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  #161  
Old 11-16-2005, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
If you really like/love someone, in the begining (in the get to know you phase) you talk about your likes and dislikes. If I don't like to watch American foot ball every Sunday (and I am talking about all the games..thats about 4 to 6 hours) but I watched it while we dating..cause I wanted to spend every minute with you. Five years down the line..don't have a problem cause while you want to do it every Sunday, I don't!
I suppose I'm very lucky, the men I went out with, I met doing the things I did on a regular basis and that I liked.:)
I suppose some people would see it as boring but, if it looked like a mismatch, my Father would intervene and ensure it did not develop into anything as serious as a date.
Something Earl Spencer should perhaps have done.:)
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  #162  
Old 11-16-2005, 05:26 PM
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Then you were very lucky to have a great father. But I found it ironic that you blame Earl Spencer and not the Queen and Prince Phillip. From your previous postings, and please correct me if I am wrong..you seem to blame everyone but Charles.

As we stated before, a lot of factors (infidelity, a lack of mutual understanding, tempermants) led to the dissolution to that marriage.
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  #163  
Old 11-16-2005, 05:30 PM
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Zonk got it right!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Then you were very lucky to have a great father. But I found it ironic that you blame Earl Spencer and not the Queen and Prince Phillip. From your previous postings, and please correct me if I am wrong..you seem to blame everyone but Charles.
Quite Correct Zonk!!! Kudos to you!!
  #164  
Old 11-16-2005, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Then you were very lucky to have a great father. But I found it ironic that you blame Earl Spencer and not the Queen and Prince Phillip. From your previous postings, and please correct me if I am wrong..you seem to blame everyone but Charles.
I believe that there were faults on both sides that caused the breakdown but, I also believe that if Diana had not helped write a book about it all, it would have been a lot less traumatic for their children, I also feel she was totally in the wrong to 'court' the public in her efforts to get at Charles.
I just find it unforgivable, that she would ring the press to tell them where she was and then arrive looking like a tragedy queen. I have to admit I never particularly liked Diana Spencer and from what I saw, did not believe she was the right person for Charles.
A friend lived with a partner who after they moved in together, couldn't bear to allow him to do anything without her, she tried to cut him off from all his old friends with her histrionics. Throwing herself down the stairs to 'make a point' was one of her favourites. He did escape her clutches and her friends and family blamed him for everything.
Everyones excuse for Diana seems to be her youth therefore, her father should have been looking out for her.
  #165  
Old 11-16-2005, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
Quite Correct Zonk!!! Kudos to you!!
Which bit does he get glory for?
  #166  
Old 11-16-2005, 05:59 PM
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Well Skydragon...we are in agreement with the book issue. I, also agree that it was wrong of Diana to assist with the book, which allowed the press let the world know about the problems in their marriage. With that in mind, I totally respect Princess Alexandra and Prince Jochaim of Denmark...nobody knows why they got divorced. BUT I also can't imagine what is like to marry the Prince of Wales and become part of a 1000 year old insititution like the British monarchy and feel like you have no one to support you because the person you thought would (your husband) is not there for you. And I agree that Diana's youth led to a lot of their problems..but the same could be said of Charles's age. He was old enough and knew what he wanted. I honestly think he picked her cause he thought she was malleable. And she wasn't.

Oh..and for future reference...Zonk is a she. That's me :) Zonk was a character the political cartoon Doonesbury.
  #167  
Old 11-16-2005, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
With that in mind, I totally respect Princess Alexandra and Prince Jochaim of Denmark...nobody knows why they got divorced.
Because Alexandra has kept her dignity and her mouth shut and hasn't gone on national television airing the secrets of her marriage bed.
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  #168  
Old 11-16-2005, 06:06 PM
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True..everything happens for a reason. It is my hope that people learn from other's mistakes. In this instance...Alexandra has decided not to share her marital secrets and in the Queen of Denmarktook a totally different approach to handling Alexandra than Queen Elizabeth.
  #169  
Old 11-16-2005, 06:17 PM
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Maybe Elizabeth would have followed Margrethe's style had she not had to suffer the problems Diana brought to the House of Windsor.
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  #170  
Old 11-16-2005, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Maybe Elizabeth would have followed Margrethe's style had she not had to suffer the problems Diana brought to the House of Windsor.
Well said BeatrixFan:) :) :)
  #171  
Old 11-16-2005, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
and feel like you have no one to support you because the person you thought would (your husband) is not there for you. And I agree that Diana's youth led to a lot of their problems..but the same could be said of Charles's age. He was old enough and knew what he wanted. I honestly think he picked her cause he thought she was malleable. And she wasn't.

Oh..and for future reference...Zonk is a she. That's me :) Zonk was a character the political cartoon Doonesbury.
Apologies for missing the s off, it was a typo, I already had you in my mind as a female.

We don't know that Charles did not support her. It must have been terrible for him to have a cloying woman intruding into his life. No one is prepared for the loss of privacy, of doing your own thing, your own way. I think a lot of couples enter into long term relationships without realising that they each have to give up a lot of things. A lot of relationships entered into when you are young, 30 and under, do not last. We know that as you get older, life's experiences change your view on most things.
We do know that she didn't want him to spend so much time with his friends, even though she was invited, they were all too old for her. We know that he did not enjoy nightclubs or her friends, they were all too young.

I think he picked her because he thought they had so much in common but, unlike American football, it had to last longer than 6 hours.:)
  #172  
Old 11-16-2005, 06:45 PM
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Well, I'm 19. I don't go into any relationship expecting it to last for decades. I think you have to be a pretty naive immature sort of person to believe that it would. Why didn't Diana have her lovers, have her apartments, have her pop star guests, have her fame and keep her personal life to herself and out of the press. Instead, what we saw was a panda eyed Diana, batting her eyelashes, bowing her precious little head and giving the finest performance she'd ever given.
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  #173  
Old 11-16-2005, 06:49 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Well, I'm 19. I don't go into any relationship expecting it to last for decades. I think you have to be a pretty naive immature sort of person to believe that it would. Why didn't Diana have her lovers, have her apartments, have her pop star guests, have her fame and keep her personal life to herself and out of the press. Instead, what we saw was a panda eyed Diana, batting her eyelashes, bowing her precious little head and giving the finest performance she'd ever given.
The difference is that you are a sensible chap and I have to say you seem to have a maturity far beyond your years!:)
  #174  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:12 PM
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You know when the can of worms was opened with the media started before we were all even born....when the Queen, spurned on by Prince Philip, allowed the documentary to be made "The Royal Family" in the late 1960's.

That swung the door wide open for mud to be slung at, and criticism to be given, to the Royals.

Why? It tore down the mystical wall once and for all and showed them to be normal, ordinary people.

I bring this up, as sooner or later, given the sociological and cultural changes going on, Diana did do good in many ways for the House of Windsor.

Some of it is not so obvious and other stuff is.

But think where they are today. Had all this not happened.....would they be as modern...would other Royal Princes from others houses have married the women they had?

She set many precedents.....hard act to follow in many respects...

Camilla...she gives Charles the comfort and support he needs.

He has never had a lot self-confidence and likes to play pity, it is evident sometimes in his interviews both today and years ago. His parents, well, she was Queen and Country came first. Philip, given his sad childhood, thought the only way to raise Charles was tough love.

Is it any wonder he and Camilla bonded? She never took that limelight..she walks behind him and lets him shine.

He needs that to heal internally.

Some of what happened when he was married Diana early on WAS NOT HER FAULT.

The press early on blew her up in status and made her this glamorous, young fresh, woman who breathed life into the stuffy House of Windsor.

You must remember how the decade of the 1980's was. The glitz, glamour, and ostentatious way of life...the era of the yuppie and the modern look of women as we know them today came into fruition...THE BIG SHOULDER PADS! :)

ALL THREE DESERVE BLAME...AND IRONICALLY ENOUGH, ALL THREE DESERVE CREDIT.

Out of the ashes will rise a phoenix...and that phoenix is the Royal Family today...much better suited to sustainabilty and survival in the modern world.

Whew...my fingers are tired!! :)
  #175  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Apologies for missing the s off, it was a typo, I already had you in my mind as a female.

We don't know that Charles did not support her. It must have been terrible for him to have a cloying woman intruding into his life. No one is prepared for the loss of privacy, of doing your own thing, your own way. I think a lot of couples enter into long term relationships without realising that they each have to give up a lot of things. A lot of relationships entered into when you are young, 30 and under, do not last. We know that as you get older, life's experiences change your view on most things.
We do know that she didn't want him to spend so much time with his friends, even though she was invited, they were all too old for her. We know that he did not enjoy nightclubs or her friends, they were all too young.

I think he picked her because he thought they had so much in common but, unlike American football, it had to last longer than 6 hours.:)
Minor nitpick...American football lasts three hours...4 at most.
  #176  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:28 PM
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Re:

Quote:
You know when the can of worms was opened with the media started before we were all even born....when the Queen, spurned on by Prince Philip, allowed the documentary to be made "The Royal Family" in the late 1960's.
I agree totally. That series was a mistake. I heard a woman say once, "They don't have much privacy and what they have they are entitled to keep". How true. The Queen buying Prince Edward an iced lolly is very heart warming but it suddenly created this vast craving for more and more. I think the mud slinging came in the late 80s and 90s and the Queen was sacred until 97 and then the flag mess meant she got a bashing. Then they were all fair game - even the Queen Mother.

I have to say that I don't think Diana did a tremendous amount for the Royal Family. She had her way and they had theirs. The Queen certainly wasnt going to get on all fours and tickle African babies in Lesotho. We don't expect her to. She's sacred. Holy. Special. Born to reign over us - Diana wasn't. Diana did things in her way but the Royal Family have stuck to the old way. Camilla is bringing a new style but it'll be William and Harry's wives who will have the decider. They can do things Di's way or they can do things Camilla's way. Seeing that she'll be Queen, I think they'll stay on the right side of Camilla.


I don't think Charles does play pity. He seems to get on with it and its only recently that he's said that he isn't appreciated etc. And that is sad. Call it a mid-life crisis. He's not in an easy position. I think you are right about the relationship Charles and Camilla have when they 'work the crowd'. When they were in America at Ground Zero, Camilla got out of the car and went to walk off in her own direction. But she didn't. She walked around the car and she took her step behind. Diana always outshone and I noticed that at a dinner at 10 Downing St. Diana got out of the car and walked in and left poor Charles climbing out the car looking dazed. It was an awkward moment.
Did they see the Royal House as stuffy? I don't think so - we may do now but not then. My Great-Grandmother was appauled when Diana came onto the scene and I remember talking to her about Di. She said, "That girl upstaged the Queen and I didn't like it". Diana didn't breathe new life into the whole Royal House - she showed them a new way - a way they didn't like and haven't really adopted. William and Harry seem to have got a good balance but turning the RF into a vast media circus won't be a good thing and rather than rising from the flames, they'll be roasting in them.
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  #177  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:37 PM
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I agree for the most part... :)

I think in the 1960's, in swinging London..as they called it, they may have seen it as being a little stuffy.

In the early years of their marriage, the very early years, the media did make the attention go to Diana...at first that was not her, but the media, with their initial thirst for pictures and news.

It will be fascinating to see how Charles reigns and then William.

Everyone in that family is banking on William.

I have no doubt both will make excellent kings, and will do things in their own way and style.

I will say this, I have no doubt Charles and she loved each other very much in their own way that none us will never really know about.

At the end of the day, after all the interviews, books, gossip, whatever being said, that love is something none us will never have access to in knowing about.
  #178  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:37 PM
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When I mention American football lasting 4 to 6 hours..thats at least two games. Never forget an ex boyfriend, when I turned the channel after the two games were..he was like..the other game is still on Channel 4...and this was after 5 hours! I was like...Honey..I love you but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH :)
  #179  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:42 PM
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I agree with Lady Marmalade about the good and bad Diana brought to the Royal Family. I think we all agree that a little mystique goes a long way. Now that people have seen the bad side of too much press/public intrusion into everyday royal life, they will be mindful of its effects.

And I also agree that Charles does his little pity party. And its not recent. As I have stated in the past, as much as I adored Diana, I acknowledge her faults. Charles, for his position, needed a wife who complemented him and not competed with him. And that is Camilla. I just wish things had happened different but everything has a reason. All of them, Charles/Diana and Camilla, were victims of the times. Charles and Camilla because they couldn't marry earlier. And Diana because her relationship with the press.
  #180  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
When I mention American football lasting 4 to 6 hours..thats at least two games. Never forget an ex boyfriend, when I turned the channel after the two games were..he was like..the other game is still on Channel 4...and this was after 5 hours! I was like...Honey..I love you but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH :)
LOL!! That was Skydragon who originally posted it.

But I know what you mean....my husband does the same thing to me!
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