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  #541  
Old 01-12-2007, 10:49 PM
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I see what you are saying, but public polls don't have anything to do with the succession. It is not a popularity vote!

Camilla will automatically become Queen Consort when Charles becomes king. I know it's claimed now that the title won't be used and that she will be known as the Princess Consort, but I'm not sure. We are talking a fair way down the track and Charles is a man used to having his own way...
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  #542  
Old 01-12-2007, 10:58 PM
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I know public polls don't have directly effect on sucession. They are related though because, the monarchy represents the people. So they are important in some respect.

This is all merely speculation and it is hard to say what will happen in the future. Should Charles become King and Camilla uses the title Queen, I wonder what the public will think. I am hoping she won't, especially since if was made clear when they got married that she would never use that title out of respect to Diana. You are right Charles seems to always get his way in the end.
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  #543  
Old 01-12-2007, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theprincess
I know public polls don't have directly effect on sucession. They are related though because, the monarchy represents the people. So they are important in some respect.

This is all merely speculation and it is hard to say what will happen in the future. Should Charles become King and Camilla uses the title Queen, I wonder what the public will think. I am hoping she won't, especially since if was made clear when they got married that she would never use that title out of respect to Diana. You are right Charles seems to always get his way in the end.
Can you post a link where Camilla says that she will never use the title Queen out of respect for Diana?

The wording I remember was that CH announced that she intended to be known as Princess Consort. Nothing about respect for Diana and no use of the word never.
  #544  
Old 01-12-2007, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
Can you post a link where Camilla says that she will never use the title Queen out of respect for Diana?

The wording I remember was that CH announced that she intended to be known as Princess Consort. Nothing about respect for Diana and no use of the word never.
i dont know my question but hard think myself

but Camilla cant become Queen of England dues respectives of lates Diana,Princess of Wales because Diana is People's Princess and Diana is Queen of Hearts she told interview in 1995.

so mostly people wanted to remind of late Diana,Princess of Wales lots after she died for almost 10 years its 9 years.

in 1980's Camilla and Diana known each other since watch horse race and they later Diana haters Camilla because Diana told Charles went see Camilla lots since Harry's birth in 1984
  #545  
Old 01-12-2007, 11:29 PM
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The question is not whether Camilla will become Queen or not. The wife of a man who succeeds the throne as king automically becomes Queen Consort.

The question is whether or not Charles and Camilla decide that, out of respect for the memory of Charles' first wife Diana, the title Princess Consort, rather than Queen Consort is used, in the same way that Camilla is now referred to as the Duchess of Cornwall, rather than Princess of Wales, which she technically is.
  #546  
Old 01-12-2007, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
Can you post a link where Camilla says that she will never use the title Queen out of respect for Diana?

The wording I remember was that CH announced that she intended to be known as Princess Consort. Nothing about respect for Diana and no use of the word never.
I don't believe that Diana was actually mentioned by name. However, it is certainly implied. Especially since the couple needed to be sensitive to the public's feeling and the fact that Diana has not be dead long and is Prince William's mother.
  #547  
Old 01-12-2007, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sara1981
i dont know my question but hard think myself

but Camilla cant become Queen of England dues respectives of lates Diana,Princess of Wales because Diana is People's Princess and Diana is Queen of Hearts she told interview in 1995.

so mostly people wanted to remind of late Diana,Princess of Wales lots after she died for almost 10 years its 9 years.

in 1980's Camilla and Diana known each other since watch horse race and they later Diana haters Camilla because Diana told Charles went see Camilla lots since Harry's birth in 1984

This is incorrect. When Charles becomes King, legally she will be Queen Camilla. Whether she'll choose to use that style is unknown, and the more I read about the situation and whatnot, the more I think she ought to. To say that she "can't" use the title Queen is a fallacy. Yes Diana was the Princess of Wales and WOULD have been Queen, but they divorced before she died so it became a moot point. Camilla owes Diana's ardent supporters nothing, really. If she uses the title "Queen" she'll be castigated by one group of people. If she uses "Princess Consort" (which is a rank below what she'd be by marriage and would need a Letters Patent to use it) it would have her castigated by the other.

In respect to her future title usage, she cannot make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time.
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  #548  
Old 01-12-2007, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sara1981
i dont know my question but hard think myself

but Camilla cant become Queen of England dues respectives of lates Diana,Princess of Wales because Diana is People's Princess and Diana is Queen of Hearts she told interview in 1995.
Sara, it doesn't matter how many times you repeat this stuff about "Camilla cant become Queen of England," it isn't true. Not only can she become Queen of England, but if her husband becomes King, she becomes Queen automatically. It'll take an act of Parliament to stop it happening.

While it was appropriate for her to not call herself Princess of Wales out of respect for Diana, who had held the title herself for several years, Diana was never Queen (and claiming to be queen of people's hearts doesn't count), so Camilla isn't taking over the title from a previous wife.

If Prince Charles becomes King, you'd better get used to hearing people talking about Queen Camilla, because without special legislation to stop it, that's what she'll be whether you like it or not.
  #549  
Old 01-12-2007, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Sara, it doesn't matter how many times you repeat this stuff about "Camilla cant become Queen of England," it isn't true. Not only can she become Queen of England, but if her husband becomes King, she becomes Queen automatically. It'll take an act of Parliament to stop it happening.

While it was appropriate for her to not call herself Princess of Wales out of respect for Diana, who had held the title herself for several years, Diana was never Queen (and claiming to be queen of people's hearts doesn't count), so Camilla isn't taking over the title from a previous wife.

If Prince Charles becomes King, you'd better get used to hearing people talking about Queen Camilla, because without special legislation to stop it, that's what she'll be whether you like it or not.
alright with me
  #550  
Old 01-12-2007, 11:54 PM
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Although I do seem to remember at the time of the 2005 wedding that Camilla would be styled "Princess Consort" after her husband becomes king. Does anyone else remember that?
  #551  
Old 01-13-2007, 12:11 AM
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"When the Prince of Wales, 56, becomes king, 57-year-old Camilla will not be known as Queen Camilla but as the Princess Consort, Clarence House added"
-Quote from BBC article linked below

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4252795.stm
  #552  
Old 01-13-2007, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theprincess
"When the Prince of Wales, 56, becomes king, 57-year-old Camilla will not be known as Queen Camilla but as the Princess Consort, Clarence House added"
-Quote from BBC article linked below

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4252795.stm

However my original question hasn't been answered?

Namely where did Camilla say that she would NEVER use the title out of respect to Diana?

She didn't as far as I remmber.

The wording was 'intends to be known as'.

Not the same thing as NEVER and OUT OF RESPECT FOR DIANA.

I personally never read it as implied that it was done out of respect for Diana but to show that Camilla is an individual who will use a title not used since 1901 and then only in conjuction with Duchess of York and only for about 10/11 months. Prior to that short period you have to go back a long way, if at all to find a Duchess of Cornwall.

After that announcement, questions were asked in Parliament and the responses were that Yes she will be Princess of Wales on marrying the Prince of Wales but it using the female of one of his other titles (the one he has held for the longest time and the one that William will inherit automatically on the death of the Queen, assuming Charles is still alive) and that Yes she will be Queen and that to stop her will need an Act of Parliament, which will have to be passed AFTER she becomes Queen.
  #553  
Old 01-13-2007, 12:20 AM
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I don't recall Camilla herself making any comment about names and titles at all.

The announcement came from Clarence House I think.

However, I don't think Camilla chose to be known as Duchess of Cornwall, rather than Princess of Wales, only because she is an "individual". It was also chosen out of sensitivity (the public's as well) for the former recent holder of the title, Diana.
  #554  
Old 01-13-2007, 12:26 AM
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That may have been an initial reaction that might change with time.
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  #555  
Old 01-13-2007, 12:31 AM
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I think so as well.
  #556  
Old 01-13-2007, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
I don't recall Camilla herself making any comment about names and titles at all.

The announcement came from Clarence House I think.

However, I don't think Camilla chose to be known as Duchess of Cornwall, rather than Princess of Wales, only because she is an "individual". It was also chosen out of sensitivity (the public's as well) for the former recent holder of the title, Diana.
I personally don't think Princess of Wales suits her. Charles has been known for years, as Prince of Wales so it works, but at Camilla's age I think Duchess of Cornwall sounds better than Princess of Wales would have. It has a certain regal sound that suits her better. I want to make sure that everyone understands that this isn't to say she isn't entitled to using it or that I think she shouldn't. I just think Camilla has a sense of style that matches this title better.
  #557  
Old 01-13-2007, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
However my original question hasn't been answered?
Namely where did Camilla say that she would NEVER use the title out of respect to Diana?
She didn't as far as I remmber.
The wording was 'intends to be known as'.
Not the same thing as NEVER and OUT OF RESPECT FOR DIANA.

I personally never read it as implied that it was done out of respect for Diana but to show that Camilla is an individual who will use a title not used since 1901 and then only in conjuction with Duchess of York and only for about 10/11 months. Prior to that short period you have to go back a long way, if at all to find a Duchess of Cornwall.
No need to get worked up about this. We are all having a friendly discussion here and everyone is doing there best to be kind and respectful to each other.

If you read previous posts, I never said that Camilla herself was quoted as saying that she would not use the title queen out of respect for Diana. What I did say was "it was made clear when they got married that she would never use that title out of respect to Diana.'' Meaning, Clarence House issued a statement on behalf of the couple, so there is no direct quote from either camilla or charles about the matter. Perhaps I should have made that clear.

Here is the quote from Clarence House:
''A spokesman said: 'It is Mrs Parker Bowles’s wish and the Prince’s that she be known as Princess Consort when he accedes to the throne.
'We have always believed that if the government of the day felt that legislation was required to clarify the situation, that would be the appropriate action.' ''
from: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=306082005

The above article also mentions Diana:
''Polls say most people do not think Mrs Parker Bowles should have a title many had hoped would one day be held by Diana, Princess of Wales''

Based on this it certainly appears that the reason behind this decision did have something to do with Diana. If Charles hadn't been married before, the issue of Camilia one day being called 'Queen' would never had been an issue. However, whether Camilia and Charles stick by this and she will known as ''Princess Consort'' we don't know.
  #558  
Old 01-13-2007, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theprincess
No need to get worked up about this. We are all having a friendly discussion here and everyone is doing there best to be kind and respectful to each other.

If you read previous posts,
Kind and respectful and then you imply that I don't read posts!


Quote:
I never said that Camilla herself was quoted as saying that she would not use the title queen out of respect for Diana. What I did say was "it was made clear when they got married that she would never use that title out of respect to Diana.'' Meaning, Clarence House issued a statement on behalf of the couple, so there is no direct quote from either camilla or charles about the matter. Perhaps I should have made that clear.

It would have made more sense had you said that statements were issued that said that Camilla had indicated what titles she was to use.

Quote:
Here is the quote from Clarence House:
''A spokesman said: 'It is Mrs Parker Bowles’s wish and the Prince’s that she be known as Princess Consort when he accedes to the throne.
'We have always believed that if the government of the day felt that legislation was required to clarify the situation, that would be the appropriate action.' ''
from: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=306082005
Note: No use of the word NEVER which you used originally. It was this word that stood out as I had never heard/read any announcement that indicated that Camilla and/or Charles had ever said that she would never use the title. That was your word and yours alone.

Quote:
The above article also mentions Diana:
''Polls say most people do not think Mrs Parker Bowles should have a title many had hoped would one day be held by Diana, Princess of Wales''

Based on this it certainly appears that the reason behind this decision did have something to do with Diana. If Charles hadn't been married before, the issue of Camilia one day being called 'Queen' would never had been an issue. However, whether Camilia and Charles stick by this and she will known as ''Princess Consort'' we don't know.
As this article was written some 41 days AFTER the engagement announcement and thus the announcement of the titles planned the reference to any polls here doesn't support your claim that the decision was done out of respect for Diana.

If there were polls published BEFORE the engagement announcement that suggested what titles Camilla should have that might have had a bearing but polls done AFTER have no bearing on the decision making process.

Even if there are polls taken BEFORE all that would indicate is that they were respecting public opinion not whether they made a decision out of respect for Diana personally.
  #559  
Old 01-13-2007, 05:15 AM
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I think Camilla would have no problem with being either Queen Camilla or Princess Consort. It is not her decision anyway. It is the decision of Charles's office and the parliament. But I cannot see once Charles becomes king, why should Camilla not be called Queen Camilla? Personally I will regard it as an very large laughing stock for the whole world and humilation for both King Charles III and the monarchy itself? It is unreasonable and unfair. Moreoever it means Charles lacks the power of kingship even to protect the proper right of his legal wife! And I would feel a great loss if Charles did not become King Charles III!

My taxation law lecturer said he thought British monarchy was irrelevent. And he commented that he thought royal family was a dysfuctional family. I think kingship after the Queen is really important for the survival of the monarchy. I believe that Charles will be a good king to reserve the monarchy and make changes because he always holds a deep thought for the country and the people. Past is past. Divorce seemed to be a very ususal thing for his generation and his group "People like us". Prince William needs to learn so much from his life. I doubt that he will display a very strong kingship until he have enough experience and earned more respects.

And people have idea of the future of the commonwealth?
  #560  
Old 01-13-2007, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
It's only the opinion of the British people that matters. Nobody else. Why should it worry anyone else? If they don't like the way we do things, they can always create Royal Houses of their own and dictate to them.
Well, the Commonwealth countries have the right to be consulted as well, BF. The Queen is still head of government of many countries other than Britain.
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