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  #41  
Old 08-14-2008, 03:50 PM
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There are no clear answers...

Having read the debates on bbc.co.uk and telegraph.co.uk and lacking detailed knowledge/information about pros and cons of GM crops, it appears to me that the biggest concern stems from the following. Food stocks in the form of seeds might be controlled by a particular big corporation (Monsanto, I believe). The more viable concern is related to unknown dangers associated with mutation.
It is impossible for humans to return to clean seeds and cattle as they were centuries ago. Personally I believe that even organic food is not purely, but relatively organic. The logical solution to this issue is research. Yet again it depends who pays for this research: organic farmers or big corporations. Well, it seems to be a vicious circle without simple direct answers.
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  #42  
Old 08-14-2008, 04:38 PM
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´Royal support ´ from the Guardian...
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Graham Harvey: Prince Charles is right to attack intensive farming
Royal but essentially right
August 14

Whatever the merits of Prince Charles' invective against GM crops, intensive agriculture is to blame for the food crisis

(...) Nevertheless, Prince Charles is to be applauded for raising these issues: he deserves a pat on the on the back for speaking up.

Graham Harvey: Prince Charles is right to attack intensive farming | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
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  #43  
Old 08-15-2008, 01:46 AM
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Prince meets young gardeners
August 15

Prince Charles joined animals and youngsters to celebrate Garden Organic's 50th anniversay in Ryton-on-Dunsmore.

Prince meets young gardeners - Leamington Spa Today - Back to Home Page
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  #44  
Old 08-16-2008, 01:23 AM
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Royal rebel
August 16

Royal rebel Prince Charles's outburst against GM foods was mocked as an unscientific rant. But do his views deserve to be derided as green-ink ravings, or is he a green hero for our times?

Ros Coward: Royal rebel, Prince Charles | UK news | The Guardian
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  #45  
Old 08-16-2008, 01:38 AM
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I think he's being unrealistic. While he's correct that locally produced food is a good thing, the world population is to large to not have industrialised farming and probably also GM foods.
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  #46  
Old 08-16-2008, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by milla Ca View Post
´Royal support ´ from the Guardian...
_______________
Graham Harvey: Prince Charles is right to attack intensive farming
Royal but essentially right
August 14

Whatever the merits of Prince Charles' invective against GM crops, intensive agriculture is to blame for the food crisis

(...) Nevertheless, Prince Charles is to be applauded for raising these issues: he deserves a pat on the on the back for speaking up.

Graham Harvey: Prince Charles is right to attack intensive farming | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
Oh my! And here I was thinking that the age of miracles had passed!

I really feel incredibly proud to know that he is my future King. I know we have a world-wide shortage of food but there are miriad reasons for this. They include drought, war, and the move from food to fuel crops instead of oil.

Darfur starves while the government of Sudan exports almost as much food as the aid agencies bring in. Call it callous indifference on the part of all those in a position of power. Both those that sell and those that buy.

Prince Charles is sounding the alarm bells, and me, I can't forget that they called him a harmless idiot with a penchant for talking to cabbage when he expounded on the virtues of Organic Farming over 20 years ago. I also realise that he is dining out in fine style on their arrogance, or to put it bluntly, he who laughs last, laughs longest.
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  #47  
Old 08-16-2008, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
I think he's being unrealistic. While he's correct that locally produced food is a good thing, the world population is to large to not have industrialised farming and probably also GM foods.
If there is not enough food people will starve. Will a starving person refuse GM foods? Will GM foods feed the starving?
We have a property in a small village where the cottagers have produced enough for their own needs for thousands of years, when there is frost or an unusual amount of rain they have to buy......or borrow or anything.
Starvation is not that far away when we see how the world population is growing - if science can feed this population I am all for it. I saw Biafra on the TV and I have heard about the fail of the potato crops in Ireland when people were eating grass and dying.
It is frightening.
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  #48  
Old 08-16-2008, 07:39 AM
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We don't know what GM crops might do to other crops or to the myriad of eco systems. Too many times we have heard from governments and scientists 'it is safe', they told us humans could not be affected by Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy, how wrong they were! Thalidimide is another that springs to mind. GM will not help the starving, they are not going to give the seeds or technology away, they generate too much profit to consider that, Nor will GM crops help the people suffering because of failed crops due to lack of water. GM crops will not stop governments selling food and getting rich while their people starve, all they will do is put more money into the large companies, to ensure they don't starve!

It is not as if they will be produced in an enclosed environment, they will contaminate the foods of those that prefer not to eat genetically modified materials. Can the government/scientists guarantee that the organic foods many have spent a fortune setting up, will be unaffected?

From reading many of the different articles, it would appear that more than a few scientists don't believe it is a wise course to follow either!
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  #49  
Old 08-16-2008, 08:09 AM
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We don't know what GM crops might do to other crops or to the myriad of eco systems.
I keep on reading stories on how the bee population is disappearing around the world for several years. And the scientis can't figure why. There is a real panic at the speed of collapse of the colonies, and how that's affecting farming world wide. I can't help but wonder if GM crops played their part. So far, scientis haven't shown if bees are able to distinguish between GM seeded crops or natual ones. They are driven by instint to pollenize. Arteries don't clot overnight from a rich meal, it takes years of unbalanced diets and habits. Wouldn't that be the case for bees from getting GM pollens for years? We are the living study that Monsanto and its colleagues are basing their PRs on: until a death can be proven to be linked directly and exclusively to GM food, they can always claim their products to be safe. Just as no-one been able to prove what caused clotted arteries, like one specific culprit, the GM producers can feel safe to skip paying the retainers to their legal team.
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  #50  
Old 08-16-2008, 11:45 PM
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BBC NEWS | UK | Prince 'must prove anti-GM claim'

Prince Charles must prove his claim that GM crops could cause a global environmental disaster, Environment Minister Phil Woolas has challenged.

In an interview with the Sunday Telegraph, the minister said it is now down to the opponents of genetically modified food to prove it is unsafe.
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  #51  
Old 08-17-2008, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
If there is not enough food people will starve. Will a starving person refuse GM foods? Will GM foods feed the starving?
We have a property in a small village where the cottagers have produced enough for their own needs for thousands of years, when there is frost or an unusual amount of rain they have to buy......or borrow or anything.
Starvation is not that far away when we see how the world population is growing - if science can feed this population I am all for it. I saw Biafra on the TV and I have heard about the fail of the potato crops in Ireland when people were eating grass and dying.
It is frightening.
I fully share your opinion. Upon reading polemic in regard to Prince Charles' comments, I think that the human beings face the following dilemma: (1) find ways to decrease the population through strict birth control or (2) find ways to feed increasing population.
By the way, I do not believe in organic farming at the industrial scale.
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  #52  
Old 08-17-2008, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Incas View Post
I keep on reading stories on how the bee population is disappearing around the world for several years. And the scientis can't figure why. There is a real panic at the speed of collapse of the colonies, and how that's affecting farming world wide. I can't help but wonder if GM crops played their part. So far, scientis haven't shown if bees are able to distinguish between GM seeded crops or natual ones. They are driven by instint to pollenize. Arteries don't clot overnight from a rich meal, it takes years of unbalanced diets and habits. Wouldn't that be the case for bees from getting GM pollens for years? We are the living study that Monsanto and its colleagues are basing their PRs on: until a death can be proven to be linked directly and exclusively to GM food, they can always claim their products to be safe. Just as no-one been able to prove what caused clotted arteries, like one specific culprit, the GM producers can feel safe to skip paying the retainers to their legal team.
This year in Germany it has been proven that seeds which were protected by a Bayer Cropscience product against diseases were responisble for the death of virtually the whole bee population in the Oberrheinebene, the plain of the Rhine between Switzerland's Basel and Germany's Mainz/Frankfurt-area.

Here's a link to a German report: Bienensterben: Verbot für Pflanzen-Gift - DIE WELT - WELT ONLINE
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  #53  
Old 08-17-2008, 09:59 AM
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Woolas might do well to read some reports other than the government ones trying to tell us it is safe -

Prince Charles caused a stir this week with his strongest comments yet on GM food. But why? Farming editor STEVE DUBE investigates

Behind the headlines: GM food - WalesOnline

It’s not done the Americans any harm, has it?
Strangely enough, nobody knows because nobody is asking that question, although we do know that American life expectancy is getting shorter and more Americans are dying early from food-related problems. But some scientists have tried to ask questions. Take the mysterious case of Arpad Pusztai

-------------------
Yet wasn't it science, hand in hand with business, which solved the oil crisis by turning all our pastures over to biofuels? Which then proved useless and hastened the food shortage - Of course Prince Charles is childishly suspicious of GM foods, but the public position is one of healthy scepticism. We do not know what the consequences will be. Not even the superior scientists and rationalists know exactly.

Sarah Sands: Charles: the voice of the ordinary, sceptical Brit - Sarah Sands, Commentators - The Independent
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  #54  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:03 AM
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This year in Germany it has been proven that seeds which were protected by a Bayer Cropscience product against diseases were responisble for the death of virtually the whole bee population in the Oberrheinebene, the plain of the Rhine between Switzerland's Basel and Germany's Mainz/Frankfurt-area.

Here's a link to a German report: Bienensterben: Verbot für Pflanzen-Gift - DIE WELT - WELT ONLINE
Considering the GM planting that is normal in the US, perhaps this is the answer to their declining Bee population and without Bee's.....!
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  #55  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:29 AM
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....there'll be no birds?
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  #56  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:49 AM
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....there'll be no birds?
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  #57  
Old 08-17-2008, 11:12 AM
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....there'll be no birds?
Aren't we all birds in a way?
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  #58  
Old 08-17-2008, 01:44 PM
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A remarkable article from The Guardian, viewing Prince Charles' statements in perspective:
Nick Cohen: Charles, a very modern Marie Antoinette | Comment is free | The Observer
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  #59  
Old 08-17-2008, 02:14 PM
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A remarkable article from The Guardian, viewing Prince Charles' statements in perspective:
I don't think I would label this article, 'in perspective', it is a rant by the republican he is. Whilst bleating about the poor needing this technology or non organic food, he forgets to address the fact that there is no shortage of food in the UK, if the government sticks to it's U turn on bio fuels!

Nobody is stopping the poorer countries from growing GM foods, but I fail to see the significance of the starving in Africa with a field of Wheat in Britain.
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he sees the poor as happiest when they have their place in a natural order, with royalty at its head.
And how did he come to this conclusion?
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but Prince Charles was adamant that today's poor should eat organic
No, he believes they should be entitled to eat a natural product rather than one that has been Genetically Modified or at the very least be allowed to make the choice themselves.
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  #60  
Old 08-17-2008, 02:51 PM
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No, he believes they should be entitled to eat a natural product rather than one that has been Genetically Modified or at the very least be allowed to make the choice themselves.
I second that: thinking that all people on this earth should have a right to eat the food that is best for them should not have anything to do with who you are: there have been Royal Saints before! And I don't write this as a joke, just as a comment that before Charles other Royals have been good people!
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