Investiture as Prince of Wales: July 1, 1969

[Iluvbertie]

As most Princes of Wales haven't actually had this sort of investiture the answer is no.
Edward VIII was only about 17 when invested and Charles nearly 21.

Previously they didn't have ceremonies like this at all but the holder was presented to the House of Lords when they reached about 21. George V was already a member of that house when he became Duke of Cornwall and later Prince of Wales so no more ceremony attached at all. Edward VII turned 21 the year after his father's death so no ceremony at other than taking his seat in the House of Lords. George IV also had no ceremony other than being presented to the House of Lords as Duke of Cornwall.

It was more a 20th C thing and therefore only two actual investitures. It isn't necessary as the LPs are all that are needed (and Charles' were issued in 1958 - 11 years before his investiture).

 

[Renata4711]

Yes, it was watched the world over, and I watched it on TV, but the majority of Welsh people were never keen on the whole thing.

Luckily, Wales now has a devolved Government.

 

[Dianas Ghost]

Thank you for the adorable pix! Charles was as cute as the Beatles!

 

[Warren]

Part 3 of the 4-part 1994 documentary series "The Windsors: A Royal Family" contains a relatively lengthy section on the Investiture of the Prince of Wales. The colour film used at the time has held up well.

It begins at around the 47 minute mark.

The Windsors: A Royal Family (1994)
​

 

[Loyalist]

That day was one of his finest moments. Ever

 

[Dman]

The Prince of Wales’s investiture chair returns home after long journey-
The Prince of Wales’s investiture chair returns home after long journey | Royal Central

 

[RoyalDaisy]

The Prince of Wales’s investiture chair returns home after long journey-
The Prince of Wales’s investiture chair returns home after long journey | Royal Central

Interesting. Doesanyone know where the "Throne" used by HMQ is? Is it still at Caernarfon?

You can see the back of it in this picture. Made of Welsh stone I think

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60464000/jpg/_60464815_queen_investiture_caernarfon_1969.jpg

 

[CyrilVladisla]

For Prince Charles' investure as Prince of Wales, Lord Snowdon had proposed that his nephew's new crown be a simple gold circlet.
However Prince Charles wore a coronet with a purple velvet cap.
​

from yahoo video and the orginal source is BBC

BBC News - Yahoo! Video

This did not work.
Here is an Investiture scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izbupaGWoNA

 

[Jacknch]

For Prince Charles' investure as Prince of Wales, Lord Snowdon had proposed that his nephew's new crown be a simple gold circlet.
However Prince Charles wore a coronet with a purple velvet cap.
​

See attached link for information about the design of the Prince of Wales' coronet.

It is interesting to note firstly that a new coronet had to be made because the Duke of Windsor removed the PoW coronet he used illegally when he went into exile and it was only returned after his death. Secondly, the orb on top of the coronet is made from a ping-pong ball covered in gold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronet_of_Charles,_Prince_of_Wales

 

[Dman]

I just watched the entire ceremony yesterday and I was so impressed by the whole grandeur of the Investiture. Charles was so young, but looked like he was going to be crowned King. The people of Wales appeared to be so happy and welcomed their new Prince of Wales with open arms.

 

[Curryong]

Charles was young. I can remember various bits about it, those around me watching on TV oohing and cooing when Charles appeared, that Prince Philip remarked that the Queen's hat looked 'most becoming', worries that some Welsh nationalists might demonstrate outside the location (that didn't happen) and Lord Snowden getting well-deserved kudos for designing and coordinating so many of the things that made the ceremony a great success.

 

[Dman]

Charles was young. I can remember various bits about it, those around me watching on TV oohing and cooing when Charles appeared, that Prince Philip remarked that the Queen's hat looked 'most becoming', worries that some Welsh nationalists might demonstrate outside the location (that didn't happen) and Lord Snowden getting well-deserved kudos for designing and coordinating so many of the things that made the ceremony a great success.

Yeah, everything was a great success. I keep imagining Charles investing William in the not too distant future.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The United Kingdom back then was a different country. This was a totally staged ceremony (that the Earl of Snowdon had to dress it all up says enough about the "historicity" of the event, pardon, the ceremony). I doubt if such a ceremony, in this form, will ever be repeated.

 

[Denville]

Agree. it was a moderate success at the time but it was very "fake" - apart from the sincerity of Charles' taking on his adult role as his mother's heir and supporter.
and I don't believe it was all that popular in wales, apart from devout royalists (of course there were problaby more devout middle class royalists back then than there are now.
I'm sure that if William were POW, chalres would not want such a ceremony for him and Will certainly wouldn't want it.. and I think that the Welsh would be far more cool or even hostile to the idea.

 

[Curryong]

I don't think there will be a ceremony. Given that William is much more likely to be nearing his forties when Charles reaches the throne it wouldn't be the same. There will be an announcement and that will be it.

I can remember it being regarded as a great success. I was in my home town in East Anglia then, a very royalist part of GB. Thinking back I remember Charles touring a few places in Wales afterwards and male choirs singing 'God bless the Prince of Wales' when he arrived and left. Huge numbers of people cheering in the streets.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Yeah, everything was a great success. I keep imagining Charles investing William in the not too distant future.

I hope it is not "in the not too distant future." Maybe 10 years or so.

 

[Kellin]

I don't think there will be a ceremony. Given that William is much more likely to be nearing his forties when Charles reaches the throne it wouldn't be the same. There will be an announcement and that will be it.

Yeah, right! Why not to replace the coronation with an announcement too? Why even bother with these stupid medieval ceremonies, right?

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Yeah, right! Why not to replace replace the coronation with an announcement too? Why even bother with these stupid medieval ceremonies, right?

The investiture ceremony in 1969 was not a medieval ceremony. It was something designed for that specific event. The only other investiture of a Prince of Wales in modern times was in 1911.

 

[Denville]

The investiture ceremony in 1969 was not a medieval ceremony. It was something designed for that specific event. The only other investiture of a Prince of Wales in modern times was in 1911.

I think that with botht of these investitures they were considered rather "fakey", designed to try and look traditional. If we wanted to have something like the alleged Original "announcement as Prince of Wales" we'd have to have poor William dangled out the window by his father from some Welsh castle!?

 

[wyevale]

The 'Nats' will almost certainly 'make trouble' [altho' they only polled 7% of the Welsh vote in the last election], and even the Labour Party [currently governing Wales as the biggest party in its 'devolved' assembly] might be less than keen with any kind of investiture ceremony [along the lines of the last two].
Better to have the King make an announcement, and the new Prince sign the relevant oaths in London, followed by a tour of Wales, and an emollient speech to the Assembly in Cardiff ?

 

[Gawin]

I think that with botht of these investitures they were considered rather "fakey", designed to try and look traditional. If we wanted to have something like the alleged Original "announcement as Prince of Wales" we'd have to have poor William dangled out the window by his father from some Welsh castle!?

Thanks for the laugh!

 

[AdmirerUS]

JMO, but the formal investiture ceremony for Charles had a purpose. The Queen had already ruled capably for over 15 years and there was reason to formally celebrate the elevation of Charles to his adult, royal role. Without getting into a side discussion of Phillip, it clearly showed Charles as number 2 to his Mother while acknowledging his active role with Wales. He was young and cool, in his way, and the family could earn some PR boost from the ceremony.

It will be very different when the Queen dies. I think Charles will want the focus on his coronation; that a big Wales investiture will dilute that focus.

Additionally, the nation will be in mourning. They will be into the Coronation, but might just see a big show for William as excessive. I also wonder how much Wales would really want a big splash at that time. As William will be in his mid to late 30s, no coming of age celebration would be needed.

Don't get me wrong, I think William has done a great job preparing himself and the Welsh people for his future leadership. But I think it will be a smallish ceremony and more of a welcoming back/glad to be back kind of thing.

And we are off topic. I'm old enough to remember the Investiture. I remember thinking it was quite foolish looking. It did nothing for me as an American, to help me see Charles in a more serious light. And as usual, I know my opinion is very outsiderish and can be completely discounted.

Too be completely honest, I'm not sure how much the Queen's hat had to do with how silly it all appeared to me. For me that hat was very much something I would see on a TV show about space travel or in a commercial for an airline. In my memory it came across as very costumed, as opposed to something very regal and dignified. The pearls were great, though.

I've also always thought Charles' interview about how great the investiture was, flopped. He opens by saying something along the lines of "cynics are the ones who don't get this." It's the kind of slap that Harry has been accused of making. You don't win over the cynics this way.

Finally, looking back at the investiture, at the time 71% of the Welsh supported an independent Parliament. But 74% thought the ceremony a very good thing. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/prince-charless-investiture-45-years-7353865 .

 

[Iluvbertie]

The two investitures in the 20th century were done to acknowledge the 'coming of age' of the new PoW.

William is way past that event.

There were no such investitures in earlier centuries ... probably because there really was no need (even though the two previous Princes of Wales - George IV and Edward VII had been infants when their monarchs had created them Prince of Wales).

As William will be old enough to swear allegiance at Charles' coronation there is no need for him to be seen, in a separate ceremony, of doing that (yes I know Edward VIII swore allegiance at his father's coronation before his investiture).

IF the Welsh Assembly want the event - do they even want a new Prince of Wales? - then it should happen but not just to have such an event. Without the vast majority of the Welsh people supporting the event it shouldn't happen IMHO.

 

[Dman]

The Cambridge family is very popular with the people. The Welsh people will very likely welcome their new Prince & Princess of Wales in a ceremony a year or so after the Coronation.

 

[Osipi]

I, also, don't think there will be an Investiture Ceremony for William. One reason being the one already given and that William is not "coming of age" into the role of Prince of Wales and another reason being that with thinking logically, William is not going to have a lifetime as the Prince of Wales either such as Charles did. I actually see Charles' reign as a transitional reign between Elizabeth II and William V.

Charles' ceremony was kind of a "made for TV" ceremony staged by the Earl of Snowden, Anthony Armstrong-Jones. It also did not go completely smooth either.

When the time comes, I think William will quietly slip into his role of The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge and also quietly created The Prince of Wales by his father. The main focus should and will be on Charles' coronation.

 

[Denville]

The Cambridge family is very popular with the people. The Welsh people will very likely welcome their new Prince & Princess of Wales in a ceremony a year or so after the Coronation.

I doubt it... there will probably be a small low key ceremony or none at all...

 

[Princess Larisa]

I doubt it... there will probably be a small low key ceremony or none at all...

I agree, I expect the ceremony will be minimal, followed by an extensive tour of Wales by the new Prince and Princess of Wales and possibly their children.

 

[JoanHarry]

See attached link for information about the design of the Prince of Wales' coronet.

It is interesting to note firstly that a new coronet had to be made because the Duke of Windsor removed the PoW coronet he used illegally when he went into exile and it was only returned after his death. Secondly, the orb on top of the coronet is made from a ping-pong ball covered in gold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronet_of_Charles,_Prince_of_Wales

This is a fascinating Wikipedia entry. It makes me picture the Duke of Windsor wearing the closest thing he would have to feeling like a King, his purloined Prince of Wales coronet, while in exile in France. I wonder if he wore it while watching Charles’ investiture, cackling at the newly created (and, I think, very odd) “modern” coronet that had to be created out of resin and a ping pong ball, due to his childish theft. What a story!

 

[HRHFitz]

I think it would probably be best to have a small imitate ceremony for Prince William's Investiture as The Prince of Wales. Something a little larger than their Christenings, no need to televise (although I would love that) just a simple ceremony and some pictures for the public.

Since William won't be POW for a very long time it would make sense to cut down on the grandeur of an investiture for it and save it for his eventual Coronation.

After HM passes we will have her funeral, then Charles' Coronation, then an investiture of William as POW. Then unfortunately we will likely be doing it all again in several years after Charles passes. Thats a lot of events (not to mention any weddings for George, Charlotte or Louis that might pop up,) making another large investiture for William doesn't make sense.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The idea of an investiture of the PoW was a 20th century creation. It wasn't done in earlier times and really isn't necessary.

As I expect William to be PoW before Charles' coronation I doubt that they will even bother as the main reason was to allow Charles to swear allegiance to the monarch - William will have done that at the Coronation - whether as PoW or as Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge.

Edward VIII swore allegiance twice I believe - at the coronation and then again at the investiture but that was when Britain was the world's leading power.

Don't forget that it isn't a given that William will even be created Prince of Wales. I suspect that Charles will sound out the Welsh Assembly about this issue and let them decide rather than act unilaterally. Many Welsh people (not necessarily a majority) don't like having and English Prince as Prince of Wales and find it offensive. Others, of course, don't care.

How long Charles will be King is also not a given - if he lives as long as his mother he will have a reign of 22 years given that is the difference between them in ages - hardly a 'short reign'.