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  #61  
Old 02-25-2006, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
But now for Charles and Camilla, surprisingly that is starting to change a bit. And as Elspeth and I noticed, the most surprising development is that Tony Blair has come out defending Charles. Blair is not the type of politician to say or do anything if it wasn't in Tony Blair's own best interests to do so, whatever he might privately think of Charles, so for him to come out and speak for Charles is highly significant.

It's an interesting turn of events.
It is amazing how ordinary Brits will fight to guard their privacy and will be vocal in defending the privacy of others. On one of the other non royal discussion groups I read, the majority out of the 400+ responses have been in support of Charles' right to privacy.

As for Tony, he is desperate that when he becomes Sir Tony, HRH doesnt slip and cut his head off.
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  #62  
Old 02-25-2006, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
...The government does not see a problem, immediate or otherwise, so why would they decide to strip the monarch of her purely symbolic duties. The monarch has no say in how the country is run, (sadly), in the first place. What are they going to do, say 'you can't open parliament'?
Unfortunately, Skydragon, that's a start. The match to fire up a strong pro-republic movement to take strenght. And you and I probably don't want to see that ever happen. Prince Charles needs to be in touch and pay more attention to the people he has (?) as public relation agents. Image is everything whether you are a royal, a politician running for office, a sports figure or a celebrity in general. If his actions tarnish that image a little then all the king's horses and all the king's men could not put the House of Windsor together again!

9:34 am over here: I got to get going and start the weekend duties, I'll stop back tonight.
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  #63  
Old 02-25-2006, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
Unfortunately, Skydragon, that's a start. The match to fire up a strong pro-republic movement to take strenght. And you and I probably don't want to see that ever happen. Prince Charles needs to be in touch and pay more attention to the people he has (?) as public relation agents. Image is everything whether you are a royal, a politician running for office, a sports figure or a celebrity in general. If his actions tarnish that image a little and all the king's horses and all the king's men can't put the House of Windsor together again!
I think the general concensus is that he has significantly enhanced his image, ordinary people, who elect mp's and Blair, feel that Charles is speaking out for them.
Luckily Charles did listen when he was finally warned that Goodall and Bolland were 'snakes in the grass' but, as I said, it is very difficult in this country to dismiss someone.
I feel that Charles had to take a stand against allowing the press to publish his private thoughts and win or lose, he has already won the hearts and minds of many who have, in the past been maligned by the press.
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  #64  
Old 02-25-2006, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
I think the general concensus is that he has significantly enhanced his image, ordinary people, who elect mp's and Blair, feel that Charles is speaking out for them.
Well I don't know if Tony Blair thinks Charles speaks out for him; but its interesting he came out in defense of him. The monarchy has been cut down more under Blair than any other prime minister including Thatcher who the Queen did not get along with.

It looks like Blair's best interest would be in cutting down Charles' reputation so that he can assume more power but somehow with this incident, he decided it wasn't in his best interest.

I would agree with you that Charles' reputation has been enhanced regarding his opnions. When he and Camilla toured the U.S. several reports mentioned that Charles' ideas that a few years ago seemed so far fetched and not in touch with the real world had been adopted more and more. His concerns with architecture, organic farming, environment are the same concerns of some powerful groups in several countries.

I don't think more acceptance worldwide of organic farming, etc. is all because of Charles but he is gaining grudging respect of being on the cusp of some important movements. The reception he got in California was less because of his royal status than it was because the people there who do take these issues seriously considered him one of their own.
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  #65  
Old 02-25-2006, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
Prince Charles needs to be in touch and pay more attention to the people he has (?) as public relation agents.
Actually I would say Charles is more in touch now with other people's opinions than he ever has been before. His statements about the Chinese takeover of Hong Kong was nothing I hadn't heard from people that were over there at the time.

And as I mentioned above some of his zany ideas have (surprise, surprise) been adopted as a model of business in areas.

If Charles keeps going the way he's going, its going to be hard to accuse him of being out of touch.

Of course there is the question of whether he as a public person should be speaking about things like the Chinese takeover but he wasn't making a public statement here. At least, for the time being, my only suggestion would be to type up his thoughts in email and send them himself. Then he doesn't have to depend on the scruples (or lack thereof) of his employees.
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  #66  
Old 02-25-2006, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Prince Charles needs to be in touch and pay more attention to the people he has (?) as public relation agents
Most people in Britain were sad that Hong Kong had gone. The Government may have put on a happy face and made out that we didn't care - but for most, it was the end of the great Britannia we'd revelled in. So he was paying attention to the people - he agreed with them and he said his piece.
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  #67  
Old 02-25-2006, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Well I don't know if Tony Blair thinks Charles speaks out for him;
When I wrote the following, I meant it to read that Charles speaks for the ordinary man. Blair and all mp's are elected by ordinary people.

"I think the general concensus is that he has significantly enhanced his image, ordinary people, who elect mp's and Blair, feel that Charles is speaking out for them".

Sorry for any misunderstanding Ysbel.:)
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  #68  
Old 02-25-2006, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Actually I would say Charles is more in touch now with other people's opinions than he ever has been before. His statements about the Chinese takeover of Hong Kong was nothing I hadn't heard from people that were over there at the time.
Many people watched the handover with trepidation for the people of Hong Kong, many of us also felt a twinge for the passing of an era.

Quote:
If Charles keeps going the way he's going, its going to be hard to accuse him of being out of touch.
I think it is the mp's who are out of touch. Take the millenium dome, (please) no one wanted it before it was built, no one wants it now. The Scottish parliament building that Scottish ministers congratulate themselves on, is a laughing stock. The modern paintings that only the experts can explain.
More and more people buying organic foods because we had forgotten what real produce tastes like.
The Princes Trust actually helps young people have a feeling of self worth that they certainly don't get when they apply to 'Enterprise Boards' (that tend to be corrupt), or their local job centre. How many businesses run by young people have any mp's set up (past and present).

Quote:
Of course there is the question of whether he as a public person should be speaking about things like the Chinese takeover but he wasn't making a public statement here. At least, for the time being, my only suggestion would be to type up his thoughts in email and send them himself. Then he doesn't have to depend on the scruples (or lack thereof) of his employees.
The prince does not have a computer, he believes that it is a much more personal touch if his letters are handwritten. I agree with him, it's wonderful to receive handwritten letters, even if they are photocopied, rather than the homogeneous impersonal printed variety.:)

None of this is a political statement, just trying to point out why Charles is IMO in touch with his people!
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  #69  
Old 02-25-2006, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Charles sent a few copies to close friends. Mark Bolland had a copy and gave it to the press.
He really needs to be careful. He shouldn't have done that - unfortunately he trusted Mark Bolland and he's stabbed him in the back. The Prince is intitled to his views. I kinda feel sorry for the BRF they always seem to be betrayed by their staff!!!
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  #70  
Old 02-25-2006, 04:51 PM
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Well, I think he thought he could trust his friends. He could, because they didnt leak it, it was Goodall and she obtained a copy illegally.
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  #71  
Old 02-25-2006, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Well, I think he thought he could trust his friends. He could, because they didnt leak it, it was Goodall and she obtained a copy illegally.
Well ideally Charles would have staff he could trust but as skydragon pointed out how difficult that can be (and I would tend to agree) the safest bet is to not let staff handle any information that he doesn't want let out.

skydragon, I agree with you that Charles doesn't like the impersonal feel of emails and handwritten notes are quite lovely. But a photocopy is not exactly personal and if it entails trusting an employee who may not be trustworthy there's a risk there. Quite frankly with the staff mishaps that have afflicted not only Charles but Diana and other royal family members, I go back to saying that they need to be careful with their staff. If they can't take sufficient care in the hiring process (as we know character references can be less than truthful sometimes) at least they can in the duties that the staff members take on.
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  #72  
Old 02-26-2006, 06:59 AM
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Comments from a few of the British online papers.

Charles to put down pen when he puts on crown

Prince Charles has accepted that his days of speaking out on contentious political subjects - and sending handwritten 'black spider' memos to ministers - must end when he becomes king.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/sto...1718383,00.html

Prince in royal row for joining Tory youth plan

PRINCE Charles was last night warned he was in danger of being duped into supporting one of David Cameron's flagship projects above a rival scheme championed by Gordon Brown, amid the escalating feud over royal "interference" in politics.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=296952006

The laughing courtier

If revenge, as the saying goes, really is a dish best served cold,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../26/nchas26.xml

This one is the Daily Mail's bias on it.

Charles: I'm an interfering busybody

The row over Prince Charles's political lobbying has intensified after a leaked letter revealed how he personally urged Tony Blair to perform a highly controversial political U-turn in the face of scientific advice.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...urce=&ito=1490

Of course what the article fails to point out, is that many farms closed and many farmers lost their way of life because the government are not farmers, have never been near a farm and know nothing about farming. The department responsible has been slammed by the report into the disaster. The evidence suggests that Charles was right all along.
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  #73  
Old 02-26-2006, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
skydragon, I agree with you that Charles doesn't like the impersonal feel of emails and handwritten notes are quite lovely. But a photocopy is not exactly personal and if it entails trusting an employee who may not be trustworthy there's a risk there.
I understand that Charles also puts personal notes and comments with the photocopied stuff.:)
Most of us know someone whose 'friend' or employee, some of many years standing, has betrayed them or let them down.
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  #74  
Old 02-26-2006, 04:03 PM
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I studied privacy rights with an emphasis on privacy rights in relation to the media while at university, so this situation is interesting.

I think that if you take away the fact that Charles is the future King of Great Britain and think of him in terms of a normal person, and what if this situation had happened to a normal person like any of us here, what would be the ramications and how would we feel. It would be deemed a gross violation of one's privacy. Period. That journal is private property the way my home is private property to me and tresspassers can be prosecuted for stepping on my property without my consent.

That Charles chose to share excerpts of his journal with his friends is besides the point. As far as I've read, he did not share it with Mark Bolland or Sara Goodall. Had one of Charles' friends whom he shared the journal with leaked it to the press, that would've been a different story. But Bolland and Goodall were not privy to the journal by Charles' invitation. Just because they worked for him or had access to it does not entitle them to share it with the media anymore than while they worked for him were they allowed to invite their friends over to Charles' home and have a party and eat his food.

As a public figure and as a member of the royal family, Charles is discouraged to speak his mind about politics. We know that he hasn't stuck to this rule to the T, and has on occasion, voiced his dislike of certain public figures or policies, especially in regards to the environment. But to his private journal, he should certainly be allowed to write as he truly feels about whatever. It's one of his remaining vestiages in which he can be completely himself and voice his opinons. Are we going to strip that right away from him now, too, in the name of being a public figure? I personally can't imagine not being able to say how I truly feel about something or to express my anger or frustration over something to my journal. And in Charles's position, who should have no public opinon on so much, I'd explode from keeping everything bottled up!
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  #75  
Old 02-26-2006, 04:19 PM
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Brilliant, Brilliant Alexandria.

Well put!

This has been taken from another thread and comes from an article in the mirror. It seems to be one aspect of his letter writing that many don't know about!

Quote:
If Charles meets a little old lady in a care home who's been treated badly he'll make sure the Government knows about it. If he goes to a school and sees that kids are being bullied he'll write to Ruth Kelly. If he's got a complaint about traffic congestion he'll bollock Alistair Darling. And if he believes there's a scandal afoot with GM foods he'll tell the media because he doesn't want it brushed under the carpet
Sounds like we need him to continue what he does!

I agree with him regarding club class, no one should have to endure it, sore bum or what!
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  #76  
Old 02-26-2006, 04:53 PM
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This the best text here so far IMO. Well done Alexandria :)
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  #77  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:11 PM
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Thanks SkyDragon and AgnesK. :)

I personally like Charles and I think he does a good job as the Prince of Wales. He's of course made mistakes here and there, but he is human, and that is precisely why I like him: His gaffes have mostly been the result of his sincerity and trying to make things right as he thinks they should be. His gaffes aren't malicious in their intent, but driven by his intentions and his heart.

And I think it's a great show of disloyalty and disrespect by Bolland and Goodall to have taken advantage of their position as employees of Charles and to have sold him out to the media for a few hundred pounds.

At the end of the day, regardless of what Charles had to say about Tony Blair, about China or anything else, this event reflects more badly on Bolland and Goodall than it does on Charles frankly. Charles was honest with himself, in something that was supposed to be private and was never for public eyes. That Bolland and Goodall saw an opportunity to make a few hundred easy pounds by exposing Charles private thoughts speaks volumes about the kind of people they are, and at the end of the day, the only regret Charles should have over this matter is that he hired either of them in the first place.

It's a cheap shot at the Prince of Wales as far as I'm concerned. Just as I thought that it was a cheap shot when a reporter from the News of the World posed as a Sheik and tricked Sophie into revealing details about the royal family when he tried to hire her PR company.

Somewhere as public consumers, we need to draw the line about what we will buy and what we won't. I don't mean just in terms of buying as in "believing" but when we refuse to buy newspapers or magazines with such scandals in them. When these sort of stories no longer translate into dollars for media sources, they will stop raising the stakes to invade the privacy of royals (and other public figures) in order to sell newspapers to make money.
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  #78  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:31 PM
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I quite agree with Alexandria and Skydragon et al.
You are all Brilliant!!!
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  #79  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG
I quite agree with Alexandria and Skydragon et al.
You are all Brilliant!!!
Excellent said, Alexandra and Skydragon.
Prince Charles does a great job and IMO he needs to continue that way!!!
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  #80  
Old 02-26-2006, 06:21 PM
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About Blackadder in The Times:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...058685,00.html

Just a thought - maybe Bolland wanted some PR for his company and that is the cause of all the fuss about his witness statement?

And another article on the matter - this time favourable for PC :)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...058781,00.html
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