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  #21  
Old 11-02-2016, 10:06 PM
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Last year, as part of articles commemorating Queen Elizabeth becoming the longest reigning monarch, the Daily Mail re-ran articles it published in previous decades. In1979 they did an article on women Charles dated.

Quote:
The decade she became the People's Queen: Silver Jubilee celebrations as Charles looks for a wife, the historic news stories of our record-breaking monarch in the 1970s


1979: Which Charlie's Angel will be Queen? Our legendary diarist asks which of the Prince's many girls will end up a Princess
The Prince of Wales must marry — but who?
P.S. I know that we are trying to limit the Diana discussion but this is the closing sentence of the write up on Diana's sister Sarah.

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Lady Sarah has a 17-year-old sister tipped to be a heartbreaker. Her name is Diana.
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  #22  
Old 11-03-2016, 09:06 PM
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Georgiana Russell was one of Prince Charles' girlfriends. She was the daughter of Sir John Russell. Sir John had been a British Ambassador to Brazil. Charles first met Georgiana at Arundel in 1970.
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  #23  
Old 11-06-2016, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
Nope sorry, that one is false. Ch never met Marie Astrid let alone express any interest in marrying her. It was made up by Buck House to see who was leaking stories to the papers.
Gosh you seem to know your sources! Who are you?!
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  #24  
Old 11-06-2016, 11:06 AM
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Prince Charles.
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  #25  
Old 11-06-2016, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Prince Charles.


Of course! Silly me! Who else! .....
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  #26  
Old 11-06-2016, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
Nope sorry, that one is false. Ch never met Marie Astrid let alone express any interest in marrying her. It was made up by Buck House to see who was leaking stories to the papers.
I can not imagine the royal household abusing the absolutely spotless Marie-Astrid de Luxembourg, de Nassau, de Bourbon de Parme from a respected and befriended House by using her as a dummy to find leaks. Come on. Utmost unlikely and impossible.
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  #27  
Old 11-06-2016, 04:04 PM
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it was quite widely reported at the time; i remember reading it here in NZ.
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  #28  
Old 11-06-2016, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I can not imagine the royal household abusing the absolutely spotless Marie-Astrid de Luxembourg, de Nassau, de Bourbon de Parme from a respected and befriended House by using her as a dummy to find leaks. Come on. Utmost unlikely and impossible.
Gosh, is she really that precious?! Hmm
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  #29  
Old 11-06-2016, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I can not imagine the royal household abusing the absolutely spotless Marie-Astrid de Luxembourg, de Nassau, de Bourbon de Parme from a respected and befriended House by using her as a dummy to find leaks. Come on. Utmost unlikely and impossible.
The Windsors have no respect for anyone who isn't in charge of a kingdom and Protestant. Look at the multiple snubs to the Grimaldis they have dished out over the years. Lux is a only a grand duchy and catholic to boot so it was fair game as far as the Palace was concerned.
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  #30  
Old 11-06-2016, 10:21 PM
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Snubs of the grimaldis? And when have they been subdue to Catholics or other monarchies?
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  #31  
Old 11-07-2016, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
The Windsors have no respect for anyone who isn't in charge of a kingdom and Protestant. Look at the multiple snubs to the Grimaldis they have dished out over the years. Lux is a only a grand duchy and catholic to boot so it was fair game as far as the Palace was concerned.
That's not true about Luxembourg being snubbed because they're Catholic. Grand Duke Jean served with the Irish Guards, I believe, in WWII and for many years attended the Guard's Ceremonies. He and Grand Duchess Josephine-Charlotte were invited to many of the Queen's official celebrations as has now Grand Duchess Henri and Maria Teresa. Grand Duke Jean and Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte attended Charles and Diana's wedding. In Febr. 1981 the Duke of Edinburgh attended the wedding Henri and Maria Teresa. I think Andrew represented his mother at Josephine Charlotte's funeral. I don't think the British Royals have "snubbed" Luxembourg because it's only a Grand Duchy and Catholic.
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  #32  
Old 11-07-2016, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
The Windsors have no respect for anyone who isn't in charge of a kingdom and Protestant. Look at the multiple snubs to the Grimaldis they have dished out over the years. Lux is a only a grand duchy and catholic to boot so it was fair game as far as the Palace was concerned.
Maybe its just me but if its Charles we're talking about here, I don't think I've heard of any other heir to the throne that is more respecting of other faiths than he is. He is the man reputed to want to change "Defender of the Faith" to "Defender of Faith" according to rumor.

Although I do believe it was done out of tradition and respect for tradition, when Prince Ernest August of Hanover wanted to marry Caroline (Grimaldi) of Monaco in 1999, he formally asked the Queen's permission to marry. No kingdom here and Caroline is Catholic but the tradition still stood.
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  #33  
Old 11-07-2016, 04:31 AM
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I was speaking in general. Although some individual members of the catholic families can have good relations with the RF, as a general rule the relations are poor. The grimaldi-Windsor relations have improved over the past 20 years but for a long time they weren't invited to major royal events and protocol was often jogged to avoid the awkward fact that under standard etiquette the late Rainer would take precedent over the queen. Relations between the Windsors and the Belgian RF have been very poor since WWII and still are. They did not like the other catholic families like the orleans, Habsburg and savoia. The exceptions are the Spanish RF and that was because of the mountbatten and glucksburg connection, and luxembourg so you guys are correct on that one so i apologise but i stand by my comment about the windsors relations with the catholic families overall.

The palace grey men were the ones who made up the Marie Astrid story and just picked her as she was from a country most people in the UK could not find on a map and a family who were regarded as being too obscure to object.
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  #34  
Old 11-07-2016, 05:08 AM
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I see the point that you're making and as I'm not that informed about past relations between the Windsors and other principalities and/or Catholic monarchies, I'm going to take your word for it on this.

I always thought though that the relationship between the Windsors and the Belgian RF was a pretty good one as normally as a rule, the Queen does not attend the funerals or weddings for other monarchies but when King Baudouin passed, she made an exception and attended his funeral. I can understand though a frosty relationship with King Albert of the Belgians as I don't hold an overly high opinion of the man myself.

Thanks for creating thought provoking threads that are a joy to come to read and learn and participate in. Its appreciated on this end.
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  #35  
Old 11-07-2016, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
protocol was often jogged to avoid the awkward fact that under standard etiquette the late Rainer would take precedent over the queen.
Surely Majesties outrank Serene Highnesses, length of reign notwithstanding?
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  #36  
Old 11-07-2016, 06:51 AM
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Nowadays, all the monarchies and principauties are invited to big royal events as the festivities of the reigning of HM Queen Elizabeth but in the years 1950 to 1980, BRF did not invite all the monarchies to the weddings of their families.
From 1940 to 1963, there were no relations between BRF and Belgium monarchy, the king Leopold of Belgium and his second wife Lilian could not forget that Churchill and the royal family said that Leopold had a bad behaviour during the second war, King Baudoin did not attend the funeral of Geoeges IV, but after the wedding of the King Baudoin, the royal couple of Belgium turned the page and came to an official visit , I think that the Queen came to the funerals for the behaviour of King Baudoin for this gesture.
For the grimaldi, when Rainier married Grace Kelly who was an actress of Holliwood, no royals come to the wedding of the prince , at that time an actress was not well estimed in the monarchies. But the behaviour of P Grace who was more royal than the other princesses, Prince Rainier was a very serious prince of a small principauty, the couple was strongand little by little the princely couple was invited to the big britrish events.
In the years 1980 90 , there were a lot of divorces in the royal families in the BRF, three children of the queen had scandals and they divorced, divorced wife, single woman with a child , commoners wifes married in the 'main big royal families'
BRF could not snub the other families, it had the same problems inside the family than the others.
I saw in a documentary about the principauty of Monaco, the letter that the english ambassador gave to Albert, we could read that the quenn called the Prince Albert ' dear cousin'

Apart all this, the royal families do not search a ' correct wife for the heir' , the crown princes do not want marry a wife that they don't love, it is finish , they marry the wifes of their country.

But the british family goes on to stay apart sometimes , no british royal came to the funerals of queen Fabiola, after the death of Diana when he was again single man, Charles attended with his brother P Edward the weddings of the heirs of other monarchies, now he did not attend anymore to the weddings or enthronments and so, the couple Edward and Sophie are attending the royal events in other monarchies.
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  #37  
Old 11-07-2016, 07:16 AM
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With this topic of discussing who may have been the best "royal bride" before Diana came along and discounting Charles' relationship with Camilla Parker Bowles, I think we're getting some really good insights into just how things were changing as far as who would have been the ideal bride for Charles during that time period of the 1970s. World War II was still very much alive in the memories of people at that time and it was that generation of powers that be that remembered them best for the most part and acted accordingly.

Sometimes traditions and ingrained habits and beliefs are the hardest and the last things to change and I realized this the other day talking with hubby. I'm nearing 65 and hubby will be 70 in January (on the same day no less) and I found it quite interesting that he'll still refer to the refrigerator as an "icebox" while simultaneously asking me to look up a hockey score on NHL.com.

As the phrase "icebox" dies out with my generation because no one alive then would ever have experienced an "icebox" or had parents or grandparents that actually owned one, so will the mindset of monarchies and principalities and republics change in their ways of looking at things.
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  #38  
Old 11-07-2016, 07:23 PM
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To return to the original topic, from the mid 70's on and especially the late 70's the press, main and the tabloids in particular, decided Charles was getting on in age and that he needed to settle down. There were an absolute frenzy to link him with any European Princess or English aristocrat if he was even pictured looking at such a young woman. I don't know the story about the planting of the Marie-Astrid as a potential girlfriend so as to catch the press, but she was and is a very lovely woman who was a Royal acquaintance with Charles, but both were aware of the "rules" of the British Monarchy that the press should have known also.
I'm being flippant, but at that time Charles could have been photographed walking with Princess Grace on his arm and their heads down in conversation and the tabloids especially would have had screaming headlines about Grace leaving Rainier and Monaco, converting to Anglican, to marry Charles. It's ridiculous of course, but that's the frenzy the press was in.
Harry is going through the frenzy now as his father went through.
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  #39  
Old 11-07-2016, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I always thought though that the relationship between the Windsors and the Belgian RF was a pretty good one as normally as a rule, the Queen does not attend the funerals or weddings for other monarchies but when King Baudouin passed, she made an exception and attended his funeral. I can understand though a frosty relationship with King Albert of the Belgians as I don't hold an overly high opinion of the man myself. .
The Queen did not want to go to Baudouin's funeral and the F/O only got her to agree after it was made clear that all the other reinging monarchs would be attending and that a snub like that would not be easily lived down. The fact that Philip couldn't even be arsed to wear the correct order to the funeral (he wore one that was for the Congo - an easy enough mistake As they have similar names but it still stood out like a sore thumb in he pictures) says it all. The relations between Britain and Belgium need to be good given the traditional U.K. Interest in the low counties on grounds of geopolitics but there is a lot of bad blood between the two RF's over what happens to Leopold 3 in WWII and all the spats and counter spats that followed.

But returning to topic - it did get crazy about Ch in ge 70s and was far worse than what William had to endure. Knowing what we know of Ch now it must have been very tough esp compared to some of his relatives and colleagues on the continent.

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Originally Posted by Minister of Court View Post
Surely Majesties outrank Serene Highnesses, length of reign notwithstanding?
Actually no, depending on country precedence can be done on length of reign not rank, so by that logic Rainer could have been allowed to go first on the pudding queue over Elizabeth despite the descripency of rank. Also precedence based on age of the dynasty's possession of the crown can also be the decider and under that system R could have gone ahead over E as well as the Grimamdis have ruled Monaco for longer than the Hannovers/Cobugs/Windsors have reigned in the U.K.
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  #40  
Old 11-07-2016, 10:52 PM
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Yes, but the Hanoverian Kings had a direct ancestral link from the Stuarts and through them to the Tudors, (Margaret Tudor and James IV of Scotland,) dynasty name changes or no. (The Queen's ancestry has been traced back to the Anglo Saxon kings.)
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