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  #81  
Old 05-21-2014, 04:28 PM
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I feel the comment was legitimate and there was nothing wrong with Charles saying it. The world allowed Hitler to have the Sudetenland thinking that would appease him and keep him at bay. As we now know, that did not work.

Every time Hitler's name is mentioned people freak out, sometimes rightfully so. But in this case it was appropriately used.
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  #82  
Old 05-21-2014, 05:54 PM
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The CBC's behaved itself fairly well the lest few days, but of course they couldn't resist latching onto this and making much more of it than necessary. Somehow the tweet of one insignificant Labour MP suddenly represents to voice of the British political establishment on this matter.
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  #83  
Old 05-21-2014, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess of Durham View Post
...Every time Hitler's name is mentioned people freak out, sometimes rightfully so. But in this case it was appropriately used.
It was appropriately used - Charles was comparing Putin's actions in the Crimea to Hitler's in the Sudetenland.

I think there are a few problems with the comment, or at least with the reaction.

First there's the fact that it was made to a woman who is related to holocaust victims. When you have a headline of "Prince Charles compares Putin to Hitler to the Family of Holocaust Victims" the go to thought isn't that he's making a comment about foreign invasions.

Secondly, comparing people to Hitler - however valid such a comparison might be - is such a loaded statement that there is no way things can go over well. There is a concept called Godwin's Law which states that the longer an online discussion goes on the more inevitable it is that someone or something will be compared to Hitler or Nazism. A corollary is that as soon as Hitler is mentioned the debate is over, and whoever mentioned Hitler has lost. Comparing people to Hitler is often counterproductive in that sense.

Thirdly, Charles is a man who is in line to be an apolitical head of state. For him to make ANY public comment about a foreign nation, its head of state, its policies, etc, when he's not speaking on behalf of the government(s) that he represents is hugely inappropriate. This isn't simply a blunder for the British, it's also a blunder for Canada. A member of the Canadian Royal family, the future head of state of Canada, while on an official engagement in Canada representing the current head of state went and made a comment comparing the head of state of another country (one that is actually fairly close to Canada, militarily better off than Canada, and has had a tense relationship with Canada in regards to Arctic sovereignty) to a man who is often considered to be the worst human being ever.

While I don't disagree with the comment and think it is an apt comparison, I do disagree with Charles' decision to make such a comment in public as saying such things is kind of contrary to his role.
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  #84  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by PetticoatLane View Post
...comments like that just make the job of the British government in its already fraught dealings with Russia even harder...
Bearing in mind Mr Putin's personal inadequacies have made him believe himself to be the best thing since the invention of vodka, I doubt very much he will care what a lowly person such as the heir to the British throne has to say. Accordingly, any current difficulties in the British government's dealings with Russia will remain as they are now.
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  #85  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:27 PM
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Future "apolitical" head of state of one of the free world's political institutions isn't allowed to freely comment about what is clearly tyrannical behaviour on the part of Putin. That doesn't exactly look all that great, either.

If you want something really controversial, how about the rambling denunciation of NATO and assertion that Canada, and Harper in particular, are non-entities in when it comes to international politics. This at a ceremony honouring those who fought in "defense" of the Stalinist regime. A ceremony that took place on Canadian soil.

Also, HRH made a joke today about maybe not living long enough to return to Canada. I don't follow him all that closely so I'm not sure what kind of remarks he's made about his own mortality. I know many people do this - I do it from time to time - but still it was a bit saddening to hear; maybe the supposed "controversy" is gnawing away at him.

Also it would be the height of hypocrisy if he were to publicly claim to be offended - the kind of drivel that apparently airs on Russian TV about nuking America into a "radioactive wasteland" etc. I don't think people in the west realize how much Soviet propaganda still influences the Russian people's opinions of the west - even the younger generations. They simply don't like us. Which is why they persist in waging a cyber war against us.
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  #86  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:31 PM
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The journalist in question - Rebecca English of the Daily Mail, was asked directly on twitter whether this was a private conversation. She categorically denied that it was.

I have just watched the News on BBC and it shows that she was hiding behind a pillar (she was highlighted by the BBC news) listening in to the conversation between PoW and a woman seated at a table.

This is low-life journalism.

That said, as main stream politocs in UK have said, he is entitled to his opinion.

From the BBC about what royals can or cannot say - v interesting

BBC News - Who, What, Why: What can and can't British Royal Family members say?
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  #87  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Durham View Post
I feel the comment was legitimate and there was nothing wrong with Charles saying it. The world allowed Hitler to have the Sudetenland thinking that would appease him and keep him at bay. As we now know, that did not work.

Every time Hitler's name is mentioned people freak out, sometimes rightfully so. But in this case it was appropriately used.
You have a full right to agree with Prince Charles. The world allowed the enlightened democratic regimes to carry questionable crusades in the recent past. It would be fair to say that Mr Putin is used to be slated by holier-than-thou western media lackeys.
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  #88  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:17 PM
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I bet those who are responsible for minding Charles and Putin at the D-day ceremony are sweating. They'll be working overtime to make sure those two are kept apart.
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  #89  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:20 PM
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Words are being put into Princes Charles' mouth.
It does not appear that it was Prince Charles who mentioned Hitler but the woman.

Note the change in wording with each telling.


From
BBC News - Who, What, Why: What can and can't British Royal Family members say?
Marienne Ferguson, a former Polish war refugee, was showing Prince Charles around a museum in Nova Scotia, Canada. They were discussing Hitler's takeover of countries, and the prince said "something to the effect of 'it's not unlike…what Putin is doing'",


From
Prince Charles 'Compares Putin To Hitler'

Charles was being shown around the Museum of Immigration in Halifax, Nova Scotia, along with Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall.

The royal couple paid tribute to World War Two veterans and their families, and during the course of the visit they spoke to museum volunteer Marianne Ferguson.

Ms Ferguson told the Prince she fled to Canada with her family in 1939, not long before Hitler annexed the Baltic coastal Free City of Gdansk.
After meeting Charles, the 78-year-old told the Daily Mail: "The Prince said 'And now Putin is doing just about the same as Hitler'.
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  #90  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I bet those who are responsible for minding Charles and Putin at the D-day ceremony are sweating. They'll be working overtime to make sure those two are kept apart.
they have never been scheduled to meet each other. Reported today (Putin with Heads of State I assume). Tho what the Normandy beaches have to do with Russia ....... They had their own tough battles to fight,
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  #91  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Words are being put into Princes Charles' mouth.
It does not appear that it was Prince Charles who mentioned Hitler but the woman...
Facts, mere facts. Irrelevant. Those who want to blow this up into an international incident will do so regardless of the facts about the words that were spoken, and the truth of them.
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  #92  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:34 PM
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they have never been scheduled to meet each other. Reported today (Putin with Heads of State I assume). Tho what the Normandy beaches have to do with Russia ....... They had their own tough battles to fight,
The D Day per se had nothing to do with the Soviet Union. President Hollande invited President Putin to attend celebrations. The invitation has not been declined. President Putin is said to meet with Chancellor Merkel and President Obama. He will have to endure Prince Charles for a short period of time.
Putin to meet Obama, Merkel at WWII Normandy landing anniversary in France ? RT News
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  #93  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:48 PM
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Who brought up Hitler isn't the big thing here. Given the circumstances of the event, Hitler being brought up was probably very natural.
Who brought up Putin is a different matter. That's where it gets tricky and it does seem like it was Charles who did that, not the woman.
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  #94  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontario Royalist View Post
...If you want something really controversial, how about the rambling denunciation of NATO and assertion that Canada, and Harper in particular, are non-entities in when it comes to international politics...

Also, HRH made a joke today about maybe not living long enough to return to Canada...
I'm not familiar with either incident here, can you provide links?
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  #95  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:50 PM
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Storm in a teacup; not an international incident; Putin will carry on carrying on and so will Charles. Circulation battle amongst tabloids.
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  #96  
Old 05-21-2014, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ontario Royalist View Post
Also it would be the height of hypocrisy if he were to publicly claim to be offended - the kind of drivel that apparently airs on Russian TV about nuking America into a "radioactive wasteland" etc. I don't think people in the west realize how much Soviet propaganda still influences the Russian people's opinions of the west - even the younger generations. They simply don't like us. Which is why they persist in waging a cyber war against us.

Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right though.

No one is saying Putin is a good person or that the situation in Russia is ideal. What's going on there is far from ideal and is, for the west, a very tense and fraught political situation. People handling such situations badly is really what caused World War One, and we don't need to repeat that.

Putin is not, by Western standards, a good leader. Russia is not, by those same standards, a good country. What they're doing in the Crimea is also not good. And for regular joes like us, it is completely acceptable and valid to make comparisons between the current state of Russia and previous totalitarian, agressive states.

It is appropriate for politically involved people and world leaders to make similar comments in private as well. It is not appropriate for them to make such comments in public - regardless of who brought up Hitler or Putin or what not. To do so on that level is just to risk bating an already unpredictable state into a fight - a fight that it's really debatable if we should enter into. Charles making comments that have been overheard, and thus can be misquoted, misrepresented, misunderstood, and really aren't polite in the best of light, just adds to an already bad situation.
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  #97  
Old 05-21-2014, 08:11 PM
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Can I point you in the direction of my post #86 where a constititional expert gives the following opinion.

"All of the Queen's public speeches and actions are taken on advice from ministers, says constitutional expert Vernon Bogdanor. But other royals, including the heir to the throne, are not bound by any rules. In practice, Prince Charles shows his speeches to ministers before delivery, Bogdanor says. And the convention is that senior royals should not embarrass the Queen in either public or private statements. The key unwritten rule is to avoid party politics. Bogdanor argues that the prince's Putin remark did not overstep the mark. "It reflects a consensus among all the main parties. The comment is controversial rather than anodyne. But it is not party political."

What newspapers say (circulation boost) and "pundits" (earn some money) is not expert opinion. Vernon Bogdanor is.
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  #98  
Old 05-21-2014, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ontario Royalist View Post
Also it would be the height of hypocrisy if he were to publicly claim to be offended - the kind of drivel that apparently airs on Russian TV about nuking America into a "radioactive wasteland" etc. I don't think people in the west realize how much Soviet propaganda still influences the Russian people's opinions of the west - even the younger generations. They simply don't like us. Which is why they persist in waging a cyber war against us.
Subjects and citizens in the enlightened western regimes are still affected by and parrot the Cold War propaganda. Russians, Kazakhs, and other nationalities of the former USSR are more worldly than Europeans. They read information from local news sites and international ones.
The pearl-clutching is pathetic.
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  #99  
Old 05-21-2014, 08:32 PM
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No role for NATO in ending Ukraine's crisis, Russian envoy says
No role for NATO in ending Ukraine's crisis, Russian envoy says - The Globe and Mail

Russia | Embassy - Canada's Foreign Policy Newspaper

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I'm not familiar with either incident here, can you provide links?
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  #100  
Old 05-21-2014, 08:34 PM
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That was good for a chuckle. Made my day, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Subjects and citizens in the enlightened western regimes are still affected by and parrot the Cold War propaganda. Russians, Kazakhs, and other nationalities of the former USSR are more worldly than Europeans. They read information from local news sites and international ones.
The pearl-clutching is pathetic.
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