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  #261  
Old 03-26-2015, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I'm glad these letters are going to be released. If Charles is, as I suspect, an incorrigible meddler who believes that he has a perfect right to interfere in legislation and lobby for changes in the law, (especially with regard to his hobby horses) all will become clear in the fullness of time.

I've always worried about this aspect of Charles's persona. He is in very many ways a superb Prince of Wales. However, if any attempted influencing of ministers comes to light as a result of these letters then his reputation will suffer, perhaps irreparably. Charles is not elected and he should leave the framing of laws to Parliament. That's what it's there for.
Nothing is or can be, called meddling from the release of these letters. Unless all letters to MP's on the given subject are released we have no way of knowing what, if anything, came of those letters.
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  #262  
Old 03-26-2015, 11:40 PM
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If Charles's letters are released and it is shown that he has lobbied successfully for any changes in the law which would benefit him or the administration of the Duchy of Cornwall, that will be tremendously damaging to his reputation, imo, when the Press examine the particulars.

It isn't much good, imho, pointing out that Joe Stubbs of Greater Wallop wrote a hundred letters on the same subject or that a hundred Alice Turnips wrote on the question.

We know, everybody knows, that letters from the Prince of Wales get greater attention from the minister concerned. No-one in the public arena is concerned with Alice and Joe's views on anything.

However, if the Prince of Wales is seen to be acting behind the scenes that brings into question his political neutrality when he becomes King, and that's something in a Parliamentary democracy everybody should be concerned about.
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  #263  
Old 03-27-2015, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
There we go! Excellent idea. Big BIG volumes of correspondence between citizens and the government. I can see the advantages now. Kid gets in trouble in school and for punishment, he needs to read each and every letter and write a book report. The possibilities are endless.

But he is the future king of England very different to Mr Smith
No ones cares what Mr Smith writes but most people would be very interested in what Charles is writing about
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  #264  
Old 03-27-2015, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Er.... we dont actually know what he wrote. Too many opinions/assumptionsd based on personal opinions of PoW, rather than fact.

It will be interesting to see the outcome
I agree, but I'm wondering if Charles wrote anything leading up to his engagement and wedding to Camilla.
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  #265  
Old 03-27-2015, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
But he is the future king of England very different to Mr Smith
No ones cares what Mr Smith writes but most people would be very interested in what Charles is writing about
He may be the future king of England but do we absolutely know that ministers see the letters and give them top priority? For all we know, they could roll their eyes and groan "another spider letter" and file it away in the Spider Man file unopened.

It would be very hard to prove that ministers acted on something just because Charles wrote to them.
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  #266  
Old 03-27-2015, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Er.... we dont actually know what he wrote. Too many opinions/assumptionsd based on personal opinions of PoW, rather than fact.

It will be interesting to see the outcome
I have to agree with you on this one. There are far too many assumptions being flung around, based on specific individual's view of the PoW!
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  #267  
Old 03-27-2015, 07:13 AM
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Osipi - that is a very good point.


Unless it is possible to prove that the ministers actually read and then changed their minds as a direct result of Charles' letters there is really no point to publishing the letters.


They also need to publish the minister's response to the letters and any comments in the ministers notes on the day/s following the receipt of the letters as well as the minutes of cabinet etc where the minister may have raised the content of the letters.


The letters themselves don't prove Charles has any influence etc.


What the publication of these letters does do is show that there is a concerted campaign being waged in the UK to bring down Charles and probably destroy the entire monarchy which is after all an aim of a republican newspaper like The Guardian that started this process in the first place.
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  #268  
Old 03-27-2015, 07:18 AM
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There is no 'concerted effort' to bring down the monarchy. The letters will be published and the usual suspects will cry and moan over the contents and then life goes on.
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  #269  
Old 03-27-2015, 07:19 AM
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Charles is very persistent where his hobby horses are concerned, as we saw in the thread about his architecture views. The ministers concerned may well roll their eyes but they aren't likely to ignore the Prince's letters, both because otherwise the government wouldn't have fought so hard to keep these letters quiet if they had been ignored, also there would have been follow-up letters and perhaps a visit if they weren't answered. Plus, there is always a chance of meeting the Prince at some official function.
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  #270  
Old 03-27-2015, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
There is no 'concerted effort' to bring down the monarchy. The letters will be published and the usual suspects will cry and moan over the contents and then life goes on.
The Guardian newspaper, which is the one that has fought for the publication of these letters, is most certainly waging a campaign to end the monarchy - it is a paper that supports the republican cause.

It may not succeed in the short term but it still has it on its agenda and will continue its concerted campaign to end the monarchy - might take them a couple of hundred years or maybe only a dozen or so but they have an aim and that is to end the monarchy in Britain so that the country can be truly democratic.

Charles is despised by many people in the UK and elsewhere - particularly by those who support Diana - and there are many people (not necessarily a majority but still a sizeable portion of the country) who would be happy to see Charles passed over for William (of course that can't happen under the existing laws but laws of succession can be changed by the parliament of the day - as we have seen this week with the Succession to the Crown Act finally being in place).

If these letters have anything controversial in them it could very well see the calls for Charles to step down or for him to be forced out grow again. They could be very benign of course but we will have to wait and see.

To say there is no 'concerted campaign' is to ignore the ideals of The Guardian and men like Murdoch who control much of the UK's press. Murdoch is a republican to his bootstraps and would love to see the end of the monarchy and uses his media resources for that end whenever possible.


I can actually see a situation where Britain becomes a republic but Canada is still a monarchy as the Canadian seem more attached to the royals than many Brits are.
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  #271  
Old 03-27-2015, 08:01 AM
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Yes, however the Guardian's circulation figures are nothing to write home about and apparently their royal wedding issues caused a temporary bump in their revenue for that edition! That says something to me about both the Guardian and republicanism in Britain.

Poll after poll for decades have shown that republicanism in Britain, whether led by Republic or the Guardian is on a slow boat to nowhere. The monarchy's too interwoven into Britain's fabric.

Anyway, more DM musings on Charles's letter writing activities.


How Prince Charles writes 1,000 letters a year to the great and good | Daily Mail Online
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  #272  
Old 03-27-2015, 11:52 AM
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[QUOTE=Iluvbertie;1762649] The letters themselves don't prove Charles has any influence etc. [QUOTE]

One could conclude that the relative inaction of the government despite the letters shows Charles' lack of influence.
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  #273  
Old 03-27-2015, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
But he is the future king of England very different to Mr Smith
No ones cares what Mr Smith writes but most people would be very interested in what Charles is writing about
This is true. But releasing this sets a disturbing precedence. When is it ok to release? A prominent community leader? Only when writing to a controversial politican. That letters can be published like that is a good way to get people scared of writing letters like that.
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  #274  
Old 03-27-2015, 12:11 PM
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A lot of what Charles writes is commonsense and most people agree with him even if sometimes he comes across as a bit eccentric.

Considering the hype around the letters I think the Guardian/republicans will be disappointed when the public rally behind Charles
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  #275  
Old 03-27-2015, 12:20 PM
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What is the rule for correspondence between MPs and large party donors? A multi pound donation is probably going to carry more weight than a letter from Charles.


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  #276  
Old 03-27-2015, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
A lot of what Charles writes is commonsense and most people agree with him even if sometimes he comes across as a bit eccentric.

Considering the hype around the letters I think the Guardian/republicans will be disappointed when the public rally behind Charles

The Guardian readers though will fall in behind the republican outrage that the paper will no doubt find and that is the audience they will be writing for.

It doesn't really matter how benign the letters may be, the Guardian will find something to get worked up about. That's the reason they sought release of them and by hook or by crook they'll find it and use it in their campaign for a republic.


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  #277  
Old 03-27-2015, 04:11 PM
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How ironic it would be if after all the court cases and fuss and nonsense over these letters, the content turns out to be rather less interesting than the Guardian hopes.
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  #278  
Old 03-27-2015, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
If Charles's letters are released and it is shown that he has lobbied successfully for any changes in the law which would benefit him or the administration of the Duchy of Cornwall, that will be tremendously damaging to his reputation, imo, when the Press examine the particulars.

It isn't much good, imho, pointing out that Joe Stubbs of Greater Wallop wrote a hundred letters on the same subject or that a hundred Alice Turnips wrote on the question.

We know, everybody knows, that letters from the Prince of Wales get greater attention from the minister concerned. No-one in the public arena is concerned with Alice and Joe's views on anything.

However, if the Prince of Wales is seen to be acting behind the scenes that brings into question his political neutrality when he becomes King, and that's something in a Parliamentary democracy everybody should be concerned about.
First of all, I think public officials are concerned about Alice and Joe's view, elected officials need ordinary people in order to be re-elected. However, it is also a fact of life that some people have more influence than others--and not just the Prince of Wales. Any politician in the UK is more likely to return a phone call from Richard Branson than a phone call from an ordinary voter.

I agree there is a problem of perception because of Charles' unique role in British society. He is supposed to be non-political, but if there is legislation that would impact his interest or the Duchy, some people believe that he should not try and influence the legislation, even though every other member of society would be able to do so.

That seems fundamentally unfair to me. Charles pays taxes and may have information that the ministers need in order to make an informed decision. The biggest concern seems to be that he put his contacts in writing. I suppose he could just switch to oral communication.
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  #279  
Old 03-27-2015, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
A lot of what Charles writes is commonsense and most people agree with him even if sometimes he comes across as a bit eccentric.

Considering the hype around the letters I think the Guardian/republicans will be disappointed when the public rally behind Charles
Now that would be a riot!
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
First of all, I think public officials are concerned about Alice and Joe's view, elected officials need ordinary people in order to be re-elected. However, it is also a fact of life that some people have more influence than others--and not just the Prince of Wales. Any politician in the UK is more likely to return a phone call from Richard Branson than a phone call from an ordinary voter.

I agree there is a problem of perception because of Charles' unique role in British society. He is supposed to be non-political, but if there is legislation that would impact his interest or the Duchy, some people believe that he should not try and influence the legislation, even though every other member of society would be able to do so.

That seems fundamentally unfair to me. Charles pays taxes and may have information that the ministers need in order to make an informed decision. The biggest concern seems to be that he put his contacts in writing. I suppose he could just switch to oral communication.
Charles is not required to be "Politically Neutral" until he becomes the monarch. Up until then, theoretically, he has the same rights as any other citizen.

Realistically he, like Richard Branson or any other such high profile citizen probably do get the chance to be heard, or at least have their letters answered.
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  #280  
Old 03-28-2015, 01:21 AM
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If the content is harmless then why the fight about the release?
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