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  #201  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
You are right Ysbel..sorry. I try to rise above the fray. It just sometimes...it frustrating to read some of the posts about Diana. Some members accuse the so-called Diana fanatics of elevating her to Sainthood..yet treat Camilla as if she was the second coming. I just want to know why she is being judged by a different critieria. But I will be good :)
Thank you Zonk!!! The "Self-Appointed Head Keeper of the Flame for Diana" applauds you!! Sometimes the past in some ways is much nicer and prettier than what we are faced with now.
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  #202  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:35 AM
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OHHHHH Where do I begin:

1) The public mood surrounding the death of Diana - I think at the the most of it was sincere. Like JFK, Jr. Diana was cut off in her youth and will forever by 36. With the role that the media plays in our world..a lot of people think that they know public figures (in this case Diana & JFK, Jr.) because they essentially saw them mature. In Diana's case from a 19 year old to 36 and in JFK Jr.'s case as an infant to 39 (I think that was his age).

2) Charles and Camilla - Skydragon...with a few exceptions..I don't think most people blame them solely for the disintegration of the Charles/Diana/Andrew/Camilla marriages. There is enough blame to go around.

3) Diana's infidelities - if you cheat does it matter why you did it? Essentially cheating is cheating and there is no excuse for it. And that applies to Andrew Parker Bowles, Camilla, Charles and yes Diana. Again, I just find it ironic that Diana's affairs are constanting thrown up...oh..don't forget she cheated him too! No one hasn't said she didn't. I don't know what is worse..finding love/attention/comfort from many people cause you can't get it from your spouse or finding love with your "soul mate" who isn't your spouse.

4) Diana not hanging out with Charles friends - call me crazy. Yes, you really can. BUT if I know my husband is cheating on me with a particular friend, and his group of friends know about and ASSIST him and his mistress by providing covers....well..I am not hangin out at their house either. They are obviously not my friends...so why would I want to spend time with them. But that is just me.
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  #203  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
OHHHHH Where do I begin...
BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO ZONK!! You hit the nail right on the head!!!
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  #204  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:44 AM
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I remember the week before Diana died and there was a tabloid feeding frenzy over her vacation with Dodi and her sons. It got to the point that one newsource claimed papers were offering $1 million dollars for just one candid photo of Diana.

A couple of security experts were quoted as saying the situation with the press was so bad she needed to get more security or something bad would happen. Others reported that she was courting danger by being friendly to the papparazzi one day and then shooing them off the next day. There was a lot of talk about the struggle between Diana and the Queen over security for William and Harry during the vacation.

So when it happened, I was taken off guard like everyone else but I could see how she could get to that point of being killed by being chased by the paparazzi. People were describing the danger that resulted in the tunnel accident before it even happened.

edited to add: About Diana not getting along with Charles' friends, if I don't trust my husband's friends, that is a big warning sign. People do not give up their friends for their significant other and if they do, they resent it. But then again, I judge people by the company they keep. If I don't like my significant other's friends, chances are I don't like him either. I have broken a relationship before because I just couldn't stomach who my boyfriend was hanging out with. One obnoxious friend I can deal with, but a whole group? No, no, no.
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  #205  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I remember the week before Diana died and there was a tabloid feeding frenzy over her vacation with Dodi and her sons.
And interestingly enough things were beginning to appear to be spinning out of control, and Hello! (of all the media!) actually published a rare editorial warning that the Princess needed to calm things down. This issue of Hello! appeared in Australia on the Thursday; by the Sunday afternoon (our time), it was all over. Very prescient.
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  #206  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Warren
And interestingly enough things were beginning to appear to be spinning out of control, and Hello! (of all the media!) actually published a rare editorial warning that the Princess needed to calm things down. This issue of Hello! appeared in Australia on the Thursday; by the Sunday afternoon (our time), it was all over. Very prescient.
Yes, Warren! It was so weird! People had switched from talking about Diana herself to talking about the media frenzy around her! What did it for me was that quote that the tabloids were paying a million dollars a shot for one picture. People go crazy at the thought of an easy million! This was about the same time that she dropped the Royal security. One of the security experts even said the Royal security couldn't handle something like this, they weren't used to dealing with this type of situation.

It all seemed like madness to me!
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  #207  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:25 AM
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I think Diana had some idea of the insanity here. Back in the Panorama interview, she mentioned a photographer who was begging her for a picture because with that money he could set up his family for life. She was offended and quite rightly but I don't think she got the implication that if a picture of her can set up someone's family for life, the stakes were already too high.

Did anyone see the Panorama interview when it was shown recently? I don't remember the exact quote about the photographer. It was one of the more interesting things she said in the interview.
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  #208  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I think Diana had some idea of the insanity here. Back in the Panorama interview, she mentioned a photographer who was begging her for a picture because with that money he could set up his family for life. She was offended and quite rightly but I don't think she got the implication that if a picture of her can set up someone's family for life, the stakes were already too high.

Did anyone see the Panorama interview when it was shown recently? I don't remember the exact quote about the photographer. It was one of the more interesting things she said in the interview.
I have had that interview on tape since it first aired. The photographer said along the lines of: "Hey Di look up, if you do I can send my kids to a better school and you can laugh it off."
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  #209  
Old 11-17-2005, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
OHHHHH Where do I begin:

4) Diana not hanging out with Charles friends - call me crazy. Yes, you really can. BUT if I know my husband is cheating on me with a particular friend, and his group of friends know about and ASSIST him
Zonk, what you are forgetting is that Diana did not like his friends and made no effort with them from the word go, so your reasoning is invalid.
You either like the country or you don't. Charles loves horse riding, Diana was terrified of horses, Charles loved his gundog, Diana didn't like dogs. Charles loves opera, Diana loved modernistic musicals.
It stands to reason that Charles's friends also liked the same things as him and if Diana only felt that they should make the effort to change down to her age level, no wonder they never got on.
I can remember the shock when Diana and Fergie arrived at Andrews stag night, dressed as police women. It was such an undignified thing for them to do.
Both Charles and Diana admitted to their affairs starting in 1986 (this date is disputed by one of the male parties involved). So if the only reason in your book was that they knew about his affair and she didn't like them for that reason, what went wrong in the 5 years before the affair?
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  #210  
Old 11-17-2005, 10:49 AM
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Thank you Zonk!!! The "Self-Appointed Head Keeper of the Flame for Diana" applauds you!!
What? What on earth are you talking about? Can't you seperate emotion and give a statement on the issue? With all due respect, you're not a self-appointed representative for Diana and I find it ridiculous that you feel by saying you are, you'll somehow have some crusade to wage on those who don't care for Diana.

Quote:
And before we knew it, somehow the Queen was to blame. It was very ugly.
That was terrible. It just goes to show that public hysteria gives the press carte blanche to do as they please.

Quote:
Some members accuse the so-called Diana fanatics of elevating her to Sainthood..yet treat Camilla as if she was the second coming.
No - she's a living member of the Royal Family - a future Queen, the wife of the Prince of Wales. She's alive and we're enjoying 'royal watching' her. How can we do that with a dead woman?

Quote:
Diana's infidelities - if you cheat does it matter why you did it?
It does where Charles is concerned. This is what gets me so annoyed. Charles cheated because he wanted to hurt poor angelic innocent Diana - Diana did it because she was neglected and hurting. Rubbish.

Quote:
The photographer said along the lines of: "Hey Di look up, if you do I can send my kids to a better school and you can laugh it off."
How funny...
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  #211  
Old 11-17-2005, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Did anyone see the Panorama interview when it was shown recently? I don't remember the exact quote about the photographer. It was one of the more interesting things she said in the interview.
Yes I watched it and the programme before that told how she had taken 5 hours to achieve the 'tragedy effect' she wanted to portray. How they were not allowed to ask certain questions about her lovers or the Queen mum and if they did, she stonewalled them. How much lying and deceit went into the recording of the interview.
Watching it again, The acting wasn't as good as people remember. IMO
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  #212  
Old 11-17-2005, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tiaraprin
I have had that interview on tape since it first aired. The photographer said along the lines of: "Hey Di look up, if you do I can send my kids to a better school and you can laugh it off."
Thanks tiaraprin. :) I knew there had to be a school involved but I didn't remember the details. If I were Diana, I'd tell him to get a real job!
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  #213  
Old 11-17-2005, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
Upon meeting Prince Charles for the first time she has been widely quoted as propositioning him on the premise of their great grandparents' indiscretions.
According the Gyles Brandreth, who seems to have information from somewhere close to the horses mouth, they were introduced by a previous girlfriend of Charles-- Lucia Something? from Cambridge days, who had found "just the girl" for Charles. Matchmaking seems to have been a habit amongst this set.
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  #214  
Old 11-17-2005, 12:05 PM
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What a very astute post Warren. I have to admit I had never thought about the press deflecting the blame.
Charles Krauthammer had a very interesting op-ed piece on that at the time. He said it was remarkable how the national mood changed from "those murdering paparazzi and the piranhas in the press!" to "that heartless royal family who never cared about Diana, ignoring the feelings of the people and their intrepid champions in the press, who are calling the royal family to account on their behalf!" In a fairly short time the press had recast themselves from the villains of the piece to the noble supporters of the people.

I think another reason why that was so easy to do is that the paparazzi wouldn't have been chasing the car if their photos hadn't been in so much demand and so lucrative to them. The very people who were blaming the paparazzi must have been aware on some level that the whole thing wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been so desperate for steamy photos of Diana and her boyfriend of the moment, so in a way they were complicit in the tragedy. Once the blame had been deflected away from the press and onto the Queen and Prince Charles, those people were no longer at all involved in the situation and could recast themselves as outraged innocent bystanders. It was all very convenient.
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  #215  
Old 11-17-2005, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by una
Matchmaking seems to have been a habit amongst this set.
We all did it didn't we? :)
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  #216  
Old 11-17-2005, 12:10 PM
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We all did it didn't we?
We all do it now. My current boyfriend was introduced to me by friends.
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  #217  
Old 11-17-2005, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth
The very people who were blaming the paparazzi must have been aware on some level that the whole thing wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been so desperate for steamy photos of Diana and her boyfriend of the moment, so in a way they were complicit in the tragedy. Once the blame had been deflected away from the press and onto the Queen and Prince Charles, those people were no longer at all involved in the situation and could recast themselves as outraged innocent bystanders. It was all very convenient.
Do you think they accept it now, or is it easier to blame the royal family still?:)
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  #218  
Old 11-17-2005, 12:19 PM
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Well, I think it's far enough in the past that for the most part there aren't really the same emotions involved. But it's human nature not to take the blame if it can be conveniently deflected!

I remember seeing some of the coverage at the time of her death, and there was this woman saying "I don't know what I'm going to do; I couldn't get enough of her and now she's dead, and the Queen doesn't care and it's all Charles's fault etc etc" and it just struck me as ironic that she didn't seem to stop for a millisecond to think that the "I couldn't get enough of her" was the very reason that all those photographers were hounding Diana.
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  #219  
Old 11-17-2005, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Well, I think it's far enough in the past that for the most part there aren't really the same emotions involved. But it's human nature not to take the blame if it can be conveniently deflected!

I remember seeing some of the coverage at the time of her death, and there was this woman saying "I don't know what I'm going to do; I couldn't get enough of her and now she's dead, and the Queen doesn't care and it's all Charles's fault etc etc" and it just struck me as ironic that she didn't seem to stop for a millisecond to think that the "I couldn't get enough of her" was the very reason that all those photographers were hounding Diana.
that was a pretty powerful statment that women made. She probably didn't even realize it.
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  #220  
Old 11-17-2005, 12:29 PM
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She probably didn't even realize it
Of Course she didn't. She was hysterical. Another piece of footage shows a woman screaming, "Everybody loved Diana! We can't go on!" - someone should have slapped her face.
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