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  #201  
Old 01-04-2015, 11:35 AM
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Martin @CourtierUK · 19m
The Supreme Court's decision on Charles’s letters is due around early February. I’m fairly confident decision will be to publish them.

Martin @CourtierUK · 18m
The Charles letters will be fairly damning, there’s no doubt about it. Public response, however, could easily side with him. Happened before
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  #202  
Old 01-04-2015, 12:29 PM
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It will depend on the nature of the interventions. There were 7 seven government department Charles wrote to and the letters are said to be very 'frank'. Charles expressing an opinion isn't a big deal but Dominic Grieve has hinted the letters will reveal Charles openly disagreed with government policy.

Its Charles's opinions being made public that is the concern not that he has opinions.
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  #203  
Old 01-04-2015, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I've been thinking about this for a bit and have to point out that HM became Queen at a rather young age and also, until Edward VIII abdicated, she was never expected to be Queen. Looking at her lifetime, the majority of it is as a monarch in a constitutional monarchy.
The irony is that, since Edward VIII didn't have children, Elizabeth would have become Queen anyway, only 20 or so years later.
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  #204  
Old 01-04-2015, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
It will depend on the nature of the interventions. There were 7 seven government department Charles wrote to and the letters are said to be very 'frank'. Charles expressing an opinion isn't a big deal but Dominic Grieve has hinted the letters will reveal Charles openly disagreed with government policy.

Its Charles's opinions being made public that is the concern not that he has opinions.
There's a difference between having an opinion and trying to influence the government the way Charles seemed to have done.
The Queen will surely express her opinion during the PM's weekly audience, but I doubt whether she goes as far as her son.
Charles is on thin ice I think. One of the reasons the British monarchy (and others) have survived until this day is that they've stayed out of politics.
I like Charles a lot, but this affair worries me. I hope he won't try to meddle when he's king.
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  #205  
Old 01-04-2015, 01:06 PM
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The other concern is neutrality. If we find out though the letters Charles is opposed to the EU for example, it will be difficult for him as king to be neutral on matters concerning the EU.
This is the reason the government opposed the release of the letters in the first place, they may damage Charles's neutrality as king
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  #206  
Old 01-04-2015, 01:10 PM
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In essence the Prince of Wales is not the Sovereign, he plays no role in the governance or administration of the United Kingdom and the many other Realms. Of course there is an "extension" of the political responsibility towards two specific royals: the Heir and then subsequently the following Heir.

Every British citizen has the right to have, to form and to express an opinion. The Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge are aware that every word is weighed on a gold balance. It is understandably that, when they utter opinions, a certain discretion is sought. On the Continent we know the term Colloque singulier. This means the absolute discretion between a priest and a penitent, between a doctor and a patient, between a lawyer and a client, but also between a constitutional King and his government.

This colloque singulier is considered essential for a proper workings of these functions. It is a pity that the British press is, as usual, acting like bloodhounds and try to break this essential confidentiality. Imagine that the press would do the same effort to break the discretion between doctors and their patients?



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  #207  
Old 01-04-2015, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The other concern is neutrality. If we find out though the letters Charles is opposed to the EU for example, it will be difficult for him as king to be neutral on matters concerning the EU.
This is the reason the government opposed the release of the letters in the first place, they may damage Charles's neutrality as king
Indeed.
I hope the letters won't be that shocking and that Charles will learn his lesson: expressing an opinion is alright, but meddling isn't. And don't write those letters anymore!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
This colloque singulier is considered essential for a proper workings of these functions. It is a pity that the British press is, as usual, acting like bloodhounds and try to break this essential confidentiality. Imagine that the press would do the same effort to break the discretion between doctors and their patients?
You can't compare this with the the relation between doctors and patients. Whole other story.
Charles has himself to blame I think: he put it in writing, making himself vulnerable as those letters could become public, as they will now.
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  #208  
Old 01-04-2015, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Arrjann View Post
You can't compare this with the the relation between doctors and patients. Whole other story.
Charles has himself to blame I think: he put it in writing, making himself vulnerable as those letters could become public, as they will now.
Also Queen Elizabeth II writes notes, talks to politicians and forms opinions. Also this is considered strictly confidential, alike the colloque singulier on the Continent. Remember the upheaval when the Prime Minister by accident made public what Her Majesty's reaction was when she heard about the outcome of the Scottish Referendum.

Her Majesty had a clear opinion about the matter and expressed it. (Not surprisingly very much in favour for keeping the Union). This political stance of the Queen was never "naked" because all involved respected the confidentiality. Sadly the Prime Minister broke the confidentiality, to a foreigner even (Mayor Bloomberg of New York City)....


This is the best proof that claims like "the Queen can not have a political opinion" is rubbish. She can. The Prince of Wales can. To avoid that "the crown is naked", it is all surrrounded with discretion and confidentiality. Much to the discontent of the press but very much necessary to behold the Crown's classic rights: the right to be informed, the right to warn and the right to encourage.

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  #209  
Old 01-04-2015, 01:44 PM
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As I understood it the Prince wrote these contentious letters believing them to 'be in confidence' , at a date prior to legislation on 'public interest' access to government correspondence ? If that is so, then IMO the contents of these letters should indeed remain private !

Any letters written since the enacting of the new legislation should [of course] 'be in the public domain'.
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  #210  
Old 01-18-2015, 02:06 AM
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I found this very interesting
http://www.newsweek.com/its-not-prin...charles-300222


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  #211  
Old 01-18-2015, 03:20 AM
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I always feel a little uneasy about "sources". They always have a lot to say but are never willing to disclose their identity, and to me, the anonymous accuser is given free reign and endless publicity with absolutely no verification.

Is it a friend? An acquaintence? Or, is it the result of a fertile mind. A person who has followed Charles interests and has convinced themself that they need to "expose" him because they believe that he will continue on (politically) as he has as POW or is it just a blind, to cover the actual author . . . the journalist.
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  #212  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:15 AM
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Reading the article, the author pointed out the "source" I think as an example of the way things could be heading when Charles is king. Perhaps he wasn't quoting the source as being totally accurate but setting an example of how things could be. The same point was brought up by mentioning the play King Charles III in the West End.

I tend to believe that once Charles is king, he will toe the line as far as voicing opinions in public but will be quite outspoken with his PM on things. Charles has been ingrained with how things have to be for too long to rock the boat too much. He may make some serious waves though.
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  #213  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:47 AM
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A lot of this will be moot with the release of the 'spider letters' This is why the government is arguing so strongly to keep the letters away from the press.

Former Attorney General Dominic Grieve said the the letters may show Charles not just having opinions but openly disagreeing with the government of the day. AG Grieve is worried once Charles's neutrality is lost it can't be regained.

It would be tantamount to the Queen's weekly meeting with the PM becoming public record. She would lose her neutrality and in a constitutional monarchy neutrality is key.
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  #214  
Old 01-18-2015, 05:42 PM
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As I understand it, Charles has as much right to disagree with Parliament as any other citizen and to convey his feelings, as a private citizen, to any government minister via letter.

When he becomes King, that right ceases. So it is hardly right or fair that his private letters should be made public and everyone elses remain "private".

If there is a change, all letters to the government should be made public, not just the POW.
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  #215  
Old 01-18-2015, 05:57 PM
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I have been saying this for awhile. If Charles letters are published then every letter should be published. Anyone can write a letter to a minister. Everyone knows Charles has opinions. I don't agree with everything he says but that doesn't bother me.
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  #216  
Old 01-18-2015, 06:13 PM
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I agree its not fair but its almost a certainty they will be released. A court of appeal judge has ruled them released in the public intertest. This was blocked by AG Dominic Grieve who overrode the finding by arguing that the documents could show Charles to be “disagreeing with Government policy” and thus be “seriously damaging” to the political neutrality expected of the monarch.

Now its up to the SC and most observers I talk with seem to think its a done deal they get released
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  #217  
Old 01-18-2015, 06:48 PM
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To my mind, either every single letter ever written to a politician by anyone should be released and made public or Prince Charles' letter should be kept under lock and key (or made to disappear if that has not already been done - where are these letters anyway, and shouldn't someone have got rid of them by now?)
What I find most annoying is that of-course the monarch and members of the royal family will have certain political leanings in one way or another. But even so, British politician are not known for taking a blind bit of notice of public opinion, much less so the opinions of our royal family.
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  #218  
Old 01-18-2015, 06:56 PM
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I think the fear of Charles being too outspoken, once he's King, is pretty much over-exaggerated by the media. I think Charles will be careful of stepping on any political toes, but I think he will continue to voice his thoughts and feelings about the issues he's so passionate about. The man has worked too hard over the years, to be suddenly told, to shut up and be the nice mute King everyone want him to be.
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  #219  
Old 01-18-2015, 07:09 PM
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They are two different issues. The issue of whether Charles will speak out as King and then there is the issue of the letters.

The dispute is centred on 27 letters exchanged between Prince Charles and ministers in seven Whitehall departments during Tony Blair’s second Government between September 2004 and April 2005.

The worry for the government is say for example we find out Charles lobbied the Blair government to leave the European Union, once he becomes King Charles can't then pretend to have no public opinion on the EU. His opinion's will be public record.

It could be quite the mess depending on what's in the letters
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  #220  
Old 01-27-2015, 07:20 AM
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I enjoy Nick Cohen

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...P=share_btn_tw


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