King Charles and Queen Camilla

[Avalon]

Personally I think that Prince Charles is right to choose the title of the “Defender of the faiths” because he is going to be the King of all British people, regardless of their religion and it’s only fair to give them all some sort of equality. COE is of course unique of HRH Prince Charles, for he was bought up in the religion, but I find his wish really appropriate.

[Toledo]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Empress, you may want to read these threads where Camilla's title was exhaustively discussed.

Title for Camilla part 1
Title for Camilla part 2
Will Charles Ever Reign

There are problems with the Princess Consort title (albeit what the BRF website says) which is more thoroughly discussed there.

Perhaps you'd like to pose your questions there.

Something came to mind just now. If Camilla become Queen Consort would Charles upgrade her kids to some kind of Lordship title just to make them a little more that his step kids? Although I've never heard of anyone being named Step-prince :p. I think Charles will bestow some kind of nobility to her kids, even if is only to make people that don't like him angry.

PS. three topics on Camilla is two topics too much. I mean, the woman hardly speaks a word. Time for some blender action?

[Elspeth]

I very much doubt that Charles would do anything about titles for Camilla's children. There's no need, and these days it isn't really all that common to hand out titles just for being related to a royal.

PS. It isn't three topics on Camilla. It's one topic in two parts and some posts in a thread about Charles reigning, which is relevant to his wife. No problem that I can see.

[Royal Fan]

it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[AgnesK]

Originally Posted by Royal Fan

it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I think it will depend on their public standing. I hope it will be high enough to let it happens:)

[LOSSEAN]

Thanks Beatrixfan for starting this thread. I find the information very, very interesting.

[BeatrixFan]

My pleasure :)

[iago]

Originally Posted by chrissy57

The title was originally given to Henry VIII after he wrote an article in defence of the Roman Catholic church at the time of the Lutheran reformation.

When he broke from Rome the title was withdrawn by the Pope, when the Pope excommunicated Henry BUT Henry then had the English Parliament confer the title on him for defending the reformed Catholic church in England.

As a result the title has been one that goes with the title of King/Queen of England. When the throne joined with that of Scotland to become the King/Queen of Great Britain the title still remained with the monarch.

Charles simply wants to acknowledge more of his subjects rather than just those who are worshippers within the Anglican Church.

The title was in fact bestowed and later withdrawn by the Pope. Henry VIII as supreme Head of the Church in England was in no way within his rights to have Parliament bestow the title on him. In effect, he was bestowing the title on himself. In addition, there was no provision for successive sovereigns to use that title.

Since the discussion revolves around trying not to offend the sensibilities of people who are not members of the CofE (which is perfectly fine) has anyone stopped to consider that the continued use of a title bestowed and then withdrawn by the Papacy is an affront to the RC subjects of the British monarch? So, perhaps the title should be dropped altogether?

[BeatrixFan]

I recently was reading through some material on Orthodoxy (long story) and it mentions Prince Charles's possible conversion. It says that there is nothing to stop the future Monarch being Orthodox, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish etc - he just can't be a Catholic. The author, a Russian Orthodox Monk, says that he believes Charles will either drop the title 'Defender of the Faith' or use instead 'Defender of Faith' and convert to Orthodoxy. The way the Church of England is going, I doubt it'll be an issue when Charles becomes King.

[iago]

Perhaps Charles is influenced here by his father. Prince Philip re-converted back to being Greek Orthodox several years ago.

[MARG]

Originally Posted by iago

Perhaps Charles is influenced here by his father. Prince Philip re-converted back to being Greek Orthodox several years ago.

Any info on why or when this occurred?

[GrandDuchess]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

I recently was reading through some material on Orthodoxy (long story) and it mentions Prince Charles's possible conversion. It says that there is nothing to stop the future Monarch being Orthodox, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish etc - he just can't be a Catholic. The author, a Russian Orthodox Monk, says that he believes Charles will either drop the title 'Defender of the Faith' or use instead 'Defender of Faith' and convert to Orthodoxy. The way the Church of England is going, I doubt it'll be an issue when Charles becomes King.

That's really interesting, thank you for sharing. I've known that Charles has been a person interested in different cultures and religions, but I didn't know he leaned so much towards one specific belief. Did you read anything about why he's so interested in this direction particularly?

[Lady Bluffton]

Seems to me that Camilla might get a new crown altogether as she is supposed to be styled "Princess Consort" rather than Queen Consort.

Also, seems impossible to be head of the Church of England and a member of another denomination / brand of Christianity, as some have suggested Prince Charles would convert to Orthodoxy. Big surprise to me that Prince Philip has reverted to Orthodoxy; I have heard nothing whatsoever about that development.

[BeatrixFan]

Did you read anything about why he's so interested in this direction particularly?

Well, from research I've done into Orthodoxy (and alot of websites etc mention Charles as a kind of big hope for Orthodoxy in Britain) it seems that Charles and his father regularly attended Orthodox services in the chapel specially created at Buckingham Palace for Princess Alice, Charles's Grandmother. He also goes at least once a year to Mount Athos to spend time there. Mount Athos is one of Orthodoxy's most holiest places and one of the monks there said in a rare interview, "When Charles comes, he's alive. He's Orthodox in his heart". I think that it's generally accepted at Clarence House that if the Protestant faith wasn't a huge requirement for him, Charles would convert to Orthodoxy. King Constantine has arranged retreats at Orthodox monasteries and meetings with Orthodox leaders and one Archmandrite goes to Highgrove once a month to say prayers with Charles. So, the interest really is a family one GrandDuchess and as you say, Charles is interested in many different cultures and religions and it seems his credo to promote a multi-faith society so that he can follow his own religious path.

As to the Duke of Edinburgh, although he converted to Anglicanism when he married the Queen, for a few years after, he could still be seen making the Orthodox sign of the cross when he entered a Church. Philip has also made trips to Mount Athos and is on a special 'board of directors' as is Charles. A few years ago, Philip began going back to the Orthodox church but it wasn't very publicised and as far as I know, he doesn't go to Orthodox services reguarly. Apparantly, he was chrismated in the 90s but I don't believe that as he was never excommunicated and wouldn't need to be re-christmated.

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

I recently was reading through some material on Orthodoxy (long story) and it mentions Prince Charles's possible conversion. It says that there is nothing to stop the future Monarch being Orthodox, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish etc - he just can't be a Catholic. The author, a Russian Orthodox Monk, says that he believes Charles will either drop the title 'Defender of the Faith' or use instead 'Defender of Faith' and convert to Orthodoxy. The way the Church of England is going, I doubt it'll be an issue when Charles becomes King.

That's true as long as we're talking about a future king. An actual king has to be a communicant of the CofE, and he can't do that if he's a Muslim, Hindu, Orthodox, or Catholic, although a Jewish king who'd converted to CofE could.

[BeatrixFan]

But is that strictly true? Edward VIII didn't take communion in the Church of England whilst he was King and only attended a church service twice. Charles could still take communion in the CofE if he was Orthodox.

[Elspeth]

Yes, but he'd been confirmed in the church and had never left it, as far as I know. Isn't that all it takes to be a communicant?

[Elspeth]

This is the bit of wording from the Act of Settlement I'm thinking of:

"That whosoever shall hereafter come to the possession of this Crown, shall join in communion with the Church of England, as by law established;"

which is the paragraph after the stuff in paragraph III here:

http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/par...settlement.htm

[BeatrixFan]

Well, the church defines being a communicant as someone who reguarly takes communion in a protestant church and not a Catholic church. That's the major difference. The Doctrines of the RCC really are immaterial - it's communion that's the biggie. The Orthodox believe the same as the RCC where communion is concerned, but there isn't a named ban on the Orthodox. There is on Catholics.

[Elspeth]

Yes, well, I think the thing I was trying to say is that while being a member of a religion other than Protestant Christian (with the exception of Roman Catholic) wouldn't be enough to kick a person out of the line of succession, refusing to become a member of the C of E would be enough to stop them becoming monarch. Harry could become a Muslim and stay in line to the throne legally (although the public outcry might be interesting), but if Charles and William predeceased him, he couldn't become king without converting. I'm absolutely sure the archbishop would flat refuse to crown him too, although I think the cutoff is accession, not coronation.