Did Charles have a relationship with Tiggy?

[Jo of Palatine]

I bet Diana was not the first to gossip about that, so Tiggy probably was well aware of the allegations. But to have the princes' mother say something like that in public was really devastating, because normally it would have meant that Tiggy was suddenly going to be ostracised by all and sundry. It was her personal luck that she had a network of reliable friends and that the Prince of Wales backed her, otherwise such a remark by HRH The Princess of Wales would have ended her social life. Diana knew that and aimed at that but luckily the girl got her chance to overcome it. But I believe as some biographers have put it that this was the final straw for all those who thought that Diana was unreliable and a "loose cannon", so better to rid her of her possibilities to wreck havoc.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Velasco

What I don't get is, why did Tiggy burst into tears when Diana said, "Sorry to hear about the baby." If she really didn't have an abortion, then surely she would be taken aback and just be like, what are you talking about?

The baby may or may not have been Charles' but the fact that she burst out into tears in front of a whole room of people at those words is strong evidence that she had, in fact, been pregnant, and somehow lost the baby either naturally or artifically (hence her sadness over it).

Can you imagine the shock and embarrassment Dianas unfounded remark caused. Tiggy could hardly slap Diana across the face and say 'you absolute little bitch, how dare you even suggest such a thing'? Very few people were able to take direct action against Diana and even though everyone probably knew that was the case, many like you thought 'where there's smoke there's fire'.

The result, exactly what Diana wanted, a young womans reputation brought into question and that in the days when reputation meant a lot!

[tinkerbell1948]

I also don't believe they had an affair. As some-one said a hopeful photographer probably took hundreds of photos with a long range lens from different angles then sifted through for the most "compromising" ones

Diana had been dead 2 years and would anyone have even entertained the idea if Diana hadn't hinted at anything?

[TheTruth]

Originally Posted by tinkerbell1948

I also don't believe they had an affair. As some-one said a hopeful photographer probably took hundreds of photos with a long range lens from different angles then sifted through for the most "compromising" ones

Diana had been dead 2 years and would anyone have even entertained the idea if Diana hadn't hinted at anything?

Well like Diana, Charles was constantly spied on and unfortunately for him he didn't have this influence she had on the press and that could become a real problem.

[Lady-in-waiting25]

Originally Posted by love_cc

I don't think Prince Charles had a love affair with Tiggy. Even she is a family friend, she was still under the employment as his boys' nanny. I don't think he would ever step aside this line to have an affair with his female staff.

I family friend... yes. Prince Charles doesn't seem the type to have an affair with a nanny. Even if she is a friend.

[ToytownZara]

Originally Posted by love_cc

I don't think Prince Charles had a love affair with Tiggy. Even she is a family friend, she was still under the employment as his boys' nanny. I don't think he would ever step aside this line to have an affair with his female staff.

Also I believe what Prince Charles told the Scotland Yard for Diana's inquiry. Tiggy is a family friend not a lover. He had and would never had any intention to marry her.

I think Prince Charles always attracts sympathic women to take care of him and makes him happy. Tiggy belongs this catelogue as well. They are probably once very close but more likely to be family type relationships not lover relationships.

I would also imagine that, since she was caring for the boys, she also saw a different side of Charles and possibly felt protective of him as a sister to a brother. If I felt like some woman was scrambling my older brothers' brains I'd step up for them as well. I myself have a male friend whom I became very close to several years ago (I used to help him with his adorable little girl) - his ex was some sort of a mentally unbalanced ODDITY, to say the least. He was essentially an older brother to me, but that didn't stop the rumours for us, either...and really, there was nothing at all between us other than someone he could cry in front of and not feel like an idiot, you know? People tend to judge that which they do not understand - or at least, they seem to.

Tiggy and Prince Charles no more had an affair than Prince Charles and I have had - and I hope that poor woman manages to keep her sanity in the midst of all this. I can even see where nearly any woman, disraught and angered over the breakup of her marriage, could potentially misconstrue what she was seeing - but that comment by Diana, which I totally believe, was something you'd do as a schoolgirl and was completely inappropriate for a grown woman in her thirties. Inexcusable.

Hang in there, Tig - this too, shall pass.

[Elspeth]

You'd think, from reading the thread, that the poll would be almost unanimous in saying that there was no affair, but it looks as though it's about two-thirds (no affair) to one-third (affair). Perhaps some of the people who think Charles and Tiggy had an affair could chime in with their reasons.

[Roslyn]

I don't think they did, either before or after the divorce. Apart from the fact that it has never occurred to me that they might have had a relationship, I don't think Charles would have had a relationship with a member of staff, Camilla was on the scene and after everything they'd been through I don't think Charles would have jeopardised that relationship for a fling with Tiggy even if he fancied her, the photos aren't conclusive, and I am not aware of any credible evidence that they did.

[tinkerbell1948]

I agree ............Camilla was a constant in his life for over 30 years. I don't think by then he would have even considered anyone else . I think Diana dying prevented he and Camilla from going "public" with their relationship sooner than they did even if people knew it was happening it was "kept under wraps"

Of course this is just my "gut instinct" without any facts to back it up but why would he even consider a "fling" or "affair" with Tiggy given the tumultuous previous years?

[cde]

Personally I am on the fence for the following reasons- Camilla was known to be jealous of Tiggy. I think Camilla knows Charles pretty well and I don't think she would have been jealous without some good reason. Besides, I seriously doubt Charles having a fling with Tiggy would have jeopardized his relationship with Camilla. Camilla was used to Charles not being faithful before she and Charles married. Although IMO she doesn't any longer.

[COUNTESS]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

You'd think, from reading the thread, that the poll would be almost unanimous in saying that there was no affair, but it looks as though it's about two-thirds (no affair) to one-third (affair). Perhaps some of the people who think Charles and Tiggy had an affair could chime in with their reasons.

First of all, if you had a preconcieved conclusion, why ask the question? And, although, many have stated their opinions, there is absolutely no concrete evidence that they didn't. Charles knew how to do things discreetly, if he wanted to. He wasn't a fool. There, of course, is no concrete evidence that they did, either. As I said before, all supposition. No one can prove anything either way.

[georgiea]

I read in one of my Princess Diana biographies that Prince Charles falls in and out of love very easily. Diana's sister, Sarah, told the press that Charles can love someone very easily. He strikes me as being fickled about woman. I just wonder when the palace gave him an ultimatium about Camilla, during his separation, that he tried dating Tiggy. She is young, pretty, blonde, aristocratic background, loved and took care of his children and most important loved the outdoors and hunting.

[georgiea]

Originally Posted by georgiea

I read in one of my Princess Diana biographies that Prince Charles falls in and out of love very easily. Diana's sister, Sarah, told the press that Charles can love someone very easily. He strikes me as being fickled about woman. I just wonder when the palace gave him an ultimatium about Camilla, during his separation, that he tried dating Tiggy. She is young, pretty, blonde, aristocratic background, loved and took care of his children and most important loved the outdoors and hunting.

For those of you who are interested in my opionion on this matter, read my above thoughts about why I feel there was a relationship of Prince Charles and Tiggy.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by georgiea

For those of you who are interested in my opionion on this matter, read my above thoughts about why I feel there was a relationship of Prince Charles and Tiggy.

That is a problem if you are basing your opinion on what you have read in a Diana biography. I think it unfair to say that he fell in love easily and unlikely to have been true. Charles may have been attracted to a variety of women within his social class and dated many of them. He was though, one of those infuriating chaps who thought that, just because things didn't work out romantically, there was no reason not to be friends and because he was so charming, most of his past conquests couldn't see any reason not to be either. You say 'when the palace gave him an ultimatum about Camilla, he tried etc', do you have any evidence to support that? Is it likely that Charles would date someone on orders from the palace, let alone someone younger than Diana?
----------------
Leaving aside any preconceived idea based on Diana and Charles, anyone who thinks Alex and Charles had an affair, is presuming that Alex, his childrens close companion, would have betrayed her charges and her boyfriend (now husband) in such a way.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

First of all, if you had a preconcieved conclusion, why ask the question? And, although, many have stated their opinions, there is absolutely no concrete evidence that they didn't. Charles knew how to do things discreetly, if he wanted to. He wasn't a fool. There, of course, is no concrete evidence that they did, either. As I said before, all supposition. No one can prove anything either way.

I don't think Elspeth had a preconceived conclusion and besides if she had Elspeth was in New Orleans and her mind far away from here when I created the thread based on some pictures that zhontella provided.

Enough people thought the pictures were interesting enough for a discussion, that's all it is.

I simply think that Elspeth was pointing out that while all the responses in the thread pointed to no affair, 1/3 of the poll votes pointed to there being an affair and she was inviting those who voted that there was an affair to share their opinions with the rest of us.

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

First of all, if you had a preconcieved conclusion, why ask the question?

I don't, and I didn't. ysbel asked the question based on a discussion in another thread. As she pointed out, I was just saying that the thread so far is very one-sided, which led me to believe that the vote in the poll would be similarly one-sided, and so I was surprised to see that quite a few people had voted the other way. I was just asking those people if they'd also contribute to the thread so we could hear opinions on both sides.

And, although, many have stated their opinions, there is absolutely no concrete evidence that they didn't. Charles knew how to do things discreetly, if he wanted to. He wasn't a fool. There, of course, is no concrete evidence that they did, either. As I said before, all supposition. No one can prove anything either way.

Hence ysbel's wording of the poll. She wasn't asking if people thought there was enough evidence to be certain; she was asking what people believed, based on the amount of evidence that actually exists.

Hope that helps to clarify things.

[Polly]

I know as much (or as little) as anyone else concerning a putative affair between Charles and Tiggy. I do believe, however, that Diana was jealous of Tiggy, and given her influence with and propinquity to Diana's sons, I understand that.

The only 'facts' which I am aware of is that Diana certainly believed that there was/had been an affair after she saw Tiggy wearing a diamond Fleur de Lys brooch. Allegedly, Charles had presented these to his mistresses in the past, and indeed, Diana had received one herself.

Personally, I believe that Tiggy caused unnecessary trouble when she neglected to invite Camilla to Charles' 50th birthday party which she organised on behalf of the young princes. She stated later that it was at William and Harry's direction, which, in my opinion, was about as an unhelpful and as gauche a comment by anyone close to the RF could have made. It was not well done of her and it created unneccesary angst for Camilla.

Diana's behaviour and accusations about the abortion were outrageous and to my mind, spiteful, (even if true), but I wonder who put the idea into her head? That she actually believed it during those awful days of 1995, I believe.

As an aside, I'd like to suggest that Charles' friends have spoken publicly in his defence (quite proper) and also offered virulent criticism of Diana (improper). I well remember watching 'The Diana interview' with Martin Bashir on Panorama, follwed by an invited studio panel to provide comment. In my distinct recollection,one of Charles' friends, a member of parliament, made scandalous remarks about the princess to such an extent that the moderator intervened and stopped him. This was not an isolated incident but I believe it worthy of comment as, almost singularly, this program had a vast international audience.

[jcbcode99]

Originally Posted by Polly

I know as much (or as little) as anyone else concerning a putative affair between Charles and Tiggy. I do believe, however, that Diana was jealous of Tiggy, and given her influence with and propinquity to Diana's sons, I understand that.

The only 'facts' which I am aware of is that Diana certainly believed that there was/had been an affair after she saw Tiggy wearing a diamond Fleur de Lys brooch. Allegedly, Charles had presented these to his mistresses in the past, and indeed, Diana had received one herself.

Personally, I believe that Tiggy caused unnecessary trouble when she neglected to invite Camilla to Charles' 50th birthday party which she organised on behalf of the young princes. She stated later that it was at William and Harry's direction, which, in my opinion, was about as an unhelpful and as gauche a comment by anyone close to the RF could have made. It was not well done of her and it created unneccesary angst for Camilla.

Diana's behaviour and accusations about the abortion were outrageous and to my mind, spiteful, (even if true), but I wonder who put the idea into her head? That she actually believed it during those awful days of 1995, I believe.

As an aside, I'd like to suggest that Charles' friends have spoken publicly in his defence (quite proper) and also offered virulent criticism of Diana (improper). I well remember watching 'The Diana interview' with Martin Bashir on Panorama, follwed by an invited studio panel to provide comment. In my distinct recollection,one of Charles' friends, a member of parliament, made scandalous remarks about the princess to such an extent that the moderator intervened and stopped him. This was not an isolated incident but I believe it worthy of comment as, almost singularly, this program had a vast international audience.

Interesting post--I really enjoyed it, Polly! I have a question--is there any proof that Tiggy wore such a brooch?
The remarks made by Charles' friend--a member of Parliament--what were they? I'm wondering if there was any truth in them and if what he said then is accepted as fact today?

[Charlotte1]

Originally Posted by Polly

Diana's behaviour and accusations about the abortion were outrageous and to my mind, spiteful, (even if true), but I wonder who put the idea into her head? That she actually believed it during those awful days of 1995, I believe.

Why the assumption that someone put the idea into Diana's head that Tiggy was having an affair? Diana was perfectly capable of making that up herself. No-one needed to have planted anything, even her staff were horrified with her as they believed the accusation started with Diana. The fact that Tiggy called out the lawyers and then Diana was pulled into line also suggests that the accusations started with Diana and there was no 'putting ideas into her head' Her friends had testified that Diana did pretty much what she wanted, she wasn't influenced by the advice of others, nor would she listen to their advice. She was headstrong and quite capable of being nasty to those who were in her 'bad books'.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Polly

I well remember watching 'The Diana interview' with Martin Bashir on Panorama, follwed by an invited studio panel to provide comment. In my distinct recollection,one of Charles' friends, a member of parliament, made scandalous remarks about the princess to such an extent that the moderator intervened and stopped him. This was not an isolated incident but I believe it worthy of comment as, almost singularly, this program had a vast international audience.

if you look up the Dianan inquest page, check out the transcript of the questioning of Nicholas Soames - he was the friend of Charles at that panel and explains a bit about it (second part of the questioning, first is Raine Spencer.

Here's the link:

Hearing transcripts: 12 December 2007 - Afternoon session