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  #41  
Old 06-24-2017, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
A note about Philip and freemasonry - he promised George VI that he would join and did so, in 1953. The King had been dead for over a year when he joined but believing that having made a promise he had to keep it he decided to join. He went to one meeting - his initiation and hasn't been since.

Charles was more influenced by Mountbatten who was very anti-Freemasons - one reason I have heard was that he was blackballed from joining a lodge and so turned anti although his father and brother had both been members. Not sure exactly how true the story about the blackballing is but it is certainly one I have heard from my masonic friends.
From a Masonic website -
HRH The Rt Hon. Lord Louis Mountbatten, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma, Viceroy of India, Admiral of the Fleet, KG, PC, GCB, OM, GCSI, GCIE, GCVO, DSO

On 5 December 1952 His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, consort of the new Queen Elizabeth II, as yet uncrowned, was initiated into the secrets of Freemasonry by the Worshipful Master of Navy Lodge No 2612. He joined against his will. His uncle, Earl Mountbatten of Burma, was - in the words of an impeccable source close to the Royal Family - 'fiercely opposed' to Freemasonry, and had strongly advised Philip to have nothing to do with it. But in 1947 when Philip became engaged to Princess Elizabeth, his future father-in-law King George VI had made it plain that he expected any husband of his daughter to maintain the tradition of royal patronage of Freemasonry. George was an ardent Mason and finally extracted a promise from Philip to join the Brotherhood. George died before Philip was able to fulfil the promise, but despite his own reservations (he regarded the whole thing as a joke) and his uncle's hostility, he felt bound to honour his promise to the dead King.

But having been initiated to Freemasonry as an Entered Apprentice, Philip felt honour was satisfied and he was free to act as he chose - which was to forget the whole business as quickly as possible. And while still nominally a member of the Brotherhood, the Duke has taken no active part for thirty years and has refused all invitations to climb the masonic ladder and achieve grand rank.

Stephen Knight
The Brotherhood
Grafton Books, London, 1983
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  #42  
Old 06-24-2017, 04:42 AM
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Actually, I don't think that the statement outlined in red is from a Masonic website, or if it is it is perhaps to debunk Knight.

I'm a longterm true crime buff and Stephen Knight, if it's the Stephen Knight I'm thinking of, wrote a book on the Jack the Ripper murders and linked them with a Dr Gull, a very well known Victorian physician, who had treated some of the BRF. Dr Gull was a prominent Freemason and in Knight's book 'Jack the Ripper: The Final Solution' (it wasn't) he proposed that some of the JTR murders were committed according to Masonic ritual. They weren't.

I believe Knight, who has been dead now for many years, became fascinated with Freemasonry after he wrote on JTR (The Final Solution' was a bestseller) and subsequently produced the book on Freemasonry, The Brotherhood.

I have no evidence to present on whether Knight's assertions about Prince Philip and Lord Mounbatten are true or not. However 'The Final Solution' was replete with errors, leaving out factual information that went against his theory, etc, and in fact the book was debunked by research undertaken by ripperologists in the years afterwards.
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  #43  
Old 06-24-2017, 05:41 AM
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Charles isn't a mason is he? I thought he didn't like the whole idea nad didn't join it.
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  #44  
Old 06-24-2017, 05:59 AM
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No, he's not, and Prince Philip only attended one meeting, his initiation into the Order. However, Lady Nimue is investigating as to whether some Freemasons may have become involved with Charles's life and image in other ways. See first post.
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  #45  
Old 06-24-2017, 06:16 AM
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I just saw this thread crop up as a new one.. and looked at a post or 2.
just had a look at the first few posts.
Not at all. The whole thing was mostly to do with newspaper sales, and it exploited the very bad marriage of C and Diana. but nonsense to think that freemasons were trying undermine him. And C and Diana were boht foolish enough to try and use the press, which "used them".
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  #46  
Old 06-24-2017, 07:48 AM
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This may or may not fit in and mesh with the ongoing discussion but when reading Curryong's very precise and detailed post about Charles' activities in the early 1980s from Sally Bedell-Smith's biography, something hit me.

It seemed that from 1982 through 1984 Charles was quite a busy man. He was championing and learning about various different things from organic farming to agriculture and architecture and putting his thoughts together on them. I do have to chuckle when it was stated he was "out there" when it came to genetically modified organisms. Go into any store today and "GMO free" is a label frequently seen on packages. I guess back then, people regarded Charles as more of a visionary than someone to take seriously. But I digress.

This time frame was also the time frame where Diana's unhappiness in the marriage started to manifest itself. She often complained that Charles was "too busy" for her. He not only had his role of The Prince of Wales but also was very deeply involved in his own pursuits as we're seeing. Cause and effect. Could it be that these alternative ideas and interest were actually at the root of the problems in the marriage?

Now, back to the Freemasons. I've seen it stated a few places that Philip was initiated into the society but also stated that he didn't participate in their activities. Perhaps it was Philip's ideas on the society that influenced his son to not want any part of it? We'll never know.

Another aspect that I'd like to bring up is that, as I've mentioned, there are scores and scores of books and opinions that have been written about the Freemason and their lodges and their activities and even their "intentions". A lot of where an author will get his opinions and what information he or she seeks out and publishes is reflected in their own lives and biographies. In the first post, Renate Riemeck is listed as the author. Now this is one lady that has had a very interesting lifetime. I'm not going to get into it here but a quick search for information about her could be a real eye opener. It helps to understand why the information she presents is important to her. Its the same with Charles and his book "Harmony". The views presented in Harmony reflect the man and his visions and his beliefs.
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  #47  
Old 06-24-2017, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
In the first post, Renate Riemeck is listed as the author. Now this is one lady that has had a very interesting lifetime. I'm not going to get into it here but a quick search for information about her could be a real eye opener. It helps to understand why the information she presents is important to her. Its the same with Charles and his book "Harmony". The views presented in Harmony reflect the man and his visions and his beliefs.
Renate Riemeck is the author of a history (which I cite) on events leading-up to the First World War. My quotes are taken from another book whose title and author I did not identify. I was given the un-identified book to read after a conversation in which Renate Riemeck's history book was being discussed.

Thank you for the heads-up about Renate Riemeck. I will google her.

Osipi, I see what you mean about Renate Riemeck. Very unusual. What to make of it? It would make the second book I was handed (and which I have not identified) even more puzzling. Do not see the connection. Oh well. The bit about Charles and the bad press was what got me going, and continues to be a fascination for me since I've been around PR and public image stuff most of my life. Discussion remains valid regardless of beginnings. IMO.

LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renate_Riemeck
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  #48  
Old 06-24-2017, 02:42 PM
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Oh I agree. This is a very interesting topic of discussion and I'm enjoying it immensely.

One thing that I did pick up from looking through things is that although Freemasonry is a international brotherhood, each lodge is independent with their own charters and such and each has its own Grand Master. I'm sure there are things that they do that represent the society as a whole but like all Catholic churches are their own parish, yet headed by Rome, a lodge in England may be vastly different from a lodge in Scotland (in fact they have two separate rites. Scottish Rites and York Rites). There's a Scottish rite temple in D.C. here and theres a York Rite temple here in D.C. also.

I think it would be tough to actually pin down just where Freemasonry would have had effect on Charles' publicity as there may have been one lodge with a grudge against Charles because of a member or certain percentage of membership. We'd have to dig to find it. There are masonic lodges solely for law enforcement even if what I read is replaying in my mind right. There's even been headlines made about law enforcement and masonic membership recently.

Sadiq Khan refuses to make London police declare if they are Freemasons after Hillsborough questions raised | The Independent

With Freemasonry continuing to remain a very closed knit and closed mouth organization its pretty hard to pin down Freemasonry as a whole behind something.

I did have an experience once where, for some reason, my email address got confused with a Mason's. I started getting emails from a lodge with information on meetings, minutes and all kinds of things I knew I shouldn't be getting. Figuring it was a mistake, I just deleted them After they had continued for a while, I replied to one stating that they very much had a wrong address and I was not in any way, shape or form connected to Freemasonry. The reply was kind of curt and demanding that I make sure that anything I had received was properly destroyed and was not to be passed on to anyone. They really don't cotton to outsiders too much at all.

I've met many masons that found it to be a good old boy's club and I've met masons who insist the higher degrees are the Illuminati dead set on bringing in a New World Order and have extensive power and influence. The thing about it is that with it being so "secret", its easy to pin almost any kind of an opinion on it.

Exploring Freemasonry, its history and what it is and what it isn't and who thinks what about it could take a lifetime.
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  #49  
Old 06-25-2017, 02:53 AM
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Osiipi I don't know mcuh about Mason though I did once visit a Masonic hall years ago. I think many people are in it for the contacts and maybe a few take it more seriously, but frankly it is ridiculous ot think that they are goig to give bad publicity to the future king. Charles got bad Publicity in the 80s because of the combination fo his own stupidity, the newspapers' desire for profits and the accident of his bad marriage. Charles was less popular in the 80s because his marriage was goig south, and at the tiem Di was mega popular and the press were going to praise her and rubbish him. And he did act stupidly as well. When Di began to act more stupdily, SHE got more bad press...
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Old 06-25-2017, 03:58 AM
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I had relatives who were masons. At least one was a deeply religious Methodist. He was a businessman in a large country town and he and his colleagues became Masons because it gave extra business contacts.

From what I've read the vast majority of Scotland Yard officials were Masons at one time. However, I've never read that it affected their work.

There was also a famous classic murder case in England in which the accused, a Mason, gave a secret signal to the Judge hearing his case on a capital charge. The judge was upset but still sentenced him to death.

I have never heard of Masons colluding together to bring down a prominent public figure. Nor do I believe that they would want to do so as far as Charles was concerned. He has no real power. I think Charles's 'bad' image in the Press in the 1980s and 1990s was a combination of a number of factors, some of which has been discussed.
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Old 06-25-2017, 05:13 AM
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If Charles' press was ever controlled by a Mason, it was controlled by a Mason or a group of Masons for their own agenda. Maybe a few of them were architects that were furious with Charles about the "monstrous carbuncle" speech, took it personally and put suggestions into other Masons that just happened to be in the press or tabloid business.

It would work that way with a bunch of Catholics, a bunch of Starbuck's punch card holders or any organization where birds of a feather flock together. We see the divisiveness of how different groups of different people work against each other everyday. One just has to look into the political arena to see prime examples.
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  #52  
Old 06-25-2017, 06:16 AM
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oh come now. Lots of architects and people in the building world were annoyed at what charles said. Polticans were annoyed at what he said at times.
Scientists were annoyed at his attacks on conventional medicine or GM crops. He shoots his mouth off too much. He did not need a masonic bunch of people to rouse up annoyance.. against him. And As Curry has said there's no evidence of Masons ever "conspiring to bring someone down"...
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:21 AM
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oh come now. Lots of architects and people in the building world were annoyed at what charles said. Polticans were annoyed at what he said at times.
Scientists were annoyed at his attacks on conventional medicine or GM crops. He shoots his mouth off too much. He did not need a masonic bunch of people to rouse up annoyance.. against him. And As Curry has said there's no evidence of Masons ever "conspiring to bring someone down"...
Exactly. Charles ruffled feathers. His ideas were (and still are) visionary and many have proven to be right on the money.

That's exactly my point I was trying to make in my post. No specific society or organization was "out to get him".
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