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  #161  
Old 08-11-2006, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
If in the European country there is only one marriage per person,then how come Prince Charles married two times?A person need to be married in order to be divorced.So Prince Charles is practising polygamy not monogamy.
Charles was not married when he married Camilla. He had been married to Diana but was divorced. Thus, he was no longer married. The situation became an additional touch when Diana dies. Charles became a widower in the eyes of believers in the christian tradition which allows not for divorces. So you may choose what you like: Charles was either a divorcee or a widower, but he was not married when he married Camilla. So Camilla is his one and only legal wife and thus "his princess".
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  #162  
Old 08-11-2006, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Charles was not married when he married Camilla. He had been married to Diana but was divorced. Thus, he was no longer married. The situation became an additional touch when Diana dies. Charles became a widower in the eyes of believers in the christian tradition which allows not for divorces. So you may choose what you like: Charles was either a divorcee or a widower, but he was not married when he married Camilla. So Camilla is his one and only legal wife and thus "his princess".
A divorcee or a widower who marries again is known as practising polygamy. On the other hand,a divorcee or a widower who does not marry again is known as practising monogamy.
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  #163  
Old 08-11-2006, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
A divorcee or a widower who marries again is known as practising polygamy. On the other hand,a divorcee or a widower who does not marry again is known as practising monogamy.
A polygamist is one who is married to more than one person at the same time.
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  #164  
Old 08-11-2006, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
A divorcee or a widower who marries again is known as practising polygamy. On the other hand,a divorcee or a widower who does not marry again is known as practising monogamy.
Members have explained in detail the intricacies of the "Princess of Wales" title and the simple fact that Prince Charles is legally married to one woman.

There is no point continuing this line of argument which is based on a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word 'polygamy'.

If there is still doubt, here is the Oxford Dictionary definition: polygamous: having more than one wife or husband at the same time.


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  #165  
Old 08-11-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
If Prince Charles dies before his mother dies, prince William becomes immediately The Duke of Cornwall and The Duke of Rothesay (in the Scottish peerage)
This is not true.
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  #166  
Old 08-11-2006, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
If HRH Prince Philip is known as the Duke of Edinburgh and HRH Prince Henrik of Denmark is known as The Prince Consort upon their marriages to Elizabeth II and Margarethe II,then why can't Camilla become HRH The Princess Consort when Prince Charles becomes King Of England?
For the same reason that wives of kings have always been Queens Consort. There's no morganatic marriage in Britian, and a woman takes her husband's rank on marriage.

Quote:
If Camilla is the Princess of Wales then how come Diana is still known as Diana,Princess of Wales?The royal family only stripped Diana from being called HRH not her title of Princess of Wales.
That's the way titled divorced women are referred to in Britain. If a Duke divorces and remarries, his second wife is "The Duchess of Whatever" and his first wife is known as "Her First Name, Duchess of Whatever." The actual duchess is the second wife.
  #167  
Old 08-11-2006, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selrahc4
This is not true.
Correct. The Duke of Cornwall is the eldest son of the monarch. If Prince Charles predeceases the Queen, Prince William would still be Prince William of Wales, and we wouldn't get a Duke of Cornwall until William was king with a son of his own.
  #168  
Old 08-11-2006, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
If Camilla is the Princess of Wales then how come Diana is still known as Diana,Princess of Wales?
Diana was A Princess of Wales, Camilla is THE Princess of Wales although I don't see what that has to do with the price of fish.
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  #169  
Old 08-13-2006, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Correct. The Duke of Cornwall is the eldest son of the monarch. If Prince Charles predeceases the Queen, Prince William would still be Prince William of Wales, and we wouldn't get a Duke of Cornwall until William was king with a son of his own.
Are you sure it's the eldest "son" or is it the "heir apparent" of the monarch?
I realize that the "heir presumptive" could not get the titles but the "heir apparent"?
  #170  
Old 08-13-2006, 10:35 AM
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Duke of Cornwall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Are you sure it's the eldest "son" or is it the "heir apparent" of the monarch?
I realize that the "heir presumptive" could not get the titles but the "heir apparent"?
This may help. From the Prince of Wales Website...

The Duchy estate was created in 1337 by Edward III for his son and heir, Prince Edward, and its primary function was to provide him and future Princes of Wales with an income from its assets. A charter rules that each future Duke of Cornwall would be the eldest surviving son of the Monarch and the heir to the throne.
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  #171  
Old 08-13-2006, 10:37 AM
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It is defenitly the eldest son that gets the Duke of Cornwall and Earl of Chester(?, it might be Carrick that goes with Cornwall)

Here is info on the titles of the Prince of Wales http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page391.asp

From the link I just posted

The Scottish titles were all vested in the heir to the throne of Scotland by an Act of Scottish Parliament, 1469

In the hypothetical that Prince William lives longer then his father, would he become Duke of Rothesay automatically ?
  #172  
Old 08-13-2006, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
I think Camilla should be known only as Princess Consort once Prince Charles accedes to the throne as she is the second wife.Although the late Princess Diana divorced Prince Charles and has passed away as well as behaved badly,she is Prince Charles's first wife and the mother of the future King of United Kingdom,so the title queen should be reserved for Diana only rather than Camilla.Moreover,Camilla was given the title Duchess of Cornwall upon her marriage to Prince Charles last year instead of Princess of Wales as there should only be one Princess of Wales.In addition,the royal family knows that Camilla did not give birth to the heir of the British throne so they decided the title of duchess would do for her rather than a higher title,the princess.Even Camilla has expressed her wish to be known only as the Princess Consort as she is aware of her situation as the second wife of Prince Charles.In royalties,first wives are more important,legal and has more power / value than the second wives.For an example,in the case of HM Sultan Haji Hassanal Bolkiah of Brunei.

Then how about your past queens in england? What about Anne Boleyn. She was indeed queen of England and the mother to the future Elizabeth 1. I think this is silly. People celebrates Diana sometimes if she was a godess but the fact is that the wife of a King has always been titled as queen and so be it.
Start to accept that Charles remaried. A lot of kings have done that and will to in the future.
  #173  
Old 08-13-2006, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Are you sure it's the eldest "son" or is it the "heir apparent" of the monarch?
I realize that the "heir presumptive" could not get the titles but the "heir apparent"?
I know it's different when you have a queen regnant, but for a ruling king I think a grandson is always an heir presumptive because the king could marry a young wife and have another child. I don't know if the grandson of a queen regnant would become heir apparent; it isn't an issue that's ever arisen in the past.

On the Prince of Wales's website it says that the Duke of Cornwall title goes to "the eldest surviving son of the Monarch and the heir to the throne," Which means that if Charles predeceased the Queen, neither Prince William nor Prince Andrew would qualify.

http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/about/duc_index.html
  #174  
Old 08-13-2006, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oppie
It is defenitly the eldest son that gets the Duke of Cornwall and Earl of Chester(?, it might be Carrick that goes with Cornwall)

Here is info on the titles of the Prince of Wales http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page391.asp

From the link I just posted

The Scottish titles were all vested in the heir to the throne of Scotland by an Act of Scottish Parliament, 1469

In the hypothetical that Prince William lives longer then his father, would he become Duke of Rothesay automatically ?
If the title is vested in the heir to the throne with no further conditions, I assume he would. I think the Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester titles are the only ones that have to be conferred; the other titles are automatic as long as the person concerned fulfills the requirements.
  #175  
Old 08-13-2006, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
I think Camilla should be known only as Princess Consort once Prince Charles accedes to the throne as she is the second wife.Although the late Princess Diana divorced Prince Charles and has passed away as well as behaved badly,she is Prince Charles's first wife and the mother of the future King of United Kingdom,so the title queen should be reserved for Diana only rather than Camilla.
I disagree completely with this.Although Camilla has "stated" that she does not want to be known as Queen,the wife of a King is known as the Queen and this should be no exception.I also do not like the way you have brought up Diana,because,as you said she is no longer here and is really nothing to do with the future of our country.This is,unlike Camilla who will indeed will be.
  #176  
Old 08-13-2006, 02:46 PM
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I don't see why over a thousand years of tradition should be changed for one woman.
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  #177  
Old 08-13-2006, 03:06 PM
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Exactly.It just really really irritates me when people continue to bring up Diana when we discuss our future monarchy!
  #178  
Old 08-13-2006, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
I think Camilla should be known only as Princess Consort once Prince Charles accedes to the throne as she is the second wife.Although the late Princess Diana divorced Prince Charles and has passed away as well as behaved badly,she is Prince Charles's first wife and the mother of the future King of United Kingdom,so the title queen should be reserved for Diana only rather than Camilla.
Perhaps you also believe that all 2nd/3rd/4th etc wives should be called by a different name than is generally used in the UK.

How many wives Charles had or for that matter has, (and I think Charles is now happily married to the woman of his dreams), it will always be his wife at the time that is important.

I agree with Hayz64, The deceased ex wife of Prince Charles has no place in this discussion!
  #179  
Old 08-13-2006, 07:51 PM
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Not being a Royal peer I've often wondererd what Prince Michael of Kent would wear at a Coronation. I suppose it would either be naval uniform along with a male version of the ermine robes worn by the princesses or naval uniform with the blue satin robes of a Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order. One never sees anyone in the latter nowadays but they do exist as I saw a picture of Lord Mountbatten in them in the 1940's it's just that unlike some other orders the RVO only has a service every 3 years which is held in St. George's chapel and members only wear their insignia but not their robes which I think is a pity as they looked very impressive in the Mountbatten picture. Any other ideas about what the Prince would wear?
  #180  
Old 08-13-2006, 08:44 PM
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Dear Members,

This whole discussion has become in my view somewhat ghoulish, for want of a better word. The plain truth is that according to law, tradition etc. the wife of the King of the United Kingdom is the Queen of the United Kingdom. I think this whole Princess Consort business is just plain silly. That somehow Camilla is soiled or second rate goods, which she most certainly is not.

Any other issues are extraneous. I would note that this business of discussing a coronation before his mother, the good woman, has departed this veil of tears for her most justified reward in heaven, (I hope) is really a bit much. If the QM Elizabeth is any example the Queen will easily live another twenty years or more.

My whole quibble with Charles is that monarchy in order to be relevant must be irrelevant, ie it is an atavistic institution which appeals to that non rational aspect of the communal life of a nation. That is why it is so important that tradition and order and way things are done be so scrupulously maintained.

As for our poor Australian friends who think a replublic will be such an improvement-that they will have one of their own to lead the country- I will leave them with their hallucinations or should I say delusions. Having lived in a country that is a so called constitutional democracy and a republic ie, the USA, you will permit me to smile.
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