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  #201  
Old 02-21-2010, 12:24 AM
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There are some conflicting pieces of evidence here:

1. They didn't marry while she was alive leads many people to claim that the QM didn't care for Camilla - at least as a wife.

2. She leant them her home in Scotland so she did approve of Camilla - at least as a mistress.

3. Charles has given a lot of the QM's jewellery, including the engagement ring, to Camilla and surely he wouldn't do that if he knew that his grandmother disapproved of that action as he absolutely adored his grandmother.

4. Charles has married Camilla and has moved her into the QM's residences in Scotland and in London - again surely he wouldn't do that if he knew that his beloved grandmother didn't approve.

I think that she liked Camilla a lot but was also aware of the circumstances by which she became the Queen Consort and thus she wanted them to wait until after her death so as not to cause her to be in a compromised position of becoming Queen due to the desire of the King to marry a divorced woman which is what her grandson wanted (and subsequently has done) to do. Whether she ever actually said something directly to Charles on this issue or whether Charles realised it himself we will probably never know.

One thing I am sure about - she would be delighted to see how happy her grandson is now that he has married his soulmate and I am sure that she would have wanted that for him from the beginning.
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  #202  
Old 02-21-2010, 12:33 AM
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I think only problem QM had with camilla is she had no royal blood. If Prince charles was not been a crown prince it would have ok to marry her in beginning.
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  #203  
Old 02-21-2010, 04:12 AM
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She had as much royal blood as did Diana - both being descendents of Charles II.

Camilla's family was the lower end of the top level of society whereas Diana's was somewhat further up but they both came from the aristocracy levels. Camilla's grandfather was a baron putting him at the lowest level of the aristocracy. Diana's father and grandfather were Earls the third level of arisocratic titles - Dukes and Marquesses being higher, with Viscounts and Barons being lower.

There wasn't that much difference in their background. Camilla believed in enjoying being a teenager in the 60s so she wasn't 'pure' and had had a past (which was fine for the wife of the second son of the monarch but in 1981 some believed that the wife of the heir had to be a virgin).
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  #204  
Old 02-21-2010, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
One thing I am sure about - she would be delighted to see how happy her grandson is now that he has married his soulmate and I am sure that she would have wanted that for him from the beginning.
Quite right iluvebertie.

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I think only problem QM had with camilla is she had no royal blood. If Prince charles was not been a crown prince it would have ok to marry her in beginning.
I don't think that was the case, QM could hardly talk of royal blood could she. She possible didn't like Camilla because she saw her as another Wallis, the woman who had ruined her husband and forced him into being King. Shoving her and her two daughters into the royal stage.
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  #205  
Old 02-21-2010, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
There are some conflicting pieces of evidence here:

1. They didn't marry while she was alive leads many people to claim that the QM didn't care for Camilla - at least as a wife.

2. She leant them her home in Scotland so she did approve of Camilla - at least as a mistress.

... [snipped] .
If Queen Mother appeared to like Mrs. Parker Bowles and accept/encourage the relationship in question, why did not she allow her favourite grandson to marry her in the first place and be happy? So it was acceptable to have Mrs. Parker Bowles as a mistress. However, Mrs. Parker Bowles would taint the royal bloodline in other respects.
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  #206  
Old 02-21-2010, 11:27 AM
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Because in 1972/73 it wasn't up to the Queen Mother to approve the marriage. It was the Queen & only the Queen who had that power (as she continued to have until the year 2000 when the Human Rights Act came into power in the UK). And in 1973 the Queen was intending to try to pair off Prince Charles with a Duke's daughter, Lady Jane Wellesley, so she wanted Camilla out of the way & so helped arrange the wedding of Camilla to Andrew Parker-Bowles, the Catholic son of one of her closest friends.
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  #207  
Old 02-21-2010, 04:26 PM
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The Queen still has to approve all royal marriages or the person concerned has to have the approval of Parliament.
Without that the children of said marriage aren't in line to the succession and therefore can't inherit.
The Human Rights Act guarantees the right to marry not the right of their offspring to inherit and for that they need the Queen's permission (or Parliaments).
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  #208  
Old 02-21-2010, 04:28 PM
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The Queen Mother was old-fashioned and to her men didn't marry their mistresses but kept them. She didn't see anything wrong with that.

She remembered that in 1936 a divorced woman wanted to marry the King and the consequences were an abdication and her husband's accession, early death and the succession of her daughter. To later on agree to Charles marrying a divorcee would mean that she would expect Charles to have to lose his place in the line of succession to have the precedent upheld.
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  #209  
Old 02-21-2010, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post
She possible didn't like Camilla because she saw her as another Wallis...
That's what I was thinking - after all the problems with Wallis - maybe she saw her as just another Wallis - I mean didn't Camilla's ancestor become a mistress to Edward VII? I know that has nothing to do with this, but I'm mentioning it anyway. I understand that times have changed and it's more accepted now, to marry a divorcee - but it's just weird. Edward and Wallis - then we have kinda the same situation years later - only Charles is still Prince of Wales/heir to the throne, will not abdicate, and he is married to Camilla, who is now "Her Royal Highness, Princess of Wales." Ugh, royalty.
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  #210  
Old 02-21-2010, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
There are some conflicting pieces of evidence here:

3. Charles has given a lot of the QM's jewellery, including the engagement ring, to Camilla and surely he wouldn't do that if he knew that his grandmother disapproved of that action as he absolutely adored his grandmother.
That's actually another reason I asked... it just seems like a lot of her jewels are going to Camilla, not to the Queen(meaning the Queen is not wearing them, she is picking and choosing - I know she does have some of her mother's jewels, but ...) or anyone else in the family.
Am I wrong in assuming this? Has anyone else received any of her jewels??
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  #211  
Old 02-21-2010, 08:49 PM
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I have a tiny hunch that the Queen Mum may off unofficially left them "to any future spouse's of the Prince of Wales". I remember reading that Camilla could not have attended the Queen Mums funeral unless the QM had already planned for her to be there. I think a lot of things have gone down behind closed doors that we may not ever know about.
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  #212  
Old 02-21-2010, 09:13 PM
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So secretive sometimes. I guess that's the English for you... dignified. Americans are so out there with everything, guess I'm just used to that.. everything is always aired, found out. No privacy if you're famous. Interesting.
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  #213  
Old 02-21-2010, 09:18 PM
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I have a tiny hunch that the Queen Mum may off unofficially left them "to any future spouse's of the Prince of Wales". I remember reading that Camilla could not have attended the Queen Mums funeral unless the QM had already planned for her to be there. I think a lot of things have gone down behind closed doors that we may not ever know about.
I would tend to agree with that assessment....."future spouse of the Prince of Wales" could also apply to the wife of William. She was insuring that the jewels would remain in the family.
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  #214  
Old 02-22-2010, 12:07 AM
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The Queen Mother was friendly with Andrew Parker-Bowles and Camilla for many years, so it's probably safe to say she certainly liked her. Whether that extended to her role as royal mistress and then, a future wife of her grandson, is entirely another matter.

It's been documented in quite a few reliable sources that The Queen Mother made it very clear she was adamantly opposed to Charles marrying Camilla after Diana's death. Given her own experience with the Abdication and Wallis Simpson, it doesn't take much imagination to assume The Queen Mother would be hostile to yet another similar situation, viewing any remarriage as a threat to the monarchy.

As far as her jewels and properties, these were all left to The Queen to avoid estate taxes in a sovereign to sovereign transfer. I highly doubt she left instructions to give all of her jewels to Charles, but she certainly may have indicated Birkhall was to go to him.
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  #215  
Old 02-22-2010, 02:30 AM
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Good answer. Thank you.
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  #216  
Old 02-22-2010, 05:52 AM
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I don't know if anyone has brought up this question/topic... but I was wondering how did the Queen Mother feel about Camilla? Seeing how they married after she died, I was just wondering if that was a factor or not?
Whilst the QMs approval or dissapproval may have been a factor, in my view, the bigger issue was the softening of public opening towards a remarriage of the PoW with Camilla. This took a fair few years, and hence the timing.
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  #217  
Old 02-22-2010, 05:53 AM
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I think only problem QM had with camilla is she had no royal blood.
I don't thinkl that is very likely, as the QM herself was not royal - merely of aristocratic background.
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  #218  
Old 02-22-2010, 06:22 AM
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I mean didn't Camilla's ancestor become a mistress to Edward VII? I know that has nothing to do with this, but I'm mentioning it anyway. I understand that times have changed and it's more accepted now, to marry a divorcee - but it's just weird.
Alice Keppel was Camilla's great-grandmother. Its even rumoured that Camilla's grandma Sonia is of royal blood.

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So secretive sometimes. I guess that's the English for you... dignified. Americans are so out there with everything, guess I'm just used to that.. everything is always aired, found out. No privacy if you're famous. Interesting.
We always try to be private, we don't like "airing our dirty washing" in public.
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  #219  
Old 02-22-2010, 03:48 PM
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That's actually another reason I asked... it just seems like a lot of her jewels are going to Camilla, not to the Queen(meaning the Queen is not wearing them, she is picking and choosing - I know she does have some of her mother's jewels, but ...) or anyone else in the family.
Am I wrong in assuming this? Has anyone else received any of her jewels??
The jewellery that Prince Charles given to Camilla since 2005 (an engagement ring, earings & a 5-string necklace of diamonds & emeralds - broken into 2 sets) were all part of a set of jewellery given to the Queen Mother in c.1940 by one of her close friends an American socialite Lady Greville of Polesden Lacey. They were not part of the royal jewellery collection. Indeed the King thought them so ostentatious a gift that he forbad his wife from wearing them during the War & after. This has all been published in a book about royal jewllery by Diana Scarisbrick - I think. Because she regarded them as her own personal property when the QM drew up her will she bequeathed them to the present Prince of Wales (not a future one) for his use. This is certainly what she did with the paintings & watercolours that she had personally acquired over the years. They may have gone via the Queen to avoid tax, but they were intended for Prince Charles & in that case he passed them on to the Royal Collection Trust for display at Clarence House. I know this because I was told by a former member of the Trust when the QM was still alive that that was what would happen on her death.
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  #220  
Old 02-22-2010, 04:17 PM
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Paintings and watercolours are one thing. Jewels are another.

I would think The Queen Mother would have let her daughter, The Queen, decide what to do with her mother's personal jewels, which after all, rightfully belong to her as the surviving child. Indeed, The Queen has been very generous with gifting many substantial pieces for Camilla's use.

Other pieces, such as the Indian Ruby and George III Tiaras, as well as Alexandra's pearl and diamond parure, belonged to the Crown and returned to the royal collection.
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