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  #321  
Old 09-02-2006, 08:42 AM
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Just to clear it up, I agree she will legally be queen just as she is presently, legally, Princess of Wales.

What I am saying is that both those facts are irrelevant.

What matters is what she is known as.

"Duchess of Cornwall pictures part 30" or whatever.

It is no more ludicrous to suppose that the wife of the King will be known as Princess Consort than to suppose that the wife of the Prince of Wales would be known as the Duchess of Cornwall. In the public's eye, there is already something amiss with this marriage. It is already semi-morganatic because of the fact that the DofC does not use the normal title. Something is already rotten in the state of Britain!


It has already been announced by Buck House that she will be known as HRH the Princess Consort, and if everybody calls her that, then in reality she'll be that. Whatever legally she might be will be of the least consequence.

If legislation is required to say she will be known as PC, although still legally Q, it will happen.

It won't seem so odd to have a King and a Princess Consort as the Netherlands are already to do this. Two major Euro monarchies doing it at once.

Quote:
If she is not good enough to be the Queen then Parliament should have advised the Queen not to give her consent to the marriage in my opinion.
She's apparently not good enough to be Princess of Wales! (I know she is legally). She's known by a lesser title. A first in our history and a most unwelcome first. It was a disastrous mistake and should never have happened.

What I am trying to point out is that Charles' attitude towards religion, and the fact of his marriage to a woman he could not marry in a C of E ceremony, has made it extremely probable that there will be legislation disestablishing the monarch as head of the C of E. And the further point is that once you open the can of royal worms, you can't stop there. When this law comes up, people will demand the change of male rights (as a politician and a monarchist I will certainly be arguing for equal-birth primogeniture). It is an ideal time for the latter as Charles, William, and Harry would be the first three in line anyway and no Victoria-Carl Philip style disinheriting would take place. If the monarch is not to be head of the C of E, the Cathoic ban could go, and so forth and so on. While you are relieving Charles of the headship of the C of E, you can easily say 'and the queen will be known as HRH the Princess Consort" and the thing is done.

And much of the blame for 'messing with success' must go to Charles. He is coming up with stupid titles like Lady Louise and Princess Consort and Duchess of Cornwall. He needs to step up to the plate and say his wife will be known as Queen upon his succession.

I am 100% sure Britain would respect his guts and their love if he were to do it.
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  #322  
Old 09-02-2006, 11:35 AM
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I don't think there will be an issue when Charles becomes King. Polls are already showing over 50% of the British public think Camilla should become Queen and Parliament will be very reluctant to pass legislation on this matter.

At the end of the day, there is no logical reason why she shouldn't be Queen and forcing her to assume a lesser rank and title is pretty harsh.
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  #323  
Old 09-02-2006, 12:46 PM
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It was a disastrous mistake and should never have happened.
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  #324  
Old 09-02-2006, 04:21 PM
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I actually had respect for Camilla and Charles who I assumed made the choice of Duchess of Cornwall title. I thought they were in fact acknowledging the memory and title Diana and her sons -The Wales and wished to leave the title with her. The whole debacle between the 3 of them was a monstrosity from all perspectives, so it seemed a nice gesture to me. The Duchess of Cornwall title is not that problematic- Charles and Camilla are both known as the Duke and Duchess of Rothsay when in Scotland.

It would be sensible to be proactive and change some of the legislation to allow for primogeniture and to establish the consort title, as perhaps The Netherlands may do, when Beatrix is no longer Queen.

I thought I read a poll in an article in The Scotsman a couple of months ago which showed that though Camilla is becoming more popular more than 50% do not want her to be queen. Here is the link- found it.
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...m?id=544442006
  #325  
Old 09-02-2006, 04:32 PM
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Even if Charles had married a different woman altogether, it would have been very likely she also would have taken her style as Duchess of Cornwall and Rothesay. Diana was Princess of Wales for 15 years and the mother of a future king, so it would have very difficult for the public to accept anyone becoming the new Princess of Wales when Charles remarried.
  #326  
Old 09-04-2006, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
King Charles III
Queen Camilla
The Duke of Edinburgh
The Prince of Wales
The Prince Henry
Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall decides not to become the queen consort.
She accepts to become the Princess consort after Prince Charles will be crowned as the king. Compares to Princess Lalla Salma Bennani, the king of Morocco. So, The Duchess of Cornwall will become The Princess Camilla.
  #327  
Old 09-04-2006, 01:29 PM
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Tim, this has been done to death. Read back a few pages and you'll see that Camilla can't become Princess Consort without first becoming Queen. So she will be Queen.
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  #328  
Old 09-04-2006, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Tim, this has been done to death. Read back a few pages and you'll see that Camilla can't become Princess Consort without first becoming Queen. So she will be Queen.
The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall married at the Guildhall in Windsor on 9th April 2005 in a civil ceremony. Afterwards, there was a Service of Prayer and Dedication in St George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle, over which the Archbishop of Canterbury presided.
It is intended that The Duchess of Cornwall should use the title HRH The Princess Consort when The Prince of Wales accedes to The Throne.

http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/abou...rnwall_01.html
  #329  
Old 09-04-2006, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Yates
The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall married at the Guildhall in Windsor on 9th April 2005 in a civil ceremony. Afterwards, there was a Service of Prayer and Dedication in St George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle, over which the Archbishop of Canterbury presided.
It is intended that The Duchess of Cornwall should use the title HRH The Princess Consort when The Prince of Wales accedes to The Throne.

http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/abou...rnwall_01.html
The Prince of Wales is the eldest son of The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh. He was born on 14 November, 1948 and christened Charles Philip Arthur George on 15 December that year in the Music Room at Buckingham Palace.
The Prince of Wales married Mrs Camilla Parker Bowles on 9 April 2005 at a civil ceremony at the Guildhall in Windsor, followed by a service of prayer and dedication in St. George's Chapel, Windsor Castle.
After the wedding, Mrs Parker Bowles became known as HRH The Duchess of Cornwall. When The Prince of Wales accedes to the throne, she will be known as HRH The Princess Consort.
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page3974.asp
  #330  
Old 09-04-2006, 01:40 PM
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Yes dear, I know what happened. I was there. It has since been admitted by all concerned that there is no LEGAL way that Camilla can become Princess Consort. When the Queen dies, Charles automatically becomes "King Charles" and Camilla automatically becomes "Queen Camilla". Parliament would then have to pass an act to take that title away from her, something that just won't happen. You can quote all the Clarence House announcements you like - the Princess Consort thing was intended to shut the Diana loons up.
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  #331  
Old 09-04-2006, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Yes dear, I know what happened. I was there. It has since been admitted by all concerned that there is no LEGAL way that Camilla can become Princess Consort. When the Queen dies, Charles automatically becomes "King Charles" and Camilla automatically becomes "Queen Camilla". Parliament would then have to pass an act to take that title away from her, something that just won't happen. You can quote all the Clarence House announcements you like - the Princess Consort thing was intended to shut the Diana loons up.
Yes, okay... You are right... I read the article:

Titles, Styles and Position

The Duchess of Cornwall legally holds the title and technical rank of Princess of Wales as she is the consort and wife of the Prince of Wales, but she does not, by choice, style herself as such, so although the title exists and is held by her it is never used nor referred to.
Clarence House announced at the couple's engagement that she wished to use the style of her future husband's subsidiary title, Duke of Cornwall, rather than Princess of Wales, except in Scotland.
In Scotland, where Prince Charles is usually referred to as the The Prince Charles, Duke of Rothesay, she is referred to as the Duchess of Rothesay.
Queen Elizabeth II has placed her as the fourth highest-ranking female royal in the United Kingdom Order of Precedence in 2005 (after herself, Anne, Princess Royal and Princess Alexandra, The Honourable Lady Ogilvy) rather than second (as would normally befit a consort to the heir) to strengthen the notion of being a royal duchess rather than a princess.
Her degree of acceptance within the Royal Family was shown in the decision to allow her wear the tiara of the late Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.[11]
Camilla's current name, previous names, and styles used of titles acquired upon her marriage into the Royal Family in chronological order are as follows:
  • Miss Camilla Rosemary Shand (until 1973)
  • Mrs. Andrew Parker Bowles (1973-1995)
  • Mrs. Camilla Parker Bowles (1995-2005)
  • Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cornwall (used everywhere but Scotland) (2005 - )
  • Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Rothesay (used only in Scotland) (2005 - )
Camilla's full titles (but not styles) after her marriage are: Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, Princess of Scotland
Clarence House has indicated that when Charles accedes the throne it is intended that she will use the title HRH, The Princess Consort, although, as with the example of the Princess of Wales, technically as the wife of a king, Camilla would be Queen.
However, one year after her wedding, polls still showed opposition to the prospect of a Queen Camilla, with only 38% supporting the idea. Meanwhile, Prince Charles is currently viewed favourably by the public, 52% believing he will be a good King.[12].
  #332  
Old 09-04-2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Yates
When The Prince of Wales accedes to the throne, she will be known as HRH The Princess Consort.
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page3974.asp
Warren, pelase, leave this post here if possible as I come back on topic immediately.

First to your post, Tim: I guess we are all aware here that these informations have been posted to different Royal-owned websites.

What members here have discussed int he thread our admin Warren pointed to is the fact that the Britsih law at the moment does not allow for morganatic marriages and clearly states that the wife of the king is the queen.

Camilla is Charles' wife, so when he becomes king she will be queen. This is a fact neither of the mentioned websites questions. They don't say that "she will be" the princess consort" but they state she "will be known as the princess consort". That's a huge difference!

Thus far Britain has no experience with a queen insisting on being called a princess. Maybe she will insist, maybe she won't. Maybe people will follow, maybe people won't. But fact is fact: the wife of the king is the queen. Full stop. For her to become a mere "princess consort" instead of a "queen consort" would mean to change the law - which means opening a can of worms - something the RF surely won't want to do.

Back on topic: if the Duke outlived the queen, he will still be The Duke of Edinburgh - maybe he even marries a second time... Wonder what Charles will do then.... Award the second wife the title of HRH?

But: I think it's important to check regularily if these sentences about the future name of Camilla are still in place - as IMHO they will be removed the very moment prince Charles and the other members of the RF get alarmed about a frailty in the health of Her Majesty. Because it would be more than mortifying if this sentence is still to be found there when the succession situation arrives... I write this believing that Charles loves Camilla and want her to be his queen as any man wants his wife to share his position in life if he loves her and is proud of her.
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  #333  
Old 09-04-2006, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Yates
When The Prince of Wales accedes to the throne, she will be known as HRH The Princess Consort.
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page3974.asp
Tim - if the internet had already existed in the days of queen Mary, especially in 1910 when Edward VII. died, they could have written on their website that "When The Prince of Wales accedes to the throne, she (in this case the new queen Mary) will be known as "This old hag from Suebia". (For those who don't know it, the "Teck" is a prominent hill right in front and belonging to the Suebian Alb - a series of mountains and hills - in Wuerttemberg, Germany. The Tecks were a minor branch of the Royal House of Wuerttemberg.)

So what? Mary of Teck would still have been the queen!
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  #334  
Old 09-04-2006, 02:26 PM
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While legally she will be Queen Camilla, she'll bow to public pressure and be referred to as "The Princess Consort". I think in some peoples' minds [and correct me if I'm wrong], there's a slight dislike for her for breaking up Charles and Diana's marriage and for her to use the title that was supposed to be Diana's.....some people may not go for that. Now, this is just purely speculation. However, I can think of no other reason but that for why she'd be referred to as something other than the Queen.

I don't think it will stop other foreign dignitaries from saying "Your Majesty" when they greet her, though.
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  #335  
Old 09-04-2006, 02:29 PM
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She won't bow to public pressure because there isn't any. Britain is not living in the past and we won't change over 1000 years of tradition for one woman. Camilla WILL be Queen, she will be "Her Majesty" and I shall take great pride in making sure the whole world knows it.
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  #336  
Old 09-04-2006, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
She won't bow to public pressure because there isn't any. Britain is not living in the past and we won't change over 1000 years of tradition for one woman. Camilla WILL be Queen, she will be "Her Majesty" and I shall take great pride in making sure the whole world knows it.
Around the time of her and Charles' marriage, I had heard from several different people that when he becomes King, she'll go by the title The Princess Consort because of lingering resentment over her involvement in Charles and Diana's divorce.

I never said those people were right, I never said that I was right. I said it was speculation and it could be wrong.

I'm not British, so I'm only going by what I've been told from other people who are. They very well might be full of crap.
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  #337  
Old 09-04-2006, 03:06 PM
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I'm not putting you down. You said in your original post, "She WILL bow to public pressure" as if it was a sure fire fact. And it isn't. And she won't. Simple.
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  #338  
Old 09-04-2006, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I'm not putting you down. You said in your original post, "She WILL bow to public pressure" as if it was a sure fire fact. And it isn't. And she won't. Simple.

And that was my own opinion based on what I had been told by other people I knew [who are Brits] around the time of their marriage.

As I stated in my previous post, those people could be utterly full of it.
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  #339  
Old 09-04-2006, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine
Around the time of her and Charles' marriage, I had heard from several different people that when he becomes King, she'll go by the title The Princess Consort because of lingering resentment over her involvement in Charles and Diana's divorce.

I never said those people were right, I never said that I was right. I said it was speculation and it could be wrong.

Do you take great delight in putting other people and their opinions down? I'm not British, so I'm only going by what I've been told from other people who are.
Not to speak on BeatrixFan's behalf (because he does it so well himself )

I think some of the frustration is due to the fact that this subject and different resolutions and opinions have been discussed ad nauseaum.

While we welcome new members to the Forum and we are excited to get new input...sometimes...its best to read some of the previous pages of a thread before making a comment. Your comment, while appreciated as already been discussed before.
  #340  
Old 09-04-2006, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Not to speak on BeatrixFan's behalf (because he does it so well himself )

I think some of the frustration is due to the fact that this subject and different resolutions and opinions have been discussed ad nauseaum.

While we welcome new members to the Forum and we are excited to get new input...sometimes...its best to read some of the previous pages of a thread before making a comment. Your comment, while appreciated as already been discussed before.

I wasn't aware that I had to read through tons of pages first before I was allowed to post my opinion.

My apologies for inconveniencing you.
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