Prince of Wales Title and Succession

[magnik]

The title of PoW is granted to the hair apparent to the reigning monarch of the UK. So PoW means CP. Something like with the Spanish Prince of Asturias.
The Royal Family > Royal titles > Style and titles of The Prince of Wales

Prince of Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Crown prince - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[HM Queen Catherine]

Originally Posted by Maike

Hello, I am from Germany and quite new here. I have got a question. Charles bears the title Prince of Wales along many more. But why isn't he called Crownprince of the UK?

The title Prince of Wales has traditionally been granted to the heir of the British throne since 1301, when Edward I completed the conquest of Wales and gave the title to his son, the future Edward II.

It is a title that must be created for the eldest son of a monarch or eldest male descendant, and is granted at the pleasure of the sovereign. It is not automatically granted at birth. The same is true for investing the Prince of Wales with the ancient Earldom of Chester.

Because of this, not all English kings held the title of Prince of Wales. A more recent example is that of George VI. He was Duke of York until his brother's abdication, and was never invested as Prince of Wales.

The eldest son of the British monarch is automatically invested with the Duchy of Cornwall, the Duchy of Rothesay and the Earldom of Carrick in Scotland, and the title of Lord High Steward and Prince of Scotland.

The Prince of Wales title may only be invested in the heir apparent, who must be the eldest male in line to succession. It may not be created for a female, and has never been held by a female in her own right.

Another recent example of this is Queen Elizabeth II, who also never held the title of Princess of Wales. Females in Great Britain are considered "heirs presumptive", because they may be displaced by any future sons born to the sovereign. They are never considered "heirs apparent".

I suppose before investiture as Prince of Wales, the heir of the monarch could be termed the "Crown Prince", but I don't believe that term has ever had popular use in Britain.

[HM Queen Catherine]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

That was part of my idea: if it is politically opportunate, could the Welsh Assembly ask the new king to keep his title of Prince of Wales or could parliament in London declare that Charles still holds the title of Prince of Wales in addition to being king of the UK?

The title of Prince of Wales must be created for each male heir to the throne, because if the heir subsequently inherits and becomes Sovereign, the title then merges with the Crown. From that point forward, the title invested in the man who is now monarch ceases to exist. There is no further Prince of Wales until it is invested in the next male heir.

This title is in the gift of the Sovereign and may only be granted by the Sovereign. It is held separate from any inheritable titles of the heir, precisely because the title is destined to merge with the Crown, and the investiture reserves the special status of Wales within Great Britain. Even if a Prince of Wales dies without becoming King, the title goes back to the Crown, and may only be re-invested as the gift of the reigning Sovereign.

If, for instance, Prince Charles pre-deceases the Queen, then the title "Prince of Wales" would have to be re-created for Prince William, even though he is currently known as Prince William of Wales. There is a distinction between being a "prince of Wales" and "The Prince of Wales". Officially, Charles is HRH The Prince Charles, The Prince of Wales. If and when William is invested, he will be HRH The Prince William, The Prince of Wales.

It is also important to remember that females, even if they are the next in line to the throne, may not be invested in the Prince of Wales title.

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

It really is not important if there is a duke of "York" or "Edinburgh" or "Gloucester" as there is no duchy and never was historically.

That depends on your meaning that these titles were never duchies historically. A peerage was originally considered to be a landed title, from which the holder can derive or collect income, and has authority over the people living in his landed estates.

The Duchy of York was first created in 1385, and was a landed dukedom until it merged with the Crown in 1461, when the holder became Edward IV. There have also been several Earls of York in medieval times. Since 1461, it has traditionally been the title for the second son of the Sovereign.

The Duchy of Gloucester was also first created in 1385, and was a landed dukedom. The first three dukes all died without issue, and afterwards it was considered unlucky, and was not granted again for 150 years.

The Duchy of Edinburgh has existed since 1726, and to all intents and purposes, is not a dukedom in the sense of the two others, however, it was supposedly a source of income for the initial holders of the title.

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

But there was a principality of Wales like there was a kingdom of England and one of Scotland.

This is quite true, there was a Principality of Wales, but there were very few men that were actually "Prince of Wales" and recognized by the English Crown. The principality was divided into several separate kingdoms, and each had their own prince - the Prince of Gwynedd, for example.

Prior to the Norman Conquest, the most powerful Welsh ruler of any given time was known as "King of the Britons". In the 12th and 13th centuries, the title evolved to that of Prince of Wales.

The last native Prince of Wales was Owain Glydwr, who was proclaimed Prince in 1400. His short reign ended in 1409.

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

But what about Wales? At the moment Wales is treated as a conquered country who was included into England. While I don't believe that Wales and the UK will go their separate ways in the near future, it would be a nice gesture by Charles to declare himself the heir of the Welsh princes by keeping his title, and not behave as the heir of their conquerors.

Unfortunately, Wales is a conquered country, just like Ireland, and Ireland never even had a special designation. The Sovereign, of course was known as the Lord of Ireland until the time of Henry VIII. Prior to that, the country was under the guardianship of the Pope. When Henry broke away from the Catholic Church, he declared himself King of Ireland, as did subsequent monarchs. But for the Irish, there has never been a "Prince of Ireland" as there has been a Prince of Wales.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain consists of England, Scotland and Wales. Even if there were a Welsh Parliament, I doubt they would request that the Prince of Wales keep his title after becoming King. And I doubt the British Parliament would overturn centuries of tradition, even if such a request were made.

The special status of Wales is that they "hold the heir of the Crown", and they do so exclusively. The Prince of Wales is not the Crown Prince of Scotland, nor is does he hold a title in Northern Ireland. Hereditarily speaking, he doesn't hold an Irish title at all.

At least with Wales, they have their own Crown Jewels, which are separate from the Crown, and known as the Honours of the Principality of Wales. Wales has historically retained its special status within the kingdom of Great Britain, and likely will continue to do so.

[Warren]

The discussion of the Duke of Edinburgh title has been moved to the Royal Dukes and Ducal Titles thread.

[branchg]

Wales does not exclusively hold the heir of the Crown. The British heir and eldest son is also Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Prince & Great Lord Steward in Scotland, reflecting the title and historical styles of the heir to the Scottish throne. In England, he is Duke of Cornwall as the duchy's revenues and lands are exclusively reserved for the heir to the throne.

The title "Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester" reflects the bestowing of the lands to the King's son after being conquered in 1301. While it is accompanied by historical tension and sensitivities of sovereignty, it is inextrictably tied with a United Kingdom of England, Wales and Scotland.

The tradition of bestowing the title to the heir will continue unless Parliament agrees to grant Wales special status separate from the State as represented by the Crown. Not likely to happen.

[RoyalistRiley]

I think Jo of Palatine has the right idea - the Prince of Wales should reflect their position in the country, not be just another title. The creation of a separate Prince of Walesor Prince of Scotland would be similar to how the Queen reigns separately as Queen of the UK to Queen of Australia, Queen of Canada, Queen of New Zealand etc, while it would also serve as a reminder of Wales's former status as a principality.