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  #661  
Old 01-14-2007, 06:04 PM
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Love CC, I completely agree with you. I hope circumstances change too. And I think Camilla is proving herself as worth her weight in gold and that there would be no objection to this change. All it requires is a little guts. The only thing that worries me is that she is working so well as 'Prince of W/Duchess of C' that they may not want to rock the boat, they may fear that going back to the norm of Queen would damage Camilla's present popularity.

I really do want her to be Queen Camilla and known as Queen Camilla. I can't stand the idea of the King's wife known as the Princess Consort.

enough of this! I have to get to bed. TRF are addictive!
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  #662  
Old 01-14-2007, 06:13 PM
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I highly doubt there will be any momentum from the Government, the Commonwealth, the Church or the public to downgrade Camilla's position as Queen Consort. By the time it comes to pass, both she and Charles will be old and their reign will not last long.

People are looking towards the future and that really rests with William anyway. His reign will be far longer and more influential than his father's will be.
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  #663  
Old 01-14-2007, 06:20 PM
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Don't worry, Frothy. Camilla will be accepted as a memeber of royal family, the wife of the heir to the throne, a future queen by the majority of British people as times go by. People will understand that divorce is a part of modern society and it occurs to the royals as well.

People will accept a truly happy royal couple rather than a sham royal marriage. Diana will be always regarded as a great POW,but Camilla will be regarded as a good Queen to King Charles and his people. This is my view.This is how the destiny and how the god decides.
  #664  
Old 01-14-2007, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
In a sense, it IS a higher title (at least in the peerage of the UK) because he automatically became The Duke of Cornwall in 1952 as the eldest son and heir of The Sovereign. He also is entitled under law to the income and monies accrued from the Duchy itself as the eldest son and heir..
.
I was thinking the very same thing. What also reminded me was I was watching the Travel Channel's Top 10 Castles of Britain and saw the Caernarfon Castle where Charles was "crowned" The Prince of Wales.
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  #665  
Old 01-14-2007, 07:34 PM
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Camilla will be Queen. Anything less is a joke.
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  #666  
Old 01-14-2007, 08:03 PM
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Camilla will be what is decided when that time comes. Whether it be Princess Consort (officially) or Queen Consort, only the future knows
  #667  
Old 01-15-2007, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judy_PD
Personally i'd not like the idea of Camilla being Queen at all. I think it'd ruin some opinions of Diana's memory.
Diana was never going to be Queen after her divorce, (with or without Camilla's marriage to Charles), she may even have remarried, so how can it ruin some opinions of her memory?
  #668  
Old 01-15-2007, 07:16 AM
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Just want to add that even experts on constitutional law are not sure what the law requires:

(from:http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in682952.shtml)

"Stephen Cretney of Oxford University accused Clarence House of deliberately glossing over the fact that Camilla will automatically be queen unless there is new legislation.

"I think there has been, shall we say, a certain lack of candor from the outset," he told the BBC.

John Adamson of Cambridge University, however, supported the royals' view, and said the Lord Chancellor, Lord Falconer, had misread the constitution. "He has muddled again," he told AP. "

The question is already discussed in legal journals... so I guess it's really open what will happen. If legislation is needed, I don't see this happen when the whole commonwealth (and the rest of the world) looks on while Charles mourns his beloved mother. Afterwards it's a fait accompli, IMHO. And that's what Charles wants.
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  #669  
Old 01-15-2007, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judy_PD
Personally i'd not like the idea of Camilla being Queen at all. I think it'd ruin some opinions of Diana's memory.
Next thing, someone will be saying they don't want Camilla to be Queen because the title belongs to Queen Elizabeth and will downgrade her memory once she's gone.
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  #670  
Old 01-15-2007, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
The question is already discussed in legal journals... so I guess it's really open what will happen. If legislation is needed, I don't see this happen when the whole commonwealth (and the rest of the world) looks on while Charles mourns his beloved mother. Afterwards it's a fait accompli, IMHO. And that's what Charles wants.
The precedents in constitutional law and practice are clear, including the 1936 citations. There is no basis for the wife of the King not being Queen Consort without consent from Parliament.

I'm not saying Camilla won't be Princess Consort, she may very well be depending on the political temperature at the time. But there is no basis in the law to deny her the rank and title of Queen.
  #671  
Old 01-15-2007, 05:50 PM
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I wonder what Lady Gabriella would wear to the occasion?
Stunning dress, a tiara maybe?
Does anyone have any idea?
  #672  
Old 01-15-2007, 05:59 PM
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She'd probably wear a dress and a tiara with evening gloves and any decorations she may have picked up by then.
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  #673  
Old 01-15-2007, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Next thing, someone will be saying they don't want Camilla to be Queen because the title belongs to Queen Elizabeth and will downgrade her memory once she's gone.


The only way I can see the Diana faction making a point about not giving Camilla the title Queen because of Diana's having died is if Charles and Diana were married at the time of her death and Charles then turned around and married Camilla. Wife dies, you turn around and marry your mistress giving her all the titles your deceased wife had? Okay, point taken. I can see how that would appear unseemly.

Unfortunately, that's not what happened here. They were divorced, he remarried 7 or so years after she died. No one's memory will be trampled on here.
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  #674  
Old 01-15-2007, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
She'd probably wear a dress and a tiara with evening gloves and any decorations she may have picked up by then.

Not to mention some tasteful heels and maybe some neutral makeup. Don't want to go overboard during a day-time function.
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  #675  
Old 01-15-2007, 09:11 PM
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Heels would be a mistake. She'll be standing for a very long time. She wants a nice long frock right down to the floor so that she can wear a pair of house slippers!
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  #676  
Old 01-15-2007, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Heels would be a mistake. She'll be standing for a very long time. She wants a nice long frock right down to the floor so that she can wear a pair of house slippers!


Nah, I want to see some bunny slippers. Nothing screams "solemnity" and "tradition" like a bunny nose sticking out from the bottom of someone's dress.
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  #677  
Old 01-16-2007, 04:22 AM
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It is very interesting. She will be queen, that is the one thing we all agree on. The only question is what will she be "known as". Let us say for the sake of the argument there is an extra title of PC created and she uses that, but she legally remains queen. This is the position as I understand it, but for the sake of this post let's accept that as a premise.

What then happens at the coronation? For she is legally, and will always be, Queen of England, nor have I ever seen it suggested that legislation would be passed stripping her of that rank and title. Ergo, it would seem to me that even if she were to be "known as" the then-conferred PC title, she would still need to be crowned and need to go through the whole ceremony.

Which makes the "Princess Consort" bit that much more risible when you think about it. Yet - the RF, and Clarence House, are not backing off the Princess Consort thing. Why? Why don't they just reverse it? What is the delay on this.
  #678  
Old 01-16-2007, 05:06 AM
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But why would they (Clarence House or Buckingham Palace) back away from the statement if it is still their belief and intent that Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall shall upon the succession of her husband and King, be officially styled (by way of parliamentary support and intervention) HRH the Princess Consort?

We are all aware this can be enacted and enacted it may just be.

If Clarence House maintains that is is still their intent, then it is still their intent until otherwise made clear. Though, just because it is their intent does not guarantee it shall come to fruition. It really is just a waiting game for us, the public.

Added: And just because it may be a 'prerogative' of the next Royal era, does not mean it shall receive any great backing of the King's government.
  #679  
Old 01-16-2007, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
If Clarence House maintains that is is still their intent, then it is still their intent until otherwise made clear. Though, just because it is their intent does not guarantee it shall come to fruition. It really is just a waiting game for the public.
For one there is no need to act rashly with this matter. The queen is still alive, she seems to be quite healthy and if her mother is an example to take into account, it could be decades till Charles accedes to the throne - if he accedes at all... (meaning that he is not getting any younger and his grand-fathers were not that old when they died: George VI. was 57 years old and died of lung cancer, while Andrew of Greece was 62 when he died of natural causes.) Mind, I don't hope it is going this way but it's still a possibility...

Times works for Charles and Camilla. It has been said at the time of the wedding that it has been Camilla's wish to remain one step behind her husband. It is certainly not something traditionalists like the queen or the POW wish themselves. But it seemed reasonable when one remembers the polls about the public's opinion prior to the wedding. At that time IMHO the most important step was to introduce Camilla into the RF and to see that she got the HRH-style without creating a public outcry. For that aim giving the public the information about a lower title for Camilla worked perfectly. Camilla is now accepted as HRH. In Scotland she is even accepted as the Duchess of Rothesay.

And the polls show that people come to like Camilla - even the media has decided that she's no longer worth inventing negative things about her. She is presented as warm-hearted, caring, compassionate and the pictures published show that the people she meets enjoy being with her. Now think about the future: who will want to strip this formidable and likeable Royal lady who so obviously makes her husband happy of a title that is hers by law? I'm convinced Clarence House already has found the right experts on constitutional law to come up to the then grieving couple and tell that that it's very difficult to get rid of the constitutional position of a queen. And then the new king and his wife will gracefully give in after polls will have shown that the public wants king Charles (or George) and his wife Camilla (who may even adopt a "Royal name" herself, as queen Mary did IIRC - wasn't she Victoria Mary of Teck?)....

And long live the king and his queen!
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  #680  
Old 01-16-2007, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Times works for Charles and Camilla. It has been said at the time of the wedding that it has been Camilla's wish to remain one step behind her husband. It is certainly not something traditionalists like the queen or the POW wish themselves. But it seemed reasonable when one remembers the polls about the public's opinion prior to the wedding. At that time IMHO the most important step was to introduce Camilla into the RF and to see that she got the HRH-style without creating a public outcry. For that aim giving the public the information about a lower title for Camilla worked perfectly. Camilla is now accepted as HRH. In Scotland she is even accepted as the Duchess of Rothesay.
It is every consorts obligation to remain one step behind their spouse and sovereign though, Jo. Not just Camilla

I totally see what you'e saying, but if the mood has changed within the Wales camp, then it should be aplty made clear so as to diffuse any future misunderstanding that may arise. Its one thing to re think the possibility but to withold that knoweldge, in my mind, is not something I view as particularly helpful.

Also, the public's perception of Camilla has become what I thought it would, greatly tolerant and supportive yet most (those who take a keen interest aside) have been lead to believe (and still are) that Camilla is likely to be created Princess Consort which was met with much approval when announced. The best possible time for retraction has now passed in my mind (the best time to do that would have been when the PofW website was re-developed) and so it is now left to when the possibility shall come into play, if it comes into play.

See, it is very likely that the public (those of us who support the Duchess or are better aware, aside) could feel they have been mislead and that is where the problem would arise. If that can be averted then I say take that opportunity and do it asap. If there's one family who knows a thing or two about just how fast public approval can change, then surely its the Windsor's.

I maintain that I wish for the Duchess to be officially created Princess Consort but if she is not then that's the way it is and I will certainly accept it. There is no issue of that.
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