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  #281  
Old 11-17-2005, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
sorry.....<head hanging down>....we were misbehaving while you were away.....
ah, looks like you didn't need my help to sort it out, Lady Marmalade. I think you guys have surprised yourselves...you do listen to each other (after a little Sturm und Drang but that just makes things a little more interesting).

And I think with listening comes respect - not necessarily agreement but respect.
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  #282  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I don't want to seem like a hypocrite. I did go to see the Queen Mother lying-in-state to pay my respects and I never met her - but that was done as a sign of my loyalty to her as a member of the Royal Family and as a past Queen. But Diana wasn't a member of the Royal Family - if anything, she'd damaged it completely. I thought it was disgusting that she was given a state funeral and I thought it was wrong for the Queen to bow to the coffin. Diana was treated as if she were a Dowager Empress and she wasn't. She was a nobody - she had no role in life. She had no job. She had no purpose. She was filling her life with men and bitterness. Why did she get a State Funeral and Princess Margaret didn't? I can understand showing respect and national mourning but not to the point of screaming, wailing and crowing over a complete stranger.
Diana was no saint, nor was she perfect. However, The Queen issued a statement shortly before the decree nisi was granted making it very clear that Diana remained a member of the royal family, with precedence equal to what she enjoyed while married, as the mother of a future king. As the Sovereign and fount of honour, that was the end of that.

The reason Diana did not become "HRH Princess Diana" in her own right was because she insisted on setting her own duties and agenda without oversight from the Palace. Given that demand, the Queen refused to allow her to remain a Royal Highness.

The Prime Minister advised the Queen that a state funeral would have to be granted as the will of the people. The Sovereign reigns, but does not rule. Prince Charles also insisted that Diana be granted full royal honours as the mother of the heir and the spare.
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  #283  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:06 PM
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Given that demand, the Queen refused to allow her to remain a Royal Highness.
Thats untrue. Diana lost the HRH on marriage. Fergie behaved herself and she lost it. It wasn't a personal snub. Its the rules.

Quote:
The Sovereign reigns, but does not rule
Then the Sovereign should remind the Prime Minister of the true power of Kings. The Royal Martyr Charles was the last great King of England.
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  #284  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Then the Sovereign should remind the Prime Minister of the true power of Kings. The Royal Martyr Charles was the last great King of England.
Just remember what happened to Charles and what ensued.
  #285  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:26 PM
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The King lost his head because he lost his faith in his actions. He should have listened to his wife and taken power before it was too late. His son should have ensured that his father's death was avenged and ensured that parliament knew its limitations. He didn't and we now have a puppet Queen.
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  #286  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tiaraprin
Just remember what happened to Charles and what ensued.
I hope you're referring to King Charles I and not the present Prince Charles.
  #287  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
The King lost his head because he lost his faith in his actions. He should have listened to his wife and taken power before it was too late. His son should have ensured that his father's death was avenged and ensured that parliament knew its limitations. He didn't and we now have a puppet Queen.
Charles I did not lose faith in his actions, BeatrixFan. That was one king that was never without self-confidence. I have a hard time imagining Charles II as an avenging prince Hamlet though. ;p

Ah, the downfall of the Kings of England came when Parliament elected George I. He was old, German, didn't speak a word of English and didn't care. Just thought an extra throne with more money would be good. They took advantage of it and ran with the power.

The fact that all the Kings of Europe later fell to porphyria didn't exactly support the ideal of government by the Divine Right of Kings.
  #288  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Thats untrue. Diana lost the HRH on marriage. Fergie behaved herself and she lost it. It wasn't a personal snub. Its the rules.
BeatrixFan, I think you meant on divorce not marriage but at any case, I think you're right here.
  #289  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:36 PM
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Charles I did not lose faith in his actions, BeatrixFan. That was one king that was never without self-confidence
He did. He allowed himself to be humiliated by an illegal court that cost him his life. He should have dissolved parliament and had Cromwells head for treason. Queen Henrietta Maria told him to French help and he didn't. And he paid for it and we are still paying for it now. That statue of Cromwell outside the Houses of Parliament is an insult to the Sovereign and should be torn down.
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  #290  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:36 PM
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BeatrixFan, I think you meant on divorce not marriage but at any case, I think you're right here
That is indeed what I meant. Sorry about that all.
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  #291  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Queen Henrietta Maria told him to French help and he didn't. And he paid for it and we are still paying for it now.
Ah, I see, I saw it as arrogance, like, a husband refusing to ask for directions or call for a plumber though the toilet is overflowing.

Poor Henrietta Marie, I can definitely relate to that!
  #292  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:06 PM
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Well, we do know Diana herself agreed to surrender the rank of Royal Highness at the beginning of the negotiations because her main concern at the time was ensuring a large monetary divorce settlement. Later, she changed her mind about it and decided she wanted to remain a Royal Highness, but for whatever the reasons, her request was declined.
  #293  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:34 PM
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Then the Sovereign should remind the Prime Minister of the true power of Kings.
The true power of Kings is pretty minor these days, as I'm sure the Prime Minister is well aware. Diana meant a great deal to a lot of people, and it would have been foolish of the royal family to accede to the Spencers' demand for a private funeral as a Spencer rather than as a member of the royal family, which, as branchg pointed out, is what she was, lack of HRH notwithstanding.
  #294  
Old 11-17-2005, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I hope you're referring to King Charles I and not the present Prince Charles.
I was referring to Charles I. That man had no clue on how to gain the respect of his people and run the country properly. That is what cost him his head.
  #295  
Old 11-18-2005, 01:25 AM
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Ah...but Diana was only an HRH due to her marriage. When she divorced, she ceded to be one. The style was not part of the package as only Her Majesty, through new letters of patent, could have allowed her to keep the style HRH.

Instead, she issued new letters, and in my opinion not really needed as when a person not born with the style HRH marries an HRH, then divorces, he or she would lose it anyway.

And yes, the Queen made sure, as the mother of a future king, she was still noted as a member of the royal family.

That is not my personal opinion, but rather a plain fact taken from the Queen's own decision at the time in 1996.
  #296  
Old 11-18-2005, 06:51 AM
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That man had no clue on how to gain the respect of his people and run the country properly.
You don't run a country on respect. You run a country by making sure people know their place. Charles did that. If he had taken French help, he could have ruled absolute for the rest of his life, with the line of Kings never being broken by Cromwell.

Is there a Charles I thread?
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  #297  
Old 11-18-2005, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Is there a Charles I thread?
Perhaps you should start one BeatrixFan! It could be quite interesting.
  #298  
Old 11-19-2005, 06:34 AM
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Charles, Camilla, William and Harry are all happy and getting on well, perhaps we should all take our lead from them.
If Harry and William accept Camilla, as they clearly do, who are we to judge?
  #299  
Old 11-19-2005, 09:58 AM
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Hear, hear!
  #300  
Old 11-24-2005, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Charles, Camilla, William and Harry are all happy and getting on well, perhaps we should all take our lead from them.
If Harry and William accept Camilla, as they clearly do, who are we to judge?
William and Harry are in a much different position than any of us are. They love their father and their mother. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors and what they are tolerating and truly feeling about it all. The famous "stiff upper lip" may be on display. We don't know how happy they truly are and how much of it is to bolster their father.
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