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  #141  
Old 08-10-2006, 02:19 PM
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Speaking of titles and monikers, I don't think that Camilla should have to be known as Princess Consort when Charles ascends to the throne. She is his wife and should be given the title of Queen. I am sure as time goes on the people who oppose this will slowly change their minds. I hope
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  #142  
Old 08-10-2006, 03:24 PM
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As it has been previously explained, Camilla will be Queen, once Prince Charles becomes King. As the Clarence House said in a statement, The Duchess has expresses wish to be known as Princess Consort.
I agree with you though that Camilla must not only have the title of the Queen but also be known as one.
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  #143  
Old 08-10-2006, 03:43 PM
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Well Camilla will be Queen and the British public should treat her like one and respect her when the time eventually comes.
  #144  
Old 08-10-2006, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
As it has been previously explained, Camilla will be Queen, once Prince Charles becomes Queen. As the Clarence House said in a statement, The Duchess has expresses wish to be known as Princess Consort.
I agree with you though that Camilla must not only have the title of the Queen but also be known as one.
don't you mean once Prince Charles becomes King?
  #145  
Old 08-10-2006, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayz64
Well Camilla will be Queen and the British public should treat her like one and respect her when the time eventually comes.
She is his wife and she is not a second-class human being. The idea that she should be deprived of what she is lawfully entitled to is IMHO an affront against the laws that rule Royal life, laws that come from the Parliament aka the people's representatives and thus should be accepted as the will of the majority of the people of Great Britain. I understand that the idea of a queen Camilla does not sit well with all the people but that's how life in a democracy is like: the representatives of the majority of the people decide what is the law and all have to abide by it. Nobody will be forced to curtsey to queen Camilla and nobody will have to call her "Her Majesty" if he or she does not want to do it. But the law is the law and according to that, Camilla will be queen as the wife of the king.
  #146  
Old 08-10-2006, 04:24 PM
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Exactly!People need to get over themselves...Camilla WILL be Queen!
  #147  
Old 08-10-2006, 05:44 PM
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She'll be Queen. Over my cold dead corpse will she be downgraded to a Princess Consort.
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  #148  
Old 08-10-2006, 10:11 PM
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Queen Camilla has a nicer ring than Princess Camilla.
  #149  
Old 08-10-2006, 11:25 PM
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I agree, we can easily live with a Queen Camilla and with time people will get used to it. Maybe faster than what we think. I mean, as a royal Consort she has achieved in short time an acceptance from the public I've never imagined. And her discretion in public is impecable. Not a single controversy so far despite the tabloids' huntfor a scandal. And I don't recall seen Prince Charles so relaxed except when he has her around. She seems to be a calming presence in his life.
So, for me, Queen Camilla is fine enough.

But, what is this thing on Charles wanting to change his name? I can expect that if he was running for a Papal office at the Vatican (that implies a new life) but we all come to known him as Charles, plain and simple Prince Charles. If the reason behind this is the thought of the name associated with a bad moment in British History, well then, he could be that new King Charles to give a positive spin to the name. When his parents choose his name they probably expected him to use it as King. No doubt the then Princess Elizabeth had many names to select from but this current name probably went through a lot of drafts before choosing Charles for the next royal heir.
  #150  
Old 08-11-2006, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_rankin
Speaking of titles and monikers, I don't think that Camilla should have to be known as Princess Consort when Charles ascends to the throne. She is his wife and should be given the title of Queen. I am sure as time goes on the people who oppose this will slowly change their minds. I hope
I think Camilla should be known only as Princess Consort once Prince Charles accedes to the throne as she is the second wife.Although the late Princess Diana divorced Prince Charles and has passed away as well as behaved badly,she is Prince Charles's first wife and the mother of the future King of United Kingdom,so the title queen should be reserved for Diana only rather than Camilla.Moreover,Camilla was given the title Duchess of Cornwall upon her marriage to Prince Charles last year instead of Princess of Wales as there should only be one Princess of Wales.In addition,the royal family knows that Camilla did not give birth to the heir of the British throne so they decided the title of duchess would do for her rather than a higher title,the princess.Even Camilla has expressed her wish to be known only as the Princess Consort as she is aware of her situation as the second wife of Prince Charles.In royalties,first wives are more important,legal and has more power / value than the second wives.For an example,in the case of HM Sultan Haji Hassanal Bolkiah of Brunei.
  #151  
Old 08-11-2006, 03:52 AM
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I am talking about a longer term. If Camilla were to be called Princess Consort when Prince Charles became King. What shall they rank Camilla after Prince Charles died and William became the King? Princess Consort is a HRH and Queen Consort is a HM. There is a big difference in this. William and his wife will become HMs, how can they deal with Camilla with her title is a HRH?
I will be happy if Camilla becomes HM Queen Camilla. Things will be more easier.
  #152  
Old 08-11-2006, 04:09 AM
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What is the point of reserving a title for a dead person? That's macabre. Since Diana was divorced from Charles, there's no way she was ever going to be Queen.

Since morganatic marriage isn't part of British law, Camilla will be Queen when Charles becomes King. If she chooses to be known as HRH the Princess Consort - i.e., a Royal Highness rather than Majesty - it'll probably require special legislation. Unlike the present circumstance, when there are a lot of peerages involved and she can choose to be known by any of her titles, the King (and hence his consort) doesn't have subsidiary titles. This Princess Consort business would have to be created specially.

Camilla is at present the Princess of Wales. She's also the Duchess of Cornwall and a whole parade of other titles. She's chosen to be known by her Duchess of Cornwall title, but that doesn't alter the fact that she's also the Princess of Wales.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html
  #153  
Old 08-11-2006, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
In royalties,first wives are more important,legal and has more power / value than the second wives.For an example,in the case of HM Sultan Haji Hassanal Bolkiah of Brunei.
Maybe you misunderstood the concept of marriages in Europe, when you compare it to the Sultan's marriages?

In European countries, there is only one marriage per person - monogamy. And the spouse from this marriage shares her husband's position, even if she does not want to use the name and/or title. So by law Camilla is HRH The Princess of Wales, the one and only wife of HRH The Prince of Wales. So by law plain Ms. Mabel van Oranje-Wisse-Smit as the one and only legal wife of HRH Johan Friso of Orange-Nassau is HRH Princess Mabel of Oranje-Nassau, even as the princess decides not to use the style she is entitled to.

By law Camilla will be queen. There is no morganatic marriage, no concubinate, nothing to prevent her from being queen, but a law that clearly states that the wife of the king is queen. It's as easy as that.

Diana was divorced, thus she was not longer the wife of the prince of Wales and did not longer share his social position. There is no position like the "Sultana Valide" of the former Osman empire which is the title belonging to the mother of the souverain - even if William had become king while Diana was still alive she still would have been the divorced wife of Prince Charles. Sounds harsh, but that's how it is in Britain and we are talking about Britain here, not about muslim monarchies with different rules like the one in Brunei.
  #154  
Old 08-11-2006, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by love_cc
I am talking about a longer term. If Camilla were to be called Princess Consort when Prince Charles became King. What shall they rank Camilla after Prince Charles died and William became the King? Princess Consort is a HRH and Queen Consort is a HM. There is a big difference in this. William and his wife will become HMs, how can they deal with Camilla with her title is a HRH?
I will be happy if Camilla becomes HM Queen Camilla. Things will be more easier.
Maybe Camilla can be Dowager Princess Consort.If the British Royal Family can deal of Prince Philip being just a HRH and The Queen as HM,why can't Prince William and his wife deal with Camilla being a HRH whom is not his own natural mother?
  #155  
Old 08-11-2006, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
What is the point of reserving a title for a dead person? That's macabre. Since Diana was divorced from Charles, there's no way she was ever going to be Queen.

Since morganatic marriage isn't part of British law, Camilla will be Queen when Charles becomes King. If she chooses to be known as HRH the Princess Consort - i.e., a Royal Highness rather than Majesty - it'll probably require special legislation. Unlike the present circumstance, when there are a lot of peerages involved and she can choose to be known by any of her titles, the King (and hence his consort) doesn't have subsidiary titles. This Princess Consort business would have to be created specially.

Camilla is at present the Princess of Wales. She's also the Duchess of Cornwall and a whole parade of other titles. She's chosen to be known by her Duchess of Cornwall title, but that doesn't alter the fact that she's also the Princess of Wales.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html
If HRH Prince Philip is known as the Duke of Edinburgh and HRH Prince Henrik of Denmark is known as The Prince Consort upon their marriages to Elizabeth II and Margarethe II,then why can't Camilla become HRH The Princess Consort when Prince Charles becomes King Of England?If Camilla is the Princess of Wales then how come Diana is still known as Diana,Princess of Wales?The royal family only stripped Diana from being called HRH not her title of Princess of Wales.
  #156  
Old 08-11-2006, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Maybe you misunderstood the concept of marriages in Europe, when you compare it to the Sultan's marriages?
In European countries, there is only one marriage per person - monogamy...
If in the European country there is only one marriage per person,then how come Prince Charles married two times? A person need to be married in order to be divorced.So Prince Charles is practising polygamy not monogamy.
  #157  
Old 08-11-2006, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
If Camilla is the Princess of Wales then how come Diana is still known as Diana,Princess of Wales?The royal family only stripped Diana from being called HRH not her title of Princess of Wales.
Even if Dianan had still been the wife of The Prince of Wales and thus the holder of the title of "The Princess of Wales" when she died, after her death it could of course have been given to the next wife of The Prince of Wales.

As it is, Diana is not only dead, but was divorced before her death. Charles has legally married Camilla, thus Camilla is HRH The Princess of Wales. Diana was simply Diana, Princess of Wales after her divorce. When Diana married Charles, she took on the family name Diana Windsor and the courtesy title of "The Princess of Wales" as wife of "The Prince of Wales". When she divorced, she (according to British law) could choose between Lady Diana Windsor (the "Lady" being her own title from her father's side - she was the daughter of an earl) or Diana, Princess of Wales as her name! She did not longer have the title of "The Princess of Wales", only was named like that because people knew her under that name, so she decided against Lady Diana Windsor and became Diana, Princess of Wales.

Camilla can't be a "Dowager" as this title is reserved for the mother of the next holder of the title, AFAIK. So if Charles had died while still being Prince of Wales and married to Diana, Diana would have been HRH, The Princess of Wales" till William, then the new Prince of Wales, married. After the marriage her title would have been HRH The Dowager Princess of Wales". If Charles dies before he becomes king, in the current situation Camilla immediately would be HRH Camilla, Princess of Wales, called HRH Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall because she is not the mother of the new prince, thus can't be a Dowager Princess. But at the moment Camilla is by law HRH The Princess of Wales, The Duchess of Cornwall, The Duchess of Rothesay, while she prefers not to be called like that. None the less, she is entitled to that style.

Hope it's clearer now.
  #158  
Old 08-11-2006, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Even if Dianan had still been the wife of The Prince of Wales and thus the holder of the title of "The Princess of Wales" when she died, after her death it could of course have been given to the next wife of The Prince of Wales.

As it is, Diana is not only dead, but was divorced before her death. Charles has legally married Camilla. Hope it's clearer now.
If Diana had still been the wife of The Prince of Wales and thus the holder of the title of "The Princess of Wales" when she died,wouldn't the title of "The Princess of Wales" be transferred (given) to the wife of the next Prince of Wales (wife of Prince William) instead to the next wife of the current Prince of Wales (Camilla,Duchess of Cornwall)?Since Prince William is not elected as the Prince of Wales and he is not married,shouldn't the title of "The Princess of Wales" be skipped intead of Camilla being called as "The Princess of Wales"?
  #159  
Old 08-11-2006, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
If Diana had still been the wife of The Prince of Wales and thus the holder of the title of "The Princess of Wales" when she died,wouldn't the title of "The Princess of Wales" be transferred (given) to the wife of the next Prince of Wales (wife of Prince William) instead to the next wife of the current Prince of Wales (Camilla,Duchess of Cornwall)?Since Prince William is not elected as the Prince of Wales and he is not married,shouldn't the title of "The Princess of Wales" be skipped intead of Camilla being called as "The Princess of Wales"?
No, whomever the Prince of Wales is married to at the time, is "The Princess of Wales", the title doesn't skip. The important person who actually holds the title is "The Prince of Wales' his spouse is secondary, they just have the spousal title. So whomever is the spouse is 'The Princess of Wales'.
If Diana were still alive, the situation would be that she would be (courtesy title) 'Diana, Princess of Wales' and Camilla "The Princess of Wales".

( Historically there have been many "Princesses of Wales", Diana isn't even the most famous or beloved, that was Queen Alexandra as Princess of Wales. There's no need to see 'princess of wales' as Diana's title as it belonged to many others)
  #160  
Old 08-11-2006, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
If Diana had still been the wife of The Prince of Wales and thus the holder of the title of "The Princess of Wales" when she died,wouldn't the title of "The Princess of Wales" be transferred (given) to the wife of the next Prince of Wales (wife of Prince William) instead to the next wife of the current Prince of Wales (Camilla,Duchess of Cornwall)?Since Prince William is not elected as the Prince of Wales and he is not married,shouldn't the title of "The Princess of Wales" be skipped intead of Camilla being called as "The Princess of Wales"?
You seem to misunderstand the concept behind the sharing of titles:

The wife shares all of her husband's titles by courtesy. That means she is not getting these titles of her own, but is allowed to use them as long as she is married to the holder of these titles. There is no title of a "Princess of wales" in her own right, there is only the title of "The Princess of Wales" courtesy of the woman's marriage to "The Prince of Wales".

As long as Prince Charles lives as the heir of his mother, the queen, he is "The Prince of Wales" in his own right, so by courtesy his wife is "The Princess of Wales". If Prince Charles dies before his mother dies, prince William becomes immediately The Duke of Cornwall and The Duke of Rothesay (in the Scottish peerage) plus all Prince Charles' other titles except the title of "The Prince of Wales". It's up to the queen to create her grandson "The Prince of Wales" or not.

When Charles divorced Diana, she stopped being the wife of "The Prince of wales", thus she had no longer the right to the courtesy title of "The Princess of Wales". Important is the "The" - there can only be one "The Princess of Wales" and that is the legal wife of "The Prince of Wales" or his widow, if the next prince is not yet married and is the son of this princess.

Camilla is Charles' legal wife. Charles is "The Prince of Wales". Thus, Camilla is by courtesy "The Princess of Wales" just like Diana was when she was the legal wife of Prince Charles.

The legal wife of the king is the queen - says the law. So when Charles will be king, Camilla as his legal wife will by courtesy be the queen or the queen consort. She is not going to be the queen in her own right, just like she is no princess in her own right.

When "The Prince of Orange" - the heir to the throne of the Netherlands married Ms. Zorreguieta, the queen of the Netherlands created the new "The Princess of Orange" - her courtesy title as the wife of "The Prince of Orange" - into "Princess of the Netherlands" in her own right. If The prince of Orange divorced his wife, Princess Maxima would cease to be "The Princess of Orange" by courtesy, but she would still be "HRH The Princess Maxima of the Netherlands" in her own right. So Maxima's position is much better than that of Diana, who was just by courtesy as wife of a princess called a princess but never was one in her own right. While Maxima now is and will be forever.

As to your question: Prince William's future wife will become "The Princess of Wales" by courtesy the moment her husband wll become "The Prince of Wales" in his own right. Not a moment before that. As long as Charles lives and is not king, he is the one and only "The Prince of Wales" and his wife is "The Princess of Wales". No matter how she calls herself.

I hope it is clearer now as a concept.
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