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  #801  
Old 01-17-2007, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
The Sovereign can hold other titles though. The Queen is the Duchess of Edinburgh too. (At least according to Wiki!)
No, she is not. All titles and ranks of her birth status and related peerages merged with the Crown.

The only other style The Queen carries is Duke of Lancaster while in the Duchy on official business. And even that is merely a convention of courtesy since she cannot be anything but The Sovereign.
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  #802  
Old 01-17-2007, 03:42 PM
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And then you have the question of what this does after the accession. If she's actually Queen, regardless of what she's calling herself, then does she get crowned? Does she sign documents Camilla R? Does she accompany Charles to the State Opening of Parliament and sit on the consort's throne? What does she wear on her head while doing so? Enquiring minds would REALLY like to know.
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  #803  
Old 01-17-2007, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Does she sign documents Camilla R?
I thought only the Sovereign could sign with the "R"? I don't think that applies to consorts...does it?
  #804  
Old 01-17-2007, 04:02 PM
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When i read the discussion in this thread about a possible Queen Camilla, i remember the time before the wedding of Charles and Camilla. There was a similar discussion about her title as a wife of the Prince and also about her role.
And now she uses the title and it seems as if she is the Duchess for a long time, how was her name before... ? And she has her role, when she´s with the Prince and when she is alone at an engagement. It seems that she has done it all for a long time, what did she does before.... ?
Maybe it will be the same when Charles will be King and Camilla will be Queen (And i have no doubt, that it will happen). I think there are many good plans for that time, and maybe it will be much easier as many people believe now.
I don´t think that the Duchess and the Prince have sleepless nights because of these questions.
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  #805  
Old 01-17-2007, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassie
I thought only the Sovereign could sign with the "R"? I don't think that applies to consorts...does it?
If you look at photos of the marriage certificates of Prince Charles and Princess Anne, I think you'll see two "Elizabeth R" signatures, one from the Queen and one from the Queen Mother.
  #806  
Old 01-17-2007, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milla Ca
And now she uses the title and it seems as if she is the Duchess for a long time, how was her name before... ? And she has her role, when she´s with the Prince and when she is alone at an engagement. It seems that she has done it all for a long time, what did she does before....
Camilla carries the style of a duchess (as does The Duchess of Kent and Duchess of Gloucester), but they are princesses of the UK with the rank of HRH by virtue of their marriages, which is superior to their ranks in the peerage.

As stated earlier by others, the question once Charles becomes King is can HM The Queen be styled as a Princess of the UK with the rank of Royal Highness without legislation to remove her existing rank and title?

I think the answer is no, UNLESS, Parliament made the decision to pass legislation NOW changing the title and style of the monarchy (i.e. the wife of the King is not automatically entitled to share his rank). Then, it could be done without a problem when the time comes.
  #807  
Old 01-17-2007, 04:59 PM
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The Queen's title of "Duchess of Edinburgh" didn't merge with the crown, as it is a title that she holds because she is married to the Duke of Edinburgh, who is not the sovereign. In a purely and completely hypothetical situation, were Her Majesty (god forbid) to abdicate, she would instantaneiously become "HRH the Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh", with no need for any grant of the title from the new Sovereign. This is not a reversion to a previous style, it is the use of an inferior style already held. This would stand in contrast to Edward VIII, who did not hold the title of "Prince of Wales" after abdication, because that title merged with the crown in January 1936, as he held it in his own right.
  #808  
Old 01-17-2007, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
If you look at photos of the marriage certificates of Prince Charles and Princess Anne, I think you'll see two "Elizabeth R" signatures, one from the Queen and one from the Queen Mother.
Okay...thanks!
  #809  
Old 01-17-2007, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbenson
The Queen's title of "Duchess of Edinburgh" didn't merge with the crown, as it is a title that she holds because she is married to the Duke of Edinburgh, who is not the sovereign.
Yes, you are correct Edinburgh did not merge with the Crown. However, it is no longer a style, title or rank held by Elizabeth as she is The Sovereign and cannot be a peer.
  #810  
Old 01-17-2007, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Yes, you are correct Edinburgh did not merge with the Crown. However, it is no longer a style, title or rank held by Elizabeth as she is The Sovereign and cannot be a peer.
Was Mary Tudor ever the queen of Spain as wife of king Philip? And what about princess Anne? I remeber there was a discussion when she became "HRH The princess Anne, Mrs. Mark Phillips" she could not be that as she should have been "HRH The princess Anne, Lady Anne Phillips" as daughter of a duke...
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  #811  
Old 01-17-2007, 05:31 PM
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My brain hurts...
  #812  
Old 01-17-2007, 05:40 PM
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Thankfully I don't have one but if I did, it'd be hurting too.
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  #813  
Old 01-17-2007, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Yes, you are correct Edinburgh did not merge with the Crown. However, it is no longer a style, title or rank held by Elizabeth as she is The Sovereign and cannot be a peer.
She is still Duchess of Edinburgh, I think. In this respect she is not a peer. She is the wife of a peer.
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  #814  
Old 01-17-2007, 06:20 PM
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Well, the Duke of Edinburgh isn't strictly speaking a peer. He isn't allowed to sit in the House of Lords.
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  #815  
Old 01-17-2007, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Well, the Duke of Edinburgh isn't strictly speaking a peer. He isn't allowed to sit in the House of Lords.
Yes, along with many other peers who no longer have that right. But I know what you meant by "strictly speaking".
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  #816  
Old 01-17-2007, 07:05 PM
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The argument about whether camilla should be known as princess consort or Queen is tiring. I'am 100% a diana fan but Camilla is Charles's second wife and if he ascends the throne she will be Queen Consort. That title has no affliation towards Diana. Let Camilla be known as Queen Consort.
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  #817  
Old 01-17-2007, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhon11234
The argument about whether camilla should be known as princess consort or Queen is tiring. I'am 100% a diana fan but Camilla is Charles's second wife and if he ascends the throne she will be Queen Consort. That title has no affliation towards Diana. Let Camilla be known as Queen Consort.
The official website:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page5559.asp
  #818  
Old 01-17-2007, 07:19 PM
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quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien
okay what do I need to look at on the BRF website.
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  #819  
Old 01-17-2007, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Yes, you are correct Edinburgh did not merge with the Crown. However, it is no longer a style, title or rank held by Elizabeth as she is The Sovereign and cannot be a peer.
No, but she still is a Peer's wife, of course.
  #820  
Old 01-17-2007, 07:48 PM
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These last few pages have certainly been interesting reading, if nothing else.


I think the things we can all agree on is that it would take an act of legislation to make Camilla something other than Queen when Charles ascends the throne. I am speaking only of STRIPPING HER TITLE, nothing else. We also know that that the Sovereign can confer titles upon people. What we don't know is whether Camilla will have her title stripped and another one given to her by the King.


I say no. It's not happening. I doubt Parliament will go through with it, irrespective of what was uttered by Clarence House earlier. She will be Queen, he will be King and people will just have to accept that.
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