had tried to help. Please Please Please don't lets have another round of 'Poor Diana'. That woman was well aware of what she was doing and when. She had lovers and she said some terrible things. She betrayed the Queen, she threw an innocent old lady down a flight of stairs and almost killed her, she left a legacy of sordid tapes and allegations which will only haunt her sons and not her ex-husband who has moved on.

Quote:
You seem very certain that public opinion will change towards Camilla?I'm not,she is not Queen Consort material
Why isn't she? Why isn't she Queen Consort material. She has a good manner, she has a wonderful personality, she has charm, wit and she has a sensible head on her shoulders. She doesnt try to upstage every other member of the Royal Family, she doesn't try to be a Prima Donna, she doesn't play Mother Theresa one second and then play the Hollywood Model the next. She is perfect Queen material. She has class and she is the wife of the Prince of Wales. She will be OUR Queen and thank God for it.

Quote:
Camilla and Charles should do the decent thing and retire from the line of succession, making it clear the throne goes to William on this Queen's death.
The pup always resembles the bitch. William will either follow his father's lead and try and do some good for his country or he'll put on Betty Boop eyes and try and play the innocent virgin when in actual fact, he's a Government's nightmare.

Quote:
That way the House of Windsor might have a chance of survivng the damage these two extremely selfish people have caused it.
Selfish? For loving one another? Prince Charles is trying to help us. He's doing so much for organic farming, the environment and he's had so long to get to know his people, to understand what sort of a Monarchy they want and he knows his faults and he's trying. But it's people like you who won't let him try.

What gives anyone the right to comment on their personal lives? What gives anyone the right to say that succession should be changed because he divorced his wife? He was born to rule over us and long may he do so. He will be our God-Given sovereign and Camilla will be at his side when he takes on the role of King. Diana's ghost can't be Queen. Her son will one day be Sovereign - that should be enough to satisfy the obssession. If he follows his mother's lead, he will be the ruin of the House of Windsor - not Charles and Camilla.
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  #137  
Old 11-01-2005, 11:58 AM
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your statements are completely unfounded.
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  #138  
Old 11-01-2005, 12:01 PM
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Re:

Yes of course they are. Totally unfounded. I'm a liar. My apologies to all - I have blasphemed in the worst way. I have dared to criticise the Goddess Diana in all her glory and should be shot.
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  #139  
Old 11-01-2005, 12:06 PM
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If I may ask this. I know and agree with the laws of succession and what happens when Charles becomes King, Camilla becomes Queen. That is the law unless Parliament changes it, right? She has every legal right to be called Queen.

That is fine with me.

But, put yourself in Camilla's Jimmy Choos for a moment. After everything that has happened, after being vilified, hated, threatened, teased, ridiculed, had thrown things at and so on....would you really want to sit there as an equal on the throne as Queen consort with all the craziness that will come with it?
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  #140  
Old 11-01-2005, 12:10 PM
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Re:

The only people who have ridiculed and thrown things are complete nutters who have no self-control. When Prince Charles becomes King, Camilla will automatically become Queen. She was made a villain by the Press but now the chips are in Camilla's favour. She has been accepted by the majority here in Britain and she is doing very well indeed.
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