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  #521  
Old 10-03-2006, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
It would be a total farce if Camilla was to legally be HM The Queen but styled by a title and rank inferior to her rightful status.

snip part of message

This is a ridiculous notion and I cannot imagine any Prime Minister or Parliament agreeing to allow The King to issue letters patent stripping his wife of her constitutional right to be HM.
Especially as this must happen in the direct aftermath of the queen's passing away. I mean, how would that look like? What kind of image would new king Charles show to his new subjects? Instead of mourning the beloved queen he takes the time to reduce the wife he himself choose and married in her rightful status? Who would dare ask that of him? It really is ridiculous, there's no other word for it.
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  #522  
Old 10-03-2006, 09:24 AM
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In my view, if they really were opposed to Camilla becoming Queen Consort, then Charles should never have been allowed to marry her in the first place. If he continued to insist, then he should have renounced his place in the line of succession in favor of William.

This is political nonsense and the monarchy has to be above all that.
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  #523  
Old 10-03-2006, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
In my view, if they really were opposed to Camilla becoming Queen Consort, then Charles should never have been allowed to marry her in the first place. If he continued to insist, then he should have renounced his place in the line of succession in favor of William.

This is political nonsense and the monarchy has to be above all that.
Yes, you're right.
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  #524  
Old 10-03-2006, 03:40 PM
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please don't be upset if I post something about the political situation in Britain but I believe this could have an impact on "king Charles and queen Camilla".

I never thought for a moment that Charles had an easy way leading to his marriage to Camilla when it comes to HM's government: the last real glimpse of a successful Tony Blair was his calling the late Diana "The people's princess" - he quite deteriorated a bit since then, IMHO. So how could he appear a supporter of Charles and Camilla without loosing his face? I'm not sure but I could well believe that the fact that Camilla should never become "queen" (of hearts or Great Britain) but always stay the "king's princess" or "Princess Consort" was an idea of the government, not the Royal Family.

So I believed that as long as Tony Blair of the "people's princess" fame was controlling the power, there would be no chance for a real recognition of Camilla as the future queen. Too much a risk for any politician who does not think in aions but elections.

Now there's two new men: Gordon Brown or David Cameron.
David Cameron is 39 or so I read. Thus, he was just a teenager when Diana married Charles. A young teenie at that. I don't think he feels any emotional attachment towards the late Diana. I could be wrong, of course. But it just doesn't seem to be plausible that a man of his age and aim (and political party) should work against the established couple of Charles and Camilla. If the public does not support a anti-position towards them (he is a politician in the rise, after all), but they obviously don't.

And Gordon Brown? Hmmm, he has an interest in getting support in the establishment as well.

So finally there might be a chance for Charles to get the recognition for Camilla he surely wants and which she deserves.

Just a point of view form Germany, of course.
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  #525  
Old 10-03-2006, 03:43 PM
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Jo - spot on and I've tried to say it before and have been told I was reading too much into things. Cameron is pro-Charles because they share interests with regard to the environment and Cameron has said how much he admires Charles. Brown is a well known Republican and could be difficult but if he does become PM, he wont be PM for long and the Queen will soon put him in his place.
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  #526  
Old 10-03-2006, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I've tried to say it before and have been told I was reading too much into things.
Reading too much into things? When it comes to politics and loosing a face in public? I'Ve been a journalist for more than 20 years and if there is anything that may make politicians move or keep their position, it's their opinion on how the public would view something...

And it makes sense with Tony Blair: he used the public outcry after Diana's death so much for his own aims that there has been no chance of a review of his position at all. Ánd it is within the Labour party's political aims to reduce the Royal family and the monarchy to a smaller scale than they currently inhabit....
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  #527  
Old 10-03-2006, 03:53 PM
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Indeed. This Labour lot have been quite Conservative so they haven't posed a threat to the Royal Family - the Tories never do. But Gordon Brown is likely to lead things away from New Labour and back to old Labour - however, he has got the problem of being Scottish so he's playing a big, "Britishness" card and in one speech, he listed the Queen as an important symbol of Britishness so one never knows.
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  #528  
Old 10-03-2006, 04:34 PM
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Giving your views and opinions is perfectly fine but let's not turn this discussion into a political one.
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  #529  
Old 10-03-2006, 08:35 PM
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Blair didn't want the issue to become a hot potato before the general election. So they fudged around until MP's starting digging deeper to find out what Camilla's status would really be upon marriage. It certainly was not made clear initially.

Personally, I don't think Blair really cared one way or another unless he thought Labour would lose seats because of his approval of the marriage.
  #530  
Old 10-04-2006, 06:42 AM
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In your discussion about Camillas´ title when Charles will be king, you shouldn´t forget the time factor.
The Queen seems to be with 80years in the best of health, so hopefully she will reign for a couple of years. And i think, the time is playing for Charles and Camilla.
The polls are changing since their marriage, more and more people are thinking positive about Camilla as a person and about her work as a Duchess. The press sometimes wants to show the old pic of an unpopular Camilla, but more people think in a different way (i hope).
Maybe there will be more than one elected Prime Minister, till the question of a Queen Camilla will be of current interest. So it is hard to talk about the political opinion when it will be time for the new King and Queen.
I know that one day we will have an exellent King (as Charles III or with another name ?) and i´m more and more optimistic that we will have a Queen Camilla at his side!
  #531  
Old 10-04-2006, 09:18 AM
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The Queen is in excellent health and could reign another 15 years. By the time Charles comes to the throne, there should be no issue with Camilla being Queen Consort and his reign would be relatively short anyway.
  #532  
Old 10-04-2006, 10:28 AM
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branchg, you have solved the problem! I never considered a 95-year-old Queen (although I should have, since she seems to be blessed with her mother's good health).
  #533  
Old 10-04-2006, 02:44 PM
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wonder how big HIS coronation will be as opposed to his mothers in 1953.
  #534  
Old 10-04-2006, 08:39 PM
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Talking The Queen's reign

Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
The Queen is in excellent health and could reign another 15 years. By the time Charles comes to the throne, there should be no issue with Camilla being Queen Consort and his reign would be relatively short anyway.
Or Her Majesty could reign for another twenty years!!
  #535  
Old 10-05-2006, 06:09 AM
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I just read an article claiming that the English word for queen derives from the Anglo-Saxon "cwen". That I had known before. But what I did not know is that around 800 an Anglo-Saxon king was accidentally poisoned by his wife, his "regina", as they used to say then and in reaction the next king decided that no wife should again hold the title "regina" to the king's "rex". He introduced the word "cwen" for the king's wife, which means - "consort" or "companion".

I had a hearty laugh when I learned of this, because if "queen" and "consort" is one and the same linguistically, then why is there such a fight over Camilla's future title?
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  #536  
Old 10-05-2006, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
I just read an article claiming that the English word for queen derives from the Anglo-Saxon "cwen". That I had known before. But what I did not know is that around 800 an Anglo-Saxon king was accidentally poisoned by his wife, his "regina", as they used to say then and in reaction the next king decided that no wife should again hold the title "regina" to the king's "rex". He introduced the word "cwen" for the king's wife, which means - "consort" or "companion".

Thanks for that Jo.
  #537  
Old 01-09-2007, 01:39 PM
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My opinion is if Camilla is winning over the masses then what is the problem with her being known as Queen Camilla once Charles' reign starts? Or is that too simple of a question to ask? Is it the public opinion (UK's) that matters? Please educate me.
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  #538  
Old 01-10-2007, 12:37 PM
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Well, Charles's coronation won't be that smaller than his mother's but the guests will be representing different things. There'll certainly be more political and religious dignitaries and those who represented the Empire in 1953 will simply represent the Commonwealth. So I don't think we'll see a smaller coronation - maybe it'll be bigger given the new countries we have which come with their own new representatives.

It's only the opinion of the British people that matters. Nobody else. Why should it worry anyone else? If they don't like the way we do things, they can always create Royal Houses of their own and dictate to them.
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  #539  
Old 01-10-2007, 01:42 PM
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I guess it depends on what you mean my smaller. I am sure that they have the max. amount of people that can fit into Westminister so there will probably be the same amount of people as Queen Elizabeth. Who is invitied might change. The ceremony hasn't changed much since it started so they might be able to make it shorter but it will be more or less the same. However, with the Queen ceremony there was nothing for Philip, since Camilla might also be crowned or have some part in the ceremony Charles coronation might end up being even longer. In addition William and Harry will be old enough to also participate and IIRC the Royal Family might be a lot bigger. My guess is that it is going to be bigger than the Queen's unless they alter the program drastically.

ETA: The Queen ceremony included three royal dukes (Edinburgh, Gloucester and Kent)
Charles will have - Cornwall (William) X (Harry) York (Andrew) Wessex or Edinburgh (Edward) Glouester (Richard) Kent (Edward) and I would guess Prince Michael of Kent. Of those only The Duke of Kent took part in the 1952 coronation, although I think that Prince Michael attened, The Duke of GLoucester brother was also there (Prince William) but I don't know if he was (he would have been 8 at the time)
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  #540  
Old 01-12-2007, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
If he chooses to abdicate, he'll have to already be King. Are you talking about if he decides to remove himself from the line of succession while he's still Prince of Wales? I assume there'd be a way to do it, but I don't think there's any precedent.
Yes I was thinking that he removes himself from sucession while the queen is still alive. Perhaps with the Queen's approval/guidence. This is all very unlikely, I know. Just thinking about 'what if...''. I don't know to much about this subject and what the precedent for this is. I just know that public polls seem to favour William becoming the next king, and there is the issue of whether Camilla will ever be given the title of 'Queen'. I believe it has been said that she will not use this title, even if Charlas becomes King.
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