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  #141  
Old 07-10-2005, 04:52 PM
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Amen to that lashinka!! Well said!!
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  #142  
Old 07-10-2005, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lashinka2002
Although I believe Diana would have moved on with her life and may have remarried possibly even having more children I highly doubt that she would have embraced the idea of Charles marrying Camilla. Diana may have embraced a marraige for Charles had it been any other woman than Camilla simply put not the one he carried on with while he was married to her. I think she would have found it publicly humiliating; to be replaced in the BRF by the the mistress that all the world knew of. :( Just imagine the tension at family gatherings for thier children. (Example: Williams graduation)

If Diana were alive do you really think the public would have supported Charles' & Camilla's union? Even so long after her death I don't - mega public outrage! As a matter a fact I don't see the queen ever considering a marraige for Charles & Camilla at all if Diana were alive.

Since Diana has passed away of course its a different situation but to think that she would be fine and dandy today with the present situation is in my opinion ridiculous.
We're all entitled to our opinions. At the end of her life, I believe Diana had accepted Camilla as being a discreet and loyal companion to Charles (which she commented on privately to mutual friends) and she stated "Charles should make an honest woman of her". With time, I think Diana would have accepted a marriage, as did Princes William and Harry, provided her position in the royal family had remained paramount as the mother of a future king.

There is no question in my mind that had Diana had lived, she would eventually have been granted her own royal title and rank as HRH by the Queen upon returning to official duties. This was already well underway when she died and had the support of Tony Blair and the Government. The public would have accepted a marriage if Diana was seen to have embraced it and so would the Queen.

I guess we'll never know.
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  #143  
Old 07-10-2005, 05:30 PM
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To many around the world, Camilla is NOT and NEVER will be the Princess of Wales or Queen of England. Anyone who would curtsey to her, is beyond my comprehension.
To far more people than you might suppose, the matter is one of supreme indifference. In deference to the people in the United Kingdom who associate the title Princess of Wales with Diana, Camilla has chosen to use another of her titles. If people wish to delude themselves into thinking that somehow she isn't Princess of Wales in fact, they're perfectly welcome to do so, of course, but it doesn't change the fact.


Quote:
Irregardless of the law, it is the people who ultimately make the decision about monarchy and who and what they like about it. A British subject who doesn't like Camilla shouldn't have to curtsey to her or any member of the royal family. I thank God I am an American!
No British citizen (yes, we're citizens) HAS to curtsey to any of the royal family, including the Queen. Opinion in the United Kingdom is obviously divided about Camilla, but if she continues to perform her public duties in a considerate and cheerful way, and especially if she continues to have what seems to be a very beneficial effect on Charles, a lot of people are going to warm to her as time goes on. Obviously the hard-core Diana worshippers won't appreciate anything she does and would wish her to come to some sort of bad ending rather than taking her place as Charles's wife, but such people are going to be in an increasingly small minority over the years if Camilla and Charles carry on the way they've been going.
  #144  
Old 07-11-2005, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by branchg
We're all entitled to our opinions. At the end of her life, I believe Diana had accepted Camilla as being a discreet and loyal companion to Charles (which she commented on privately to mutual friends) and she stated "Charles should make an honest woman of her". With time, I think Diana would have accepted a marriage, as did Princes William and Harry, provided her position in the royal family had remained paramount as the mother of a future king.

There is no question in my mind that had Diana had lived, she would eventually have been granted her own royal title and rank as HRH by the Queen upon returning to official duties. This was already well underway when she died and had the support of Tony Blair and the Government. The public would have accepted a marriage if Diana was seen to have embraced it and so would the Queen.

I guess we'll never know.

Really?? I've never heard that she had commented about Camilla in any positive manor before. Please tell me your source? My curiosity is peaked.

In my experience children tend to accept partners for thier parents much more easily because in the end they have that unconditional love for them and want only thier happiness. Ex-spouses on the other hand tend to take much more convincing. I believe Diana would have harboured resentment if not publically then most surely privately until the end of her days. The wounds over time may have healed but the scars would have always remained.

Geez, why take the HRH away only to give it back? Pretty silly!
Diana would not have accepted any royal rank lesser than what Camilla's rank is today. She still would have been aside from the Queen "first lady" poor Charles would have still remained unnoticed.
  #145  
Old 07-11-2005, 04:07 AM
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I completely agree!!!
  #146  
Old 07-11-2005, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by lashinka2002
Really?? I've never heard that she had commented about Camilla in any positive manor before. Please tell me your source? My curiosity is peaked.

In my experience children tend to accept partners for thier parents much more easily because in the end they have that unconditional love for them and want only thier happiness. Ex-spouses on the other hand tend to take much more convincing. I believe Diana would have harboured resentment if not publically then most surely privately until the end of her days. The wounds over time may have healed but the scars would have always remained.

Geez, why take the HRH away only to give it back? Pretty silly!
Diana would not have accepted any royal rank lesser than what Camilla's rank is today. She still would have been aside from the Queen "first lady" poor Charles would have still remained unnoticed.
By many accounts, the Queen, in fact, was willing to confer the style of HRH to Diana in her own right as a princess of the UK ("HRH Princess Diana") in addition to confirming her precedence as the third lady in the land (the same position she held while married). If true, this was certainly generous on the Queen's part, given Diana's decision early on to reliniquish the style (later denied by the Princess).

However, it seems that Diana overplayed her hand by insisting on HRH Diana, Princess of Wales instead, which was refused. She also declined to work in cooperation with the Palace in determining her role and public duties, which the Queen felt was critical if Diana wished to remain Her Royal Highness after the divorce. So, in the end, the Queen told Diana she could not remain HRH.
  #147  
Old 07-11-2005, 06:59 PM
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If Diana were still alive I don't think the Queen would allow Charles to marry Camilla. She maybe his mother, but the Queen would have stopped that in its tracks. I wish Camilla and Charles the best of luck as husband and wife.

The reason people have such a hard time accepting Camilla is because she has never, (at least to my knowledge) addressed her relationship with Charles while he was married to Diana. Saying a prayer in the church is not addressing the issue. Camilla, now being a public figure should address this, I think for her sake and for her future in the monarchy. She doesn't have to beat herself up about but she should address it because she will be a consort, as such that will hang over her head for the rest of her life. A lot of people get the impression that she is not even sorry or even it was wrong, that it was done only because she was in love. As much as we might say "lets give them a break" I think a lot of us would like to hear her side of the story and have her explain(justify) what happened. Does she realize how unhappy she made Diana? etc..
Thats my opinion at least.
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  #148  
Old 07-11-2005, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseMary
If Diana were still alive I don't think the Queen would allow Charles to marry Camilla. She maybe his mother, but the Queen would have stopped that in its tracks. I wish Camilla and Charles the best of luck as husband and wife.

The reason people have such a hard time accepting Camilla is because she has never, (at least to my knowledge) addressed her relationship with Charles while he was married to Diana. Saying a prayer in the church is not addressing the issue. Camilla, now being a public figure should address this, I think for her sake and for her future in the monarchy. She doesn't have to beat herself up about but she should address it because she will be a consort, as such that will hang over her head for the rest of her life. A lot of people get the impression that she is not even sorry or even it was wrong, that it was done only because she was in love. As much as we might say "lets give them a break" I think a lot of us would like to hear her side of the story and have her explain(justify) what happened. Does she realize how unhappy she made Diana? etc..
Thats my opinion at least.
Well, I think that's a bit unfair since Diana herself later admitted that both she and Charles were equally responsible for the failure of the marriage. Diana also was having affairs, so I fail to see why Camilla should be condemned for the rest of her life when Diana was doing the same thing.

In my opinion, Diana made Diana unhappy. If you're not happy on the inside, your relationships with others will suffer. Diana had serious emotional problems long before marrying Charles and these problems manifested during their marriage. She was too young to marry the Prince of Wales and hadn't really gotten herself together.
  #149  
Old 07-11-2005, 11:29 PM
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You know I don't think Diana's affairs contributed to the end of the marriage. Charles simply did not care.
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  #150  
Old 07-11-2005, 11:37 PM
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I think branchg is saying that Diana's own problems contributed to the end of the marriage, not necessarily that her affairs did. The point is that people do seem to be condemning Charles and Camilla for having an affair while glossing over the fact that Diana did likewise. Both Charles and Diana had their other relationships because they were unhappy in their marriage; that unhappiness doesn't seem to have been solely Charles's fault.
  #151  
Old 07-11-2005, 11:39 PM
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Well I think Diana's immaturity did contribute to the end of the marriage. I guess camilla picked a perfect one...ANyway yeah both Diana and Charles are at fault.
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  #152  
Old 07-12-2005, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
By many accounts, the Queen, in fact, was willing to confer the style of HRH to Diana in her own right as a princess of the UK ("HRH Princess Diana") in addition to confirming her precedence as the third lady in the land (the same position she held while married). If true, this was certainly generous on the Queen's part, given Diana's decision early on to reliniquish the style (later denied by the Princess).

However, it seems that Diana overplayed her hand by insisting on HRH Diana, Princess of Wales instead, which was refused. She also declined to work in cooperation with the Palace in determining her role and public duties, which the Queen felt was critical if Diana wished to remain Her Royal Highness after the divorce. So, in the end, the Queen told Diana she could not remain HRH.
I'm sure that if Diana insisted on HRH Diana, Princess of Wales she had her own personal reasons for doing so. If she declined to work in cooperation with the Palace in regards to her duties I'm positive there are other very good reasons that we the public may not be aware of.
  #153  
Old 07-12-2005, 01:43 AM
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According to her private secretary, Partick Jephson, he was trying to get her office to work more closely with the Queen's office so that she'd have some substance behind her in her dealings with Charles, but unfirtunately by then it seemed as though she was beyond being able to trust anybody in the Household.
  #154  
Old 07-12-2005, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I think branchg is saying that Diana's own problems contributed to the end of the marriage, not necessarily that her affairs did. The point is that people do seem to be condemning Charles and Camilla for having an affair while glossing over the fact that Diana did likewise. Both Charles and Diana had their other relationships because they were unhappy in their marriage; that unhappiness doesn't seem to have been solely Charles's fault.

BUT the majority of the evidence shows Diana did not start her affair with James Hewitt UNTIL Charles went back to Camilla. At least she wasn't the first adulterous one. Perhaps it is a minor point, but at least it shows Diana had more respect for her marriage than Charles did. Charles thought he could exercise the royal priviledge of mistresses and Diana wouldn't do anything. Bravo to her for standing up and putting her foot down!! Diana was no Queen Alexandra and suffered in silence, which was a good thing. Her choice in men to have affairs with however, were bad. I wish she could have held out and not had an affair, but with all the horror she was faced with in marrying Charles, who could blame her?
  #155  
Old 07-12-2005, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lashinka2002
I'm sure that if Diana insisted on HRH Diana, Princess of Wales she had her own personal reasons for doing so. If she declined to work in cooperation with the Palace in regards to her duties I'm positive there are other very good reasons that we the public may not be aware of.
Yes, she did. Diana wanted to remain Princess of Wales, which the Queen felt was inappropriate for a former wife of the Prince of Wales. It would have been without precedent for Diana to retain a style held only through marriage to Prince Charles. That's why the Queen offered to make her a princess of the UK with the style of HRH in her own right, which was certainly very honourable. Diana would then have retained her own royal rank, even if she remarried in the future.

Refusing to work with the Palace seems to me to be shortsighted. Why should Diana remain a Royal Highness if she wanted to set her own agenda and duties as she saw fit? It doesn't work that way and Diana knew it. Either you are willing to do your duty to the Crown or you're not.
  #156  
Old 07-12-2005, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
BUT the majority of the evidence shows Diana did not start her affair with James Hewitt UNTIL Charles went back to Camilla. At least she wasn't the first adulterous one. Perhaps it is a minor point, but at least it shows Diana had more respect for her marriage than Charles did.
Isn't that rather a moot point? That someone had an affair after the other person in the marriage had already commenced an affair means that the person's affair is not as bad as the first person's affair? Another relationship while you are married is an affair, period. It's irrelevant who broke the marital vows first, or how long respective affairs lasted, whether it was a one-night stand or an affair that lasted several years. In the eyes of God, an affair is an affair is an affair no matter how else you clean it up. If Diana really respected her marriage to Charles she wouldn't have had any affairs.
  #157  
Old 07-12-2005, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lashinka2002
Ahh, but as the mother of the future king should not that title have been granted? Married or not to the prince of wales she would always be the mother of the future soverign.

Diana felt that the BRF was mocking her for her emotions and that they did not take her concerns duty wise seriously. She also felt that them setting her "agenda" was possibly another way of controlling her. Are you sure the palace wanted to work with her or watch and control her?
Charles is HRH the Prince of Wales, not Diana. She was not royal by birth, but by marriage, and her style and title was as a result of it, not the other way around.

Making someone who is only royal by marriage a princess after a divorce with precedence before the daughter, grandaughters and sister of the Sovereign, all princesses of the blood royal, is an unprecedented and generous honour.

Had Diana accepted it, she would have been HRH Princess Diana after the divorce, rather than Diana, Princess of Wales, which was the style of a divorced wife of a peer. She lost her royal rank, so I don't understand how you can possibly believe the Queen could have offered anything better.
  #158  
Old 07-12-2005, 10:38 PM
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Not many ordinary women would want to keep the name of their ex-husbands, especially with their marriage ending in such a public and acrimonious manner. That Diana even wanted to keep the title at all points to the benefits of being associated with the RF. It would seem that she had stayed in the marriage for as long as she did because she didn't want to loose the privileges. It's odd now so many people takes to Diana's view that the RF was controlling, yet in her own bio, they came off as cold and distant, and bit loony. I can't imagine a stand-offish, slighly unhinged sort of person as controlling.
  #159  
Old 07-13-2005, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
To far more people than you might suppose, the matter is one of supreme indifference. In deference to the people in the United Kingdom who associate the title Princess of Wales with Diana, Camilla has chosen to use another of her titles. If people wish to delude themselves into thinking that somehow she isn't Princess of Wales in fact, they're perfectly welcome to do so, of course, but it doesn't change the fact.

I completely agree with that. Just because Camilla is not pretty as Diana was, it doesn't mean she could be denied all the time. At least Cammila was able to save her love to " a man" for so many years.
  #160  
Old 07-14-2005, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Well, I think that's a bit unfair since Diana herself later admitted that both she and Charles were equally responsible for the failure of the marriage. Diana also was having affairs, so I fail to see why Camilla should be condemned for the rest of her life when Diana was doing the same thing.

In my opinion, Diana made Diana unhappy. If you're not happy on the inside, your relationships with others will suffer. Diana had serious emotional problems long before marrying Charles and these problems manifested during their marriage. She was too young to marry the Prince of Wales and hadn't really gotten herself together.
So it wouldn't make you sad if you realized your husband was cheating on you? I am not saying Diana was a saint but I am saying that Camilla has A LOT of public relations work to do and telling her side of the story in some form would certainly do lots of good. Charles's affair had a lot to do with Diana's unhappiness so yeah, you bet Camilla should have some thinking going on up there.
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