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  #201  
Old 08-14-2006, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu An
Okay, here's my opinion/speech on this and I hope I don't get too flamed:


Ladies and Gentlemen of the UK and the rest of the world: Diana is dead. Yes, you heard me correctly, Diana is dead. She died in a car crash in Paris with her Arab lover Dodi Fayed. She was divorced from His Royal Highness Prince Charles of Wales. She was the one who wanted a divorce in the first place. As we all know the divorce was quite messy. She was stripped of her royal title "HRH" since she was not born a royal in her own right and humiliated the royals immensely during her divorce campaign.

Since she's been dead almost ten years now I think it is best to move on. The new wife of Charles is Camilla, who in my eyes is a perfect Princess of Wales. Yes, I called her that. I think moving on is critical since that is how society moves forward. I don't believe it would be humane and modern if the politicians were to slap Camilla in the face and introduce legislation making sure that Camilla is not Queen Consort. Contrary to what rabid Diana fans think, Diana was not Charles' wife at the end of her life and that was entirely up to her. Diana pursued the divorce (yes, there was adultery but Charles still wanted a marriage, however much a sham so his kids wouldn't grow up in a broken home and for other reasons I will not mention) and got what she wanted. The rest we know what happened.

Now, forward quite a few years later (yes, moving forward is what healthy and modern societies do) Camilla and Charles are finally married. They are no longer a covert couple forced to hide their love for one another is because Camilla is *gasp*, old. This is also a facet of a modern monarch is that he marries an old woman because they love one another. To me this is a thoroughly modern couple and the fact that Charles has made an honest woman out of his former mistress is another good thing he has done. Charles could have pursued another younger female with aristocratic connections but he didn't. He married for love and this is what is expected of our modern monarchs.

Contrary to what rabid Diana fans think, the title Princess of Wales was not hers by right, or hers alone. It belongs to the wife of the Prince of Wales, and that wife now is Camilla. Diana threw it away when she pursued a divorce from Charles. In conclusion, Diana may be an icon, but Camilla is a true princess.
THE END
I sign after every and each word. A very good speech indeed and yoou said everything I was longing to say but couldn't find the words.
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  #202  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
This may help. From the Prince of Wales Website...

The Duchy estate was created in 1337 by Edward III for his son and heir, Prince Edward, and its primary function was to provide him and future Princes of Wales with an income from its assets. A charter rules that each future Duke of Cornwall would be the eldest surviving son of the Monarch and the heir to the throne.
Thanks Warren. But your link makes me ask one question that I could not find the answer for in the Prince Charles website. Is the title Duke of Cornwall passed only to the first born male child that will be King one day or is it also passed onto women? Like, was Queen Elizabeth II ever Duke/Duchess of Cornwall? Somewhere in the news (maybe The Royalist news site?) I read that Queen Elizabeth does have a title as a male (don't ask me where I read that, I can't remember at this moment) and she went to some type of ceremonial event using the title style as if she was a male. Does the same applies to the Duke of Cornwall title?
Anyone knows?
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  #203  
Old 08-15-2006, 12:13 AM
cde cde is offline
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Very nice speech Tzu An.

Now if we could just get the Dianafanatics to comprehend and accept it. :)
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  #204  
Old 08-15-2006, 12:33 AM
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Luckily Camilla has compassion and integrity. She has chosen not to use the title. Diana will forever be the mother of the second in line to the throne and will be associated with the title Princess of Wales until William inherits the title and is married. Camilla understands and has shown that she is respectful of that. She is a lady of class and integrity. Perhaps take note.
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  #205  
Old 08-15-2006, 12:47 AM
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Could we please dispense with the little digs at people who hold different views? Much more of this, and the moderators are going to start editing or deleting or even close the thread if it's just going to descend into sniping.

Elspeth

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  #206  
Old 08-15-2006, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
Thanks Warren. But your link makes me ask one question that I could not find the answer for in the Prince Charles website. Is the title Duke of Cornwall passed only to the first born male child that will be King one day or is it also passed onto women? Like, was Queen Elizabeth II ever Duke/Duchess of Cornwall? Somewhere in the news...I read that Queen Elizabeth does have a title as a male.
I think The Queen's titles (broadly and not specific) were, in order: Princess Elizabeth of York (birth to 1936, accession of her father), The Princess Elizabeth (to 1947, marriage), Duchess of Edinburgh (to 1952, accession), Queen and Duke of Lancaster (as Sovereign).
Queen Elizabeth has never been "Duke or Duchess of Cornwall" because she was an Heir(ess) Presumptive. The Charter refers to the eldest surviving son and heir of the Monarch.

Lancaster is the Monarch's equivalent of the Duchy of Cornwall, designed to provide a private income. The title "Duke of Normandy" may be used by French romanticists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
... it was the author's confusion: Charlotte of Wales, not the Princess of Wales.
to get seriously pedantic title wise (but we love that at TRF :) right?) it would have been HRH Princess Charlotte of Wales, no "the" in front. "The" is reserved for children of a reigning or deceased monarch, so HRH The Princess Margaret, The Prince Andrew (before he was made Duke of York). Prince/ss X of Y has no "the" even if the Y is Wales.
Quite correct Frothy, what some call pedantry we see as the fine detail, which is what makes it all the more interesting. Yes, my error: I gave a "The" to the ill-fated Charlotte when she was not entitled to it. Does anyone have any idea when this usage became common or standard?
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  #207  
Old 08-15-2006, 04:20 AM
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Smile RE: finishing schools and Duchess of Cornwall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
My old school is still going although some of it's remit has altered to include business and internet studies! Another is Surval Mont Fleuri.

Presenting young women to the Queen and society as immaculately turned out, well mannered debutantes, has died out. Very few schools exist anymore in the UK, although a handful still operate in Switzerland and it is just a handful, these are generally known because of experience or personal recommendation I think.
Actually I was recommended to one such Swiss school which is not publicized, but the person who wanted to recommend me flaked out at the last minute because I did not lose 10kg (and believe me I am already very thin)! --mind you she didn't attend this school but knows of it. It was the idea of my parents and she needed a job in our region and wanted to get in their good graces by offering a referral for me. But then she flaked out when she used connection through another influential person. You know how people can be. My parents were undeterred by her behavior because their rank here is above hers, and the person she ended up going to happens to be a very very close family friend of ours.

This experience of 'debutantes' has not died out in my part of the world. It is still expected but only known by those in the loop....its just called something different.

Getting back to the topic. Perhaps when the time does come for the coronation the world will be such a different place socially that there may not me much public opposition to 'Queen Camila'. How it fits in with the English law, is like reading Chinese to me because its not my subject. But I had read that even consitutionally Anglicans can not remarry in the church once divorced..is this true? I know there was big debate about the English laws, but the Archbishop of Cantebury approved in the end. For me it is nothing personal, and I think that people of rank and priviledge also have a right to be happy in their personal lives just like anybody else does...and the fact that they found this happiness in their lifetime is in itself a blessing for them because many people never find it, or if they do they lose it. It does not ditract from his duties as Prince of Wales, it rather enhances them. Its not really a role you can do alone.

I see the marriage as beneficial for both at this stage, even though I was also a Diana fan, personally I think she made too many public disclosures at the end. If you notice, Duchess of Cornwall has never given not 1 interview about her private life with the Prince of Wales and I so admire that. In my country (kuwait) we say: don't just win the battle, win the war! I admire Camilla's personal approach to things more than Diana. I think she adds to her husband also, and many on the thread only see it as one sided. Why not discuss how he also benefits from having her as his wife (even though I'm sure the Duchess of Cornwall is too well-bred and humble to raise the subject about herself)? So good for them.
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  #208  
Old 08-17-2006, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
I think The Queen's titles (broadly and not specific) were, in order: Princess Elizabeth of York (birth to 1936, accession of her father), The Princess Elizabeth (to 1947, marriage), Duchess of Edinburgh (to 1952, accession), Queen and Duke of Lancaster (as Sovereign).
Queen Elizabeth has never been "Duke or Duchess of Cornwall" because she was an Heir(ess) Presumptive. The Charter refers to the eldest surviving son and heir of the Monarch.

Lancaster is the Monarch's equivalent of the Duchy of Cornwall, designed to provide a private income. The title "Duke of Normandy" may be used by French romanticists.

Quite correct Frothy, what some call pedantry we see as the fine detail, which is what makes it all the more interesting. Yes, my error: I gave a "The" to the ill-fated Charlotte when she was not entitled to it. Does anyone have any idea when this usage became common or standard?
After her Wedding she was The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh
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  #209  
Old 08-17-2006, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
Thanks Warren. But your link makes me ask one question that I could not find the answer for in the Prince Charles website. Is the title Duke of Cornwall passed only to the first born male child that will be King one day or is it also passed onto women? Like, was Queen Elizabeth II ever Duke/Duchess of Cornwall? Somewhere in the news (maybe The Royalist news site?) I read that Queen Elizabeth does have a title as a male (don't ask me where I read that, I can't remember at this moment) and she went to some type of ceremonial event using the title style as if she was a male. Does the same applies to the Duke of Cornwall title?
Anyone knows?
It is for the oldest son of the monarch. For example the future George III. was not Duke of Cornwall after the death of his father and before his accession to to the Throne as he was not the eldest son of the monarch.
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  #210  
Old 08-17-2006, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan
After her Wedding she was The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh
After HM's wedding,HM was known as HRH Princess Elizabeth,The Duchess of Edinburgh not The Princess Elizabeth,Duchess of Edinburgh.
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  #211  
Old 08-17-2006, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivishnu
After HM's wedding,HM was known as HRH Princess Elizabeth,The Duchess of Edinburgh not The Princess Elizabeth,Duchess of Edinburgh.
No, check the official British Royals website www.royal.gov.uk

You will see that Prince Philip's official title is

'The Prince Philip,Duke of Edinburgh' therefore before she ascended Elizabeth was

The Princess Elizabeth,Duchess of Edinburgh
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  #212  
Old 08-17-2006, 08:20 AM
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As a child of the sovereign, The Queen was always The Princess Elizabeth and added Duchess of Edinburgh after her marriage to Prince Philip.

Camilla is the wife of the Prince of Wales and shares all of his titles and styles. She has chosen to be styled Duchess of Cornwall instead out of sensitivities to the memory of Princess Diana.

Once Charles becomes King, she is automatically Queen unless Parliament is willing to pass legislation allowing her to be Princess Consort instead. The likelihood of that happening is next to zero.

She will be Queen Camilla.
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  #213  
Old 08-17-2006, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Once Charles becomes King, she is automatically Queen unless Parliament is willing to pass legislation allowing her to be Princess Consort instead. The likelihood of that happening is next to zero.

She will be Queen Camilla.
Hurrah!!! :w00t2:
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  #214  
Old 08-17-2006, 01:33 PM
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I actually don't see Prince Charles and Camilla as a monarch, I don't see that charisma that usually monarchs have, but I hope when Charles and Camilla became the King and Queen, they do a great job as his mother have donne it, for the well of the monarchy itself, the country and the family.
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  #215  
Old 08-17-2006, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdarlene
I actually don't see Prince Charles and Camilla as a monarch, I don't see that charisma that usually monarchs have
I believe they said the same about George VI and Queen Elizabeth II at first. Poor George was described as 'uninspiring'.
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  #216  
Old 08-17-2006, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1
No, check the official British Royals website www.royal.gov.uk

You will see that Prince Philip's official title is

'The Prince Philip,Duke of Edinburgh' therefore before she ascended Elizabeth was

The Princess Elizabeth,Duchess of Edinburgh
I think that you might find that Queen Elizabeth awarded her husband the 'The' in 1956 after she married him of course, and when she'd been Queen for a few years.

It raised his prestige and standing, considerably, as, had she made him His Royal Highness Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, she would have been merely returning him the rank he possessed at birth.

Prior to this his title had been, HRH Phillip,Duke of Edinburgh. Before this 'The' was always reserved for the children of the monarch, therefore, Elizabeth would have been 'The' Princess Elizabeth since her father's coming to the throne.

Allegedly, the Queen did this to stifle the Prince's critics and as an indication of her loyal support for him.



Polly
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  #217  
Old 08-17-2006, 07:14 PM
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This was posted at the GREMB and scanned from a book.



As you see, it's dated 1948 and the Queen's title is written as;

The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh
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  #218  
Old 08-17-2006, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
I believe they said the same about George VI and Queen Elizabeth II at first. Poor George was described as 'uninspiring'.
George VI and Elizabeth II was not trained / brought up to become monarchs.They became Heads of State co-incidently on the abdication of Edward VIII.George VI was a timid and shy person.His Majesty was afraid and shy to speak in public but was trained by the late Queen Mother.The Queen Mother even writes His Majesty's speeches.So the late Queen Elizabeth,The Queen Mother was His Majesty's "rock" and strength behind his success in reigning Britain in times of peace and wars.Same goes to Elizabeth II,The Queen consults The Queen Mother on mostly all matters to get her opinion, comment, feedback and idea as The Queen Mother was the most senior and experienced person in the royal family at that time.Here is a famous and powerful quote from the late Queen Mother in reply to Britons' request for Princessess Elizabeth and Margaret to be sent overseas for TRH's safety when Britian was in war with the Germans > "The children won't go without me. I won't leave the King. And the King will never leave".The Queen Mother can be considered George VI's and Elizabeth II's senior,closest and trusted aides in all aspect in terms of reigning Britain effectively,efficiently and successfully.
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  #219  
Old 08-17-2006, 11:14 PM
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The Queen's titles is as below taken from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_II) :
  • 1926-1936: Her Royal Highness Princess Elizabeth of York
  • 1936-1947: Her Royal Highness The Princess Elizabeth
  • 1947-1952: Her Royal Highness The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh
  • 1952-: Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom
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  #220  
Old 08-17-2006, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Once Charles becomes King, she is automatically Queen unless Parliament is willing to pass legislation allowing her to be Princess Consort instead. The likelihood of that happening is next to zero. She will be Queen Camilla.
If The Queen could create and grant HRH Prince Philip the style and dignity of a Prince of the United Kingdom in February 1957 without seeking Parliament's approval,then why should Prince Charles get Parliament's blessing to style Camilla as The Princess Consort?
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