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  #441  
Old 09-09-2006, 05:17 AM
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I would like you all to imagine the scene ....

Huge banquet, 100's of guests, we have had the majority of the 12 courses and are waiting for desert, cheese and biscuits, the port..... The toastmaster stands and bangs the table to get our attention and says ..

Lords, Ladies and Gentlemen, pray raise your glasses in a toast to King Charles and Queen Camilla, also known as Camilla the Princess Consort, also known as Mrs Charles Mountbatten-Windsor, also known as the former Mrs Parker Bowles, also known as Bozo ....
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  #442  
Old 09-09-2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
I would like you all to imagine the scene ....

Huge banquet, 100's of guests, we have had the majority of the 12 courses and are waiting for desert, cheese and biscuits, the port..... The toastmaster stands and bangs the table to get our attention and says ..

Lords, Ladies and Gentlemen, pray raise your glasses in a toast to King Charles and Queen Camilla, also known as Camilla the Princess Consort, also known as Mrs Charles Mountbatten-Windsor, also known as the former Mrse Parker Bowles, also known as Bozo ....
Now, it's all your fault, Skydragon! I fall off the chair! Mrs Bozo is too funny.
For the sake of all toastmakers, Camilla should be known as Queen!
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  #443  
Old 09-09-2006, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
also known as Bozo ....
now I wonder what would go in front of Bozo?

Her Majesty Bozo
Her Royal Hghness Bozo
Her Most Excellent Bozo
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  #444  
Old 09-09-2006, 09:25 PM
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HRH Bozo, The Princess Consort
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  #445  
Old 09-09-2006, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine
HRH Bozo, The Princess Consort


Imagine having to sign that on official documentation, no matter what the style and title.

Its good to have a laugh, as I am sure you will all agree
  #446  
Old 09-10-2006, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale


Imagine having to sign that on official documentation, no matter what the style and title.

Its good to have a laugh, as I am sure you will all agree


Yes, I completely agree.


TBH, the people who staunchy feel that Camilla should be styled as The Princess Consort probably don't give two you-know-whats about the name in front of that.
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  #447  
Old 09-10-2006, 01:14 AM
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While I would, personally, prefer Camilla to be known officially as HRH the Princess Consort, it shall not be the end of the world by any stretch of the imagination if she is not and as I have stated, I will surely accept it in good faith and will think of her no differently to any of her continental counterparts and nor should I.
  #448  
Old 09-10-2006, 01:38 AM
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Can someone explain the "Bozo" reference?
  #449  
Old 09-10-2006, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incas
Can someone explain the "Bozo" reference?

Quite simple. Read this post.


King Charles and Queen Camilla
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  #450  
Old 09-10-2006, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
While I would, personally, prefer for Camilla to be known officially as HRH the Princess Consort, it shall not be the end of the world by any stretch of the imagination if she is not and as I have stated, I will surely accept it in good faith and will think of her no differently to any of her continental counterparts and nor should I.
Princess Consort is not the end of the world but I wonder what people can do with the titile of future King William's wife? Will they call her Princess Consort again? In my views, the titles of Kings' wives should be consitent.Even Camilla does not bear any Charles's child, she is his legal wife and that's why she should not only hold the legal title of Queen Consort but also have the right to use it when Charles is on the throne. Princess Consort does not change my view on Camilla because I have good faith in her. However using Princess Consort may cause more problems in the future and future historical criticism. I wish Clarence House has never said such a thing.
  #451  
Old 09-10-2006, 01:55 AM
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Well, it is my stance and I'm sticking with it.lol. It is an opinion made by an indavidual for the indavidual and I do not expect, nor do I look for agreeance from within this forum. I totally respect anyone's opinion who want's Camilla to be referred to as HM the Queen and I would like to think that the same courtesy could be shown to me

I know we are only re-hashing here, but we all know that Camilla will, upon the accession of her husband HRH the Prince of Wales be, his lawful Queen. No one is, I believe, disputing this fact. My reasons for supporting the alternative proposal are mine and mine alone and I may or may not wish to air them within this forum to the extent as some have as I feel that such thoughts may draw criticism that could in turn contribute undue animosity to the discussion and thats the last thing I want or seek to do.

No one truly knows the 'concequences' it may or may not have. We are just a group of indaviduals surmising over a situation that may or may not occur, nothing more.

Either way, Camilla has my support.
  #452  
Old 09-10-2006, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by love_cc
Princess Consort is not the end of the world but I wonder what people can do with the titile of future King William's wife? Will they call her Princess Consort again? In my views, the titles of Kings' wives should be consitent.Even Camilla does not bear any Charles's child, she is his legal wife and that's why she should not only hold the legal title of Queen Consort but also have the right to use it when Charles is on the throne. Princess Consort does not change my view on Camilla because I have good faith in her. However using Princess Consort may cause more problems in the future and future historical criticism. I wish Clarence House has never said such a thing.
I completely agree. I understand why Camilla (and others around her)decided for her to be called the Duchess of Cornwall instead of the Princess of Wales. The Wales title was too connected with Diana and it was just easier to be called the Duchess of Cornwall. However, after the divorce, Diana had no chance of becoming Queen Consort and she never was Queen Consort so Camilla has every right to that title without question. Also, William's wife should have the titles Princess of Wales and Queen Consort because if his wife gets the titles of the Duchess of Cornwall/Princess Consort, that is just ridiculous.
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  #453  
Old 09-10-2006, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Once Charles is King, Camilla shares his rank and become HM The Queen. Unlike the present situation, there is no other style or title she may hold as the wife of the King without raising the question of a morganatic marriage. Therefore, Parliament must act with legislation to clarify her status and grant approval for the wife of the King to hold a lesser rank and title. The King cannot act alone on this matter.
Branchq,

I am truly sorry to disagree with you again and drag the thread into 'yes it is, no it isn't'-itis.

But can't you see that despite your repeated assertion of this statement:

Quote:
Unlike the present situation, there is no other style or title she may hold as the wife of the King without raising the question of a morganatic marriage. Therefore, Parliament must act with legislation to clarify her status and grant approval for the wife of the King to hold a lesser rank and title.
That I have provided actual evidence from the government that you are wrong, and that legislation will NOT be needed for her to hold a lesser rank and title and use it?

Here's my evidence one more time:

Quote:
A Department for Constitutional Affairs spokeswoman confirmed that legislation would be needed for Camilla not to become Queen automatically on Charles's succession.

"I think traditionally that's probably the case because in all similar circumstances in the past in past royal marriages that is what has happened," said the spokeswoman.

"But I think she is not going to be referred to as Queen, she will be referred to as the Princess Consort." Asked about the position of other countries where the Prince of Wales would become head of state on his succession, the spokeswoman replied: "I think you are right in thinking it would require legislation for her not to be Queen."
We are talking about letters patent to gazette the woman with a new own-right (not marriage, Branch, own right) Princess of the UK title like Philip was made an own-right Prince. And that she then use that title.

Right now, I am arguing a position and I am backing up with evidence and links, and you are just repeating your assertion. You say the government will need to legislate and I am providing a government spokeswoman from the relevant department who says otherwise.

Can you counter this with something other than repeating the assertion that legislation will be needed, because I have proved that the government has said it will not. The only case in which a law would be needed would be to deny her the legal status of queen and we all know that won't happen. The question of her style and title as Princess Consort is another thing entirely.
  #454  
Old 09-10-2006, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Princess Consort is not the end of the world but I wonder what people can do with the titile of future King William's wife? Will they call her Princess Consort again? In my views, the titles of Kings' wives should be consitent.Even Camilla does not bear any Charles's child, she is his legal wife and that's why she should not only hold the legal title of Queen Consort but also have the right to use it when Charles is on the throne. Princess Consort does not change my view on Camilla because I have good faith in her. However using Princess Consort may cause more problems in the future and future historical criticism. I wish Clarence House has never said such a thing.



I agree with you 100%. I want the madeness to stop and everybody go back to the titles of precedent. Unfortunately I think there's no chance of that unless Charles steps up and demands it.

No matter how many times I click the I button on this post italics do not go off, sorry about them!
  #455  
Old 09-10-2006, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by love_cc
In my views, the titles of Kings' wives should be consitent.Even Camilla does not bear any Charles's child, she is his legal wife and that's why she should not only hold the legal title of Queen Consort but also have the right to use it when Charles is on the throne. Princess Consort does not change my view on Camilla because I have good faith in her. However using Princess Consort may cause more problems in the future and future historical criticism.
I agree with you, if you start to change 'tradition' then where does it all end?
  #456  
Old 09-10-2006, 06:39 AM
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I do agree with Skydragon and love_cc, if there is indeed going to be a legislation, which will indicate that Camilla should be Princess Consort (though I don't believe there will), it should not stop there. It will be simply humiliating, if Camilla will be known as Princess Consort and then every other wife of the King after her will be known as Queen again.
It's like breaking traditions for one woman and then going back to them. And if they don't go back to them and all future Consorts will be known as Princess Consorts, it's even worse.
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  #457  
Old 09-10-2006, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
A Department for Constitutional Affairs spokeswoman confirmed that legislation would be needed for Camilla not to become Queen automatically on Charles's succession.
"But I think she is not going to be referred to as Queen, she will be referred to as the Princess Consort." Asked about the position of other countries where the Prince of Wales would become head of state on his succession, the spokeswoman replied: "
I think you are right in thinking it would require legislation for her not to be Queen
Perhaps these are the words that should be highlighted. The spokeswoman does not think, not "It has been confirmed that she will not be known as Queen Camilla"
  #458  
Old 09-10-2006, 07:58 AM
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Skydragon,

That is just a form of words - she also says "I think" that it would require legislation for her not to be queen, but we all know that is definite. It is equally definite that she will be known as HRH the Princess Consort. "Intended" means there's wiggle room - but my point is Charles has to use that wiggle room to put this right!

Laws are not needed to take a commoner and gazette them as an own-right Prince or Princess of the UK. cf: Philip. Laws are not needed for a person with a higher title to use the lower one all the time cf: the Duchess of Cornwall, Lady Louise Windsor.

No laws are needed for Camilla to be made a Princess of the UK in her own right with the style and title of HRH the Princess Consort, nor for her to use that title when she is queen. Letters patent for the princely dignity will do.

So far, I have produced statements from Buckingham Palace and from Government in support of my argument, and for the argument of yourself, Branch and others that 'legislation will be needed' for her to be known as PC, and that there is 'zero chance' of this happening, absolutely nothing has been produced. Not one source, not one counter-quote, not one reference to the statute book, absolutely nothing whatsoever except repeated assertions.

You also said:

Quote:
I agree with you, if you start to change 'tradition' then where does it all end?
Well, my fear is, with a republic. Frankly. And that is why it is so important that the issue of titles be sorted out. You cannot have situations where there's one rule for Beatrice and another for Louise, nor where Camilla, for the first time in history, breaking almost a thousand years of tradition, is not known as the Princess of Wales. Nor where the King wants to drop the 'Defender of the Faith' title. Once you start messing with it, you have opened up a huge can of worms and it ends with a republic. I am sorry to be gloomy but that is my fear.
  #459  
Old 09-10-2006, 08:00 AM
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One other point is that I do not know if the letters Patent system also applies to Canada. Presumably she would be Queen in Canada as well and styled as such?
  #460  
Old 09-10-2006, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
One other point is that I do not know if the letters Patent system also applies to Canada. Presumably she would be Queen in Canada as well and styled as such?
Living between two countries, its is really interesting to note (from a personal perspective) that in one, you have a royal family consisting of the monarch, her spouse, children, grandchildren and extended relations and in the other you have the same monarch as in the other country, but no royal family.

Quote:
Presumably she would be Queen in Canada as well and styled as such?
Correct.

Its also interesting that the Canadian's shall have a Queen Consort (with 'possible' question of legislation pending) whom is herself the great-great-granddaughter of Sophia MacNab and William Keppel of Ontario, I do believe.

The Queen of course has a Canadian strain somewhere along the line so that would mean that both monarch and his consort would be of Canadian lineage (Camilla's much more prominent of course). Interesting...
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